Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

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catholicgirl
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Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby catholicgirl » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:52 pm

Just did the math of a UVA education and passed out for a good three minutes.

Thoughts on rolling the dice at UVA vs. attending BU or William & Mary with half-scholarship?

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:54 pm

catholicgirl wrote:Just did the math of a UVA education and passed out for a good three minutes.

Thoughts on rolling the dice at UVA vs. attending BU or William & Mary with half-scholarship?


This is hard. Basically where I was before pulling the ED trigger at UVA.

I obviously went with the UVA at sticker choice, but its all about what your goals are. If you wouldnt be happy not working biglaw or good boutique, then I think the T14 at sticker is worth the gamble.

This ultimately has to be your call. But you should start a poll!

My vote: UVA

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Veyron
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby Veyron » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:55 pm

UVA. But if you can get UVA at sticker, why can't you get a T1 for free?

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catholicgirl
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby catholicgirl » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:56 pm

Veyron wrote:UVA. But if you can get UVA at sticker, why can't you get a T1 for free?


Eh, I'm a reverse splitter so that may have something to do with it.

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catholicgirl
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby catholicgirl » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:58 pm

I'm leaning hard toward UVA. I want a degree that could potentially open the door to a lot of markets. But I've been reading things like Above the Law and it's made me entirely paranoid about taking on debt.

AssumptionRequired wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:Just did the math of a UVA education and passed out for a good three minutes.

Thoughts on rolling the dice at UVA vs. attending BU or William & Mary with half-scholarship?


This is hard. Basically where I was before pulling the ED trigger at UVA.

I obviously went with the UVA at sticker choice, but its all about what your goals are. If you wouldnt be happy not working biglaw or good boutique, then I think the T14 at sticker is worth the gamble.

This ultimately has to be your call. But you should start a poll!

My vote: UVA

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:59 pm

catholicgirl wrote:I'm leaning hard toward UVA. I want a degree that could potentially open the door to a lot of markets. But I've been reading things like Above the Law and it's made me entirely paranoid about taking on debt.

AssumptionRequired wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:Just did the math of a UVA education and passed out for a good three minutes.

Thoughts on rolling the dice at UVA vs. attending BU or William & Mary with half-scholarship?


This is hard. Basically where I was before pulling the ED trigger at UVA.

I obviously went with the UVA at sticker choice, but its all about what your goals are. If you wouldnt be happy not working biglaw or good boutique, then I think the T14 at sticker is worth the gamble.

This ultimately has to be your call. But you should start a poll!

My vote: UVA


Its a tough decision. You have to know yourself.

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bk1
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby bk1 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:00 pm

I think there's arguments both ways. $200k+ for UVA is obviously more risky but it has more rewards ("better" employment, more reach). Sticker at UVA is basically a coinflip that you might end up drowning in debt. On the other hand $100k debt for a regional school is a lot less risky since even with a $50k job you can conceivably be debt free in around 10 years.

Personally I chose sticker at a T14 over $100k debt at a T20. I don't think it's the better financial decision but the T20's did not place in the areas that I wanted to be. From a pure financial perspective I think I should have chosen to be okay with the areas that the T20's placed in since I did not hate those areas. However, I ended up deciding to go with higher risk for higher reward.

I was also in a position where I could not have gotten a scholarship at a T14 in any circumstance since my UGPA was so low that a 180 would still not have netted me any scholarship money to the T14.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby Veyron » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:01 pm

Just be aware that full price at UVA means that you will graduate with about 220k of debt (because interest accrues during school). This will make your yearly payment north of 30k taxable (so essentially deduct 40k/yr from any paycheck).

Know yourself indeed!
Last edited by Veyron on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby bk1 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:02 pm

catholicgirl wrote:
Veyron wrote:UVA. But if you can get UVA at sticker, why can't you get a T1 for free?


Eh, I'm a reverse splitter so that may have something to do with it.


Since you're a reverse splitter you should keep taking the LSAT until you can get money to the T14.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:07 pm

bk1 wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:
Veyron wrote:UVA. But if you can get UVA at sticker, why can't you get a T1 for free?


