Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

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phialphadelta
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Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby phialphadelta » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:20 am

Thomas jefferson school of law in San diego is about to be put on probation soon.


July 2011 California Bar Exam

In July 2011, the TJSL California first-time bar pass rate was only 33.3% (42 of 126). This is one of the lowest
pass rates in the school’s history and was consistent across the school’s own internal program and other commercial
programs (primarily BarBri). For those who enrolled in TJSL’s internal Full Program, the pass rate was 31.1% (14
of 45); for those who enrolled in other programs, the pass rate was 34.6% (28 of 81).


February 2011 California Bar Exam

In February 2011, the TJSL California first-time bar pass rate was only 44.9% (22 of 49). This too was a low bar
pass rate. For those who enrolled in TJSL’s internal Full Program, the pass rate was considerably higher at 60% (12
of 20); for those who enrolled in other programs, the pass rate was 34.5% (10 of 29). In other words, the pass rate
for other programs was steady at approximately 35% across the year.


Thomas Jefferson school of law passage rates


2006**70.30%
2007**65.26%
2008**75.08%
2009- 48.15%
2010- 55.93%
2011- 33%




All blame should be placed on Dean Eric Mitnick since he is the one who okays the class curriculum at TJSL.

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Grizz
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:22 am

womp womp

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:26 am

Interesting, especially because I was under the impression that TJSL was one of the TTTTs that taught to the bar.

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Grizz
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:27 am

Whatever their new building is super nice.

BeautifulSW
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby BeautifulSW » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:28 am

This is what caused LaVerne to lose out on full ABA approval. This is also what caused Western State to lose its ABA approval, however temporarily. At one point, low Bar passage rates caused Whittier and Golden Gate to be placed on probationary status. I don't know if the ABA Section on Legal Education has actually begun to grow teeth after the WSU debacle.

But the February exam usually has lower pass rates than the July exam so we'll see.

WSJ_Law
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby WSJ_Law » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:45 pm

It's still a good school even though it had a bad year for barzam takers. These fluctuations are common even in the T14. If I was a 0L, I wouldn't let something trivial like the bar results deter me from applying and strongly considering TJSL. One of the few schools I would recommend ITE.

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AreJay711
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:51 pm

2006**70.30%
2007**65.26%
2008**75.08%
2009- 48.15%
2010- 55.93%
2011- 33%


lol how does that happen?

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RVP11
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby RVP11 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:56 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:It's still a good school even though it had a bad year for barzam takers. These fluctuations are common even in the T14. If I was a 0L, I wouldn't let something trivial like the bar results deter me from applying and strongly considering TJSL. One of the few schools I would recommend ITE.


Going from 25% failing to 66% failing is not a "common" fluctuation at any tier of school, much less at a T14.

If a T14 suddenly went from a 90% pass rate to a 70% pass rate (a proportional drop to TJSL) there would be a huge uproar. It would be unprecedented.

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Flash
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Flash » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:19 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:It's still a good school even though it had a bad year for barzam takers. These fluctuations are common even in the T14. If I was a 0L, I wouldn't let something trivial like the bar results deter me from applying and strongly considering TJSL. One of the few schools I would recommend ITE.

Image

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RVP11
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby RVP11 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:38 pm

Flash wrote:
WSJ_Law wrote:It's still a good school even though it had a bad year for barzam takers. These fluctuations are common even in the T14. If I was a 0L, I wouldn't let something trivial like the bar results deter me from applying and strongly considering TJSL. One of the few schools I would recommend ITE.

Image


You'd think obvious trolls would actually be funny.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Jah'rakal » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:55 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:It's still a good school even though it had a bad year for barzam takers. These fluctuations are common even in the T14. If I was a 0L, I wouldn't let something trivial like the bar results deter me from applying and strongly considering TJSL. One of the few schools I would recommend ITE.


what is wsj law?

bahari2010
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby bahari2010 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:20 am

The ABA Section on Legal Education is a total joke...it looks out for its law schools not the students...never, ever join the ABA it doesn't represent most lawyers...

BJD2015
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby BJD2015 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:40 am

...TJSL isn't going to be placed on probation. If the OP did his homework, he would find that a school's First Time bar passage rate is only one factor that the ABA considers in maintaining an institution's accreditation. They also look at the eventual bar passage, which must be at least 75%. If the initial stats were the only factor in revoking a school's accreditation, many other CA schools would already be in trouble with the ABA, which isn't the case. :wink:

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IAFG
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:56 am

MrPapagiorgio wrote:Interesting, especially because I was under the impression that TJSL was one of the TTTTs that taught to the bar.

If they aren't getting them jobs or getting them past the bar... what are they doing?!

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:59 am

IAFG wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:Interesting, especially because I was under the impression that TJSL was one of the TTTTs that taught to the bar.

If they aren't getting them jobs or getting them past the bar... what are they doing?!

Luring them in with falsified information in order to profit from that deception while leaving students with a crushing amount of non-dischargeable debt?

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Opie
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Opie » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:52 am

MrPapagiorgio wrote:
IAFG wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:Interesting, especially because I was under the impression that TJSL was one of the TTTTs that taught to the bar.

If they aren't getting them jobs or getting them past the bar... what are they doing?!

Luring them in with falsified information in order to profit from that deception while leaving students with a crushing amount of non-dischargeable debt?

