Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

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goldenflash19
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Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby goldenflash19 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:16 pm

Would greatly appreciate some much needed advice so I can know if I'm walking into a potential minefield.

My whole family lives in the Midwest, and I was born and raised here. Since high school I've wanted to get the heck out and will graduate in May. The most important consideration I have in finding a career is location. I want to live by a beach somewhere with a year-round warm climate. I'm sick of the Midwest and these winters. The only two states I want to work in are Florida and California (Los Angeles down).

How important is the fact that I have absolutely no ties in either market? The reality of my situation is that I would rather have a non-legal job in a nice place than be a senior partner somewhere in the Midwest. I've wanted to be an attorney since 10th grade, but ultimately I want to live by a beach. I'm graduating debt-free with my bachelor's, and I'm a bit apprehensive that my law school investment might be doomed by the fact I have no significant ties where I want to work.

FWIW- I have a 4.0 and retook a disappointing 164 last week. Regardless of any stats and/or hypotheticals, am I in trouble by trying to break either market w/ no ties?

tuckerp
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby tuckerp » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:10 am

If you were to go to Boalt/UCLA or UF/FSU you would create some FL/Cal ties pretty quickly... I would apply to all 4 of those and defer for a year if you get in... if you don't get in, I'd move to one of the states you want to be in and get residency/make some connections for a year and reapply. I suggest the state schools because these are generally the schools where you're more likely to make in-state connections (this likely applies to a lesser extent with Boalt since they draw nationally) AND they dominate job placement in their respective states.

4.0/164 could get you some great money at U of Florida and possibly a full ride at FSU

Good luck!

062914123
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby 062914123 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:47 pm

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20130312
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby 20130312 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:50 pm

Solution: Get married to a girl that was born and raised in SoCal/Florida.

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vincanity1
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby vincanity1 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:58 pm

You'll get a full scholly at UF with a 4.0/164. COL is dirt cheap here, too.

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Grizz
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Grizz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:18 pm

You're in trouble in FL, even if you go to UF/FSU. FL is surprisingly good 'ol boy. It's not impossible, but I wouldn't without living a year or two here first. Even then, you might be viewed with skepticism in different regions of FL.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:42 pm

Ties are not necessary, although helpful, for Los Angeles. But it is important to consider the competition (Stanford, UCLA, USC & the other UC law schools) if you are attending other than a "Top 15 plus USC" law school.

P.S. It would be interesting to know LA biglaw placement for the two main Arizona law schools.

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goldenflash19
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby goldenflash19 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:01 pm

Thanks for the responses guys- really encouraging stuff. I personally like the idea of finding the picturesque Hollywood actress and establishing ties that way, but it seems I could crack either market pending I take the right and realistic action haha. UCLA has and continues to be my dream school, and hopefully my next LSAT makes that dream realistic. The state schools in Florida sound like solid options, but I've heard UF's residency requirement might make it a little bit tough for me to get in there even with my current stats. FSU might be easier to sneak into w/ $$$. I'm open to a year off if it means better employment prospects in either state.

I've also wondered about Arizona schools' placement in LA biglaw. I know it would likely be dependent on the precarious assumption of finishing in the top 10-20% of your class, but definitely worth looking up.

My dad keeps pushing me towards UVA ED and claims, if accepted, it would give me the mobility to find a coastal job after graduation. Any thoughts on this compared to the regional schools we've mentioned?

Thanks again

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Grizz
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Grizz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:14 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:My dad keeps pushing me towards UVA ED and claims, if accepted, it would give me the mobility to find a coastal job after graduation. Any thoughts on this compared to the regional schools we've mentioned?

Thanks again

Even from UVA, since you're not from FL, I wouldn't bet on getting a job in FL.

Like I said, you're an outsider, and firms are gonna see right through your "it seems like a good place to live."

CanadianWolf
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:22 pm

Research Holland & Knight's Tampa office bios. Then ED Virginia.

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Grizz
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Grizz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:52 pm

Research H&K. Learn of Miami no offers. Be afraid. Learn that in Tampa they hired 2 people, the #1 dood at Stetson and a dood from Harvard. Continue fear.

Check the OCI thread. There are 2 stories of median T10 people with ties who got 1 offer only. If you're not from FL, good luck ITE. There are so few positions that firms can pack their classes with people with ties.

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vincanity1
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby vincanity1 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:46 pm

Grizz wrote:Research H&K. Learn of Miami no offers. Be afraid. Learn that in Tampa they hired 2 people, the #1 dood at Stetson and a dood from Harvard. Continue fear.

Check the OCI thread. There are 2 stories of median T10 people with ties who got 1 offer only. If you're not from FL, good luck ITE. There are so few positions that firms can pack their classes with people with ties.