Eh, I'm a reverse splitter so that may have something to do with it.


Since you're a reverse splitter you should keep taking the LSAT until you can get money to the T14.


See I am a reverse splitter, and I disagree with this statement.

At least for me studying for the LSAT was a b*tch because RC was rough on me. Due to that being so hard to improve, even with a 4.0, I refused to retake the LSAT because 5 more months of study (I put in 4 months with a class before) with no guaranteed payoff was not worth it. Now if you naturally do well on RC then retaking might not be a bad idea.

Again this goes to knowing yourself.

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catholicgirl
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby catholicgirl » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:13 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
bk1 wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:
Veyron wrote:UVA. But if you can get UVA at sticker, why can't you get a T1 for free?


Eh, I'm a reverse splitter so that may have something to do with it.


Since you're a reverse splitter you should keep taking the LSAT until you can get money to the T14.


See I am a reverse splitter, and I disagree with this statement.

At least for me studying for the LSAT was a b*tch because RC was rough on me. Due to that being so hard to improve, even with a 4.0, I refused to retake the LSAT because 5 more months of study (I put in 4 months with a class before) with no guaranteed payoff was not worth it. Now if you naturally do well on RC then retaking might not be a bad idea.

Again this goes to knowing yourself.


This is definitely a concern for me. I scored in the 92nd percentile, and I'm really not sure if I could even improve more. At a certain point, it depends on external factors that have little to do with how much I've worked.

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Veyron
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby Veyron » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:27 pm

This is definitely a concern for me. I scored in the 92nd percentile, and I'm really not sure if I could even improve more. At a certain point, it depends on external factors that have little to do with how much I've worked.


Maybe, but a 165 is not that point.

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catholicgirl
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby catholicgirl » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:29 pm

Veyron wrote:
This is definitely a concern for me. I scored in the 92nd percentile, and I'm really not sure if I could even improve more. At a certain point, it depends on external factors that have little to do with how much I've worked.


Maybe, but a 165 is not that point.


Swear to G-d I am not trying to start a fight (promise), but what would you consider that point to be?

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby 005618502 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:32 pm

Veyron wrote:
This is definitely a concern for me. I scored in the 92nd percentile, and I'm really not sure if I could even improve more. At a certain point, it depends on external factors that have little to do with how much I've worked.


Maybe, but a 165 is not that point.


Yea but unless she gets 5+ points it wont be that beneficial to her application outcomes.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby JoeMo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:32 pm

I vote UVA, I'm in the same conundrum with UMich and other schools but I'm pretty confident I'm choosing UMich sticker. I have said this before, but unless I get a full ride at a T1 that I would otherwise be happy going to then I am going to UMich for sticker.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby sach1282 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:40 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:Yea but unless she gets 5+ points it wont be that beneficial to her application outcomes.


False. I had a two point jump and my cycle is going along the lines of the higher score.
Last edited by sach1282 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby Veyron » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:42 pm

catholicgirl wrote:
Veyron wrote:
This is definitely a concern for me. I scored in the 92nd percentile, and I'm really not sure if I could even improve more. At a certain point, it depends on external factors that have little to do with how much I've worked.


Maybe, but a 165 is not that point.


Swear to G-d I am not trying to start a fight (promise), but what would you consider that point to be?


Putting LR/RC to one side, I've been told that you shouldn't take the test until you are consistently getting -0/-1 on the games. And, indeed, this is the point at which I found that I couldn't improve no matter how much more I studied.

I will say, however, that I was stuck in the 165 range for a month or two.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby sach1282 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:45 pm

Games were my Achilles heel. I took the test three times, over the course of two and a half years, did every practice test ever released (most 2 or 3 times) and completed three commercial books of logic games along with every LSAT game ever made. And before you ask I did use the LG bible. First test I did -6 LG, second test -7, third test -6. Thankfully I still pulled 170+

Sometimes I dream about retaking for high 170s again, but for me, it would only make a difference at Columbia and NYU. HYS is going to be out because of my GPA anyway.