+1

I'm not defending them, but from the looks of CA passage rates at this and other schools, it looks like the CA bar is harder than most. Anybody know if that is true? I could have just noticed the rates on the wrong schools. I wouldn't want CA anyway so I haven't looked that hard.

bahari2010
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby bahari2010 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:09 pm

Opie wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:
IAFG wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:Interesting, especially because I was under the impression that TJSL was one of the TTTTs that taught to the bar.

If they aren't getting them jobs or getting them past the bar... what are they doing?!

Luring them in with falsified information in order to profit from that deception while leaving students with a crushing amount of non-dischargeable debt?

+1

I'm not defending them, but from the looks of CA passage rates at this and other schools, it looks like the CA bar is harder than most. Anybody know if that is true? I could have just noticed the rates on the wrong schools. I wouldn't want CA anyway so I haven't looked that hard.


The CA bar is probably the hardest in the country, because among other reasons it tests (some) actual California law (possible essay subjects: Wills, Trusts, CA Civ Pro, CA Evidence, Community Property, Business Associations, CA Prof. Responsibility -- CA rules are not based on the ABA Rules) rather than multi-state "general law" which has no meaning outside the bar exam. The CA bar typically tests 3 MBE subjects, in addition to the to 3 CA subjects and the MBE. There are Also two 3-hour performance tests.

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Borhas
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Borhas » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:38 pm

IAFG wrote:
MrPapagiorgio wrote:Interesting, especially because I was under the impression that TJSL was one of the TTTTs that taught to the bar.

If they aren't getting them jobs or getting them past the bar... what are they doing?!


smoking up all that fine cashish of course

greedy ass bureaucrats

course, you knew that

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MormonChristian
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby MormonChristian » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:31 pm

phialphadelta wrote:
Thomas Jefferson school of law passage rates


2006**70.30%
2007**65.26%
2008**75.08%
2009- 48.15%
2010- 55.93%
2011- 33%
.



Still higher than the Stanford Law School Dean's California Bar passage rate. :o

WSJ_Law
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby WSJ_Law » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:31 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Flash wrote:
WSJ_Law wrote:It's still a good school even though it had a bad year for barzam takers. These fluctuations are common even in the T14. If I was a 0L, I wouldn't let something trivial like the bar results deter me from applying and strongly considering TJSL. One of the few schools I would recommend ITE.

Image


You'd think obvious trolls would actually be funny.


You sound mad.

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby phialphadelta » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:50 am

Thomas Jefferson school of law has some of the greediest and shady administration workers you will find anywhere.

Their supposed bar secrets program by dimwit professors Nancy Johnson and Dennis Sacuzzo who spend all class talking about their personal relation to the bar exam.

The TJSL competitor to BABRI is a scam designed to milk another $4k out of TJSL students who already paid150k for their degrees. Whereas school's like neighboring downtown san diego law school California Western pay for their students to take Barbri for only $500 vs $3k.

Then there's TJSL's professors some who have not worked in the legal world for more than 3 years.

And professors they hire who spend all semester having students read cases out loud instead of doing applicable law problems.

Then there's the out of touch Faculty members who don't want the students to have real world legal experience and instead go to the Professor retreats boasting that the way to increase bar passage rates is to cold call on students in class more.

*Also TJSL has the lowest average gpa of any ABA law school so that students can't transfer out.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Lawl Shcool » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:34 am

phialphadelta wrote:*Also TJSL has the lowest average gpa of any ABA law school so that students can't transfer out.


Patently false - several people transferred out my 1L year, some to very good schools.

Also, what don't you like about the curriculum? To me it seems like they do everything they can to help people pass. 2 semesters of torts, Ks, civ pro, property, con law - so everything possibly covered on the bar should be encompassed and the remainder of bar classes are required for graduation. What more do you want them to do - take the test for you?

flcath
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby flcath » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:09 am

AreJay711 wrote:
2006**70.30%
2007**65.26%
2008**75.08%
2009- 48.15%
2010- 55.93%
2011- 33%


lol how does that happen?

This *had* to have been accompanied by a corresponding trend in either (a) TJLS matriculant LSAT scores from 2004-2008, or (b) the passage rate of all California bar exam takers.

This is a (clearly) statistically significant "fluctuation."

phialphadelta
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby phialphadelta » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:09 pm

Just because TJSL has 15 people in a year who transfer out of the 550 students who chose to attend 1L year does not show that TJSL has not been attempting to keep it's students from transferring by having a lower GPA scale.

Ask any alumni of TJSL.

Further, having 2 torts 2 contracts in a year and then having a 33% bar passage rate shows that TJSL is just inefficient because neighboring tier 3 law schools only have 1 semester of each and are still having +70% CA bar passage rates.

Don't talk to me about attrition rates either because TJSL still kicks out the bottom 28% or so after 1L year just like Cal Western's 30% attrition rate.



the mean gpa at TJSL is 2.7


Lawl Shcool wrote:
phialphadelta wrote:*Also TJSL has the lowest average gpa of any ABA law school so that students can't transfer out.


Patently false - several people transferred out my 1L year, some to very good schools.

Also, what don't you like about the curriculum? To me it seems like they do everything they can to help people pass. 2 semesters of torts, Ks, civ pro, property, con law - so everything possibly covered on the bar should be encompassed and the remainder of bar classes are required for graduation. What more do you want them to do - take the test for you?
Last edited by phialphadelta on Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nobody
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Re: Thomas jefferson school of law has 33% bar passage july 2011

Postby Nobody » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:30 pm

This will certainly affect my decision of whether to go to TJSL.




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