TITCR, unfortunately. I was born and raised in Miami, went to UF, prob going T6, and am still pretty worried about securing something in Miami.

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goldenflash19
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby goldenflash19 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:01 am

Florida does seem tough to break. The first partner I found in the Tampa office who went to UVA went to UF for his undergrad, not surprisingly. It's not inconceivable if I landed T-14 (probably only option=UVA ED with current LSAT) that I could crack the market, but it wouldn't be something worth betting on. It's very possible if I went to UVA, I'd end up directing my OCI interviews towards NY, DC etc. just out of the necessity of paying back loans and maximizing my shot at biglaw.

I always have been infatuated with SoCali. What do you guys think of Loyola? I could probably land a nice scholly there, though I have heard they come w/ stips. It very well could be worth waiting a year for UCLA/USC if Dec LSAT doesn't come back at least at a 168. A possible T-14 spot next cycle and somewhat national mobility is tempting, though...

picklebarrel
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby picklebarrel » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:27 am

I don't think you should consider Loyola with your numbers. You are right, the scholarship stips are pretty scary and I certainly wouldn't want to take that chance. That said, I think you actually have a pretty good shot at both UCLA and USC with that high gpa and the 164. Still, definitely not a bad idea to wait for next cycle and shoot for T14

Danteshek
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Danteshek » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:33 am

I think your infatuation with Los Angeles will quickly wear off once you get here.

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Yukos
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Yukos » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:53 am

Danteshek wrote:I think your infatuation with Los Angeles will quickly wear off once you get here.


I think your infatuation with Los Angeles will grow into a full-bore love affair once you get here. I've lived here for 10 years and can't imagine a better city in the world (and I've lived in quite a few cities despite my 0L status).

(Just trying to offer a contrasting viewpoint)

062914123
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby 062914123 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:56 am

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horrorbusiness
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby horrorbusiness » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:11 am

LA is great.

FWIW, using the term "SoCali" might get you autodinged at any southern california firm you go for. AFAIK no native californian has ever, ever used that term.

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Yukos
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Yukos » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:51 am

horrorbusiness wrote:FWIW, using the term "SoCali" might get you autodinged at any southern california firm you go for. AFAIK no native californian has ever, ever used that term.


Credited.

PMan99
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby PMan99 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:17 am

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CanadianWolf
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:21 am

OP: Still look into Holland & Knight. They have offices world-wide (Beijing, China, Mexico & the Middle East), including 8 offices in Florida. Not sure if they still allow transfers between offices. You have to ask them. Getting a law degree from Virginia should not harm your employment chances in Florida or other coastal areas. The reality is that for the Florida market, according to other posters, things are tough now. You may have to expand your target markets, but getting with a firm like H&K might be a great option for you even if you don't start in one of their Florida coastal locations.

P.S. I have never held the impression that this is a provincial, or parochial, minded law firm.

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Grizz
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:06 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:OP: Still look into Holland & Knight. They have offices world-wide (Beijing, China, Mexico & the Middle East), including 8 offices in Florida. Not sure if they still allow transfers between offices. You have to ask them. Getting a law degree from Virginia should not harm your employment chances in Florida or other coastal areas. The reality is that for the Florida market, according to other posters, things are tough now. You may have to expand your target markets, but getting with a firm like H&K might be a great option for you even if you don't start in one of their Florida coastal locations.

P.S. I have never held the impression that this is a provincial, or parochial, minded law firm.

Jax office is probably the best H&K office overall, not just in FL, in terms of revenue, etc. H&K Tampa lost a bunch of old-timers to Quarles. No idea what's happening in Miami, but 2/5 offers is bad. They aren't as povincial as someone like Hill Ward, Lowndes, Trenam, agreed.

062914123
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby 062914123 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:49 pm

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goldenflash19
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby goldenflash19 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:58 pm

Did a little research on H&K- definitely impressed. If I'm lucky fortunate enough to attend a school where they OCI, they would definitely be worth targeting. Odds are if I wind up attending a school where they OCI, I'll be forced to pay off some pretty hefty loans and they would give me that opportunity if I can nail the interview (plus hopefully mobility to an office like LA, Tampa, or JAX eventually).

Lol on the "SoCali" thing. I always called it "SoCal" but a user on ESPN.com told me everyone there calls it "SoCali." For some reason, I think I'm better off trust the TLS users than those on ESPN.com haha.

Thanks a ton for the advice guys. With still probably at least 10 days before the earliest possible LSAT release date, I'd have to say I'm leaning towards UVA ED unless I break the 170 mark.

TheVassarBro
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Re: Importance of Ties for SoCali and Florida Markets

Postby TheVassarBro » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:16 pm

LA sucks (except Silverlake). I've lived between NYC and LA for the past 4 years. Both are dirty and soulless.
San Francisco wins.




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