Edit: Sorry for the derail.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:49 pm

sach1282 wrote:Games were my Achilles heel. I took the test three times, over the course of two and a half years, did every practice test ever released (most 2 or 3 times) and completed three commercial books of logic games along with every LSAT game ever made. And before you ask I did use the LG bible. First test I did -6 LG, second test -7, third test -6. Thankfully I still pulled 170+

Sometimes I dream about retaking for high 170s again, but for me, it would only make a difference at Columbia and NYU. HYS is going to be out because of my GPA anyway.


Yeah, I only missed 1 question on the rest of the test, enter logic games --> 168

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby bk1 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:56 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:See I am a reverse splitter, and I disagree with this statement.

At least for me studying for the LSAT was a b*tch because RC was rough on me. Due to that being so hard to improve, even with a 4.0, I refused to retake the LSAT because 5 more months of study (I put in 4 months with a class before) with no guaranteed payoff was not worth it. Now if you naturally do well on RC then retaking might not be a bad idea.

Again this goes to knowing yourself.


It seems foolish to not at least attempt it when the possible payoff is tens of thousands of dollars and the input cost is a few months of your time. If the studying for several months is that much of a hassle to someone I'd say that law school is going to be a hassle to that person.

Studying is never a guaranteed payoff, but it should be done anyways.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:02 pm

Just for a different perspective from what's already been presented, I took a large scholarship at a T20 over EDing T14 at sticker back when everyone with a 171/3.0 or better who EDed got into UVA or GTown. Personally it's paid off in spades (but full disclosure I'm IP and that makes significant difference).

If it's BU/BC w/ half, I'd take that and gun hard using the exam prep techniques TLS endorses, especially since reverse-splitter means that you're probably a fairly hardworking grinder as it is and thus are well suited to those methods. Those two schools fare very well in terms of NLJ placement. I wouldn't take the same risk with W&M given the NLJ disparities, personally - it'd need to be closer to full tuition. BC/BU are more of a gamble than UVA but not by all that much, and the large scholarship would go a long way towards mitigating the risk while providing a much better upside (i.e. it'd take likely 2 or more years fewer to repay law school debt if you manage biglaw, and repayment's still manageable if you land at a more modest 70k+ salary).

sach1282 wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:Yea but unless she gets 5+ points it wont be that beneficial to her application outcomes.


False. I had a two point jump and my cycle is going along the lines of the higher score.
He's talking about increasing from a 165 - he's not saying that any jump from her score wouldn't be useful. The 5+ would get her to 170, the lowest score needed for most T14s. However, Michigan, Cornell and Boalt all have <170 medians so that'd really be the lower target. Regardless, I'd definitely retake in this situation and aim for at least a 168. Best of luck, OP.

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby WSJ_Law » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:10 pm

Obviously retake, op. even a few points would give you better options even in the unlikely event that you don't get into any higher ranked schools (more scholly).

If you don't, enjoy UVA at sticker. Read getting to maybe and win with Leews bro. Then enjoy dla piper htmfh

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JoeMo
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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby JoeMo » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:27 am

WSJ_Law wrote:Obviously retake, op. even a few points would give you better options even in the unlikely event that you don't get into any higher ranked schools (more scholly).

If you don't, enjoy UVA at sticker. Read getting to maybe and win with Leews bro. Then enjoy dla piper htmfh


I did not know what LEEWS was but I just looked it up and I found this tidbit interesting Its creator is Wentworth Miller

Being a big fan of Prison Break, this automatically gets a +1. LOL

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby 005618502 » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:40 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:Obviously retake, op. even a few points would give you better options even in the unlikely event that you don't get into any higher ranked schools (more scholly).

If you don't, enjoy UVA at sticker. Read getting to maybe and win with Leews bro. Then enjoy dla piper htmfh


I dont know if this is meant in the negative way as it used to be? I guess I dont get it

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Re: Gamble UVA at sticker vs. school in the 20s at half scholly?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:26 pm

My opinion: Half tuition is not nearly enough to justify this. You'll still borrow so much that you're fucked if you can't find a job, but your job prospects will be far, far worse at BU than UVA. Would rather owe $220k with a 75% chance of being able to pay it off than $150k with a 30% chance of paying it off. Honestly, would probably prefer to do neither, though.




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