University of Minnesota

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ThreeRivers
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University of Minnesota

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:34 pm

If Daniel (forget username completely) could refrain from posting here, I would appreciate it.
His bashes of Minnesota is what is causing me to have second doubts / make this thread, but I already know your perspective and don't want this thread turning into a fight involving supporters and opponents of his belief).

Ok, basically my numbers aren't that great (167/3.44) so I was pretty excited upon being accepted into Minn (ranked number 20). Then I saw all the angy Daniel comments ripping the school into shreads, but just kind of viewed him as a very bitter person, but upon looking at Law School Transparency U of Minn has a decent amount less people reporting their salaries then other peer schools...

Idc about "the building looks like shit / they chain stuff, etc) I'm just wondering about job prospects. Are Minnesota job prospects less of that of other similarly ranked schools?

Specifically, does anyone know how job prospects stack up to these schools:
WUSTL, William and Mary, Washington and Lee, Boston U, Notre Dame

Thanks

tennisking88
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby tennisking88 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:39 pm

I work with an atty who went to Minn. He says the year he graduated ('08) only top 25% got clerkships or BigLaw jobs, almost exclusively within the MN region. This was before the recession. I would not attend UMN at sticker price. The atty told me it's ranked well mostly because it's got a great reputation (which is the biggest chunk of the USNWR grading) for having some really brilliant professors. Employment stats, as you see, are not stellar.

tennisking88
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby tennisking88 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:47 pm

I think UMN is a great lesson in understanding that USNWR rankings past the top 10 or so schools become less useful. I wouldn't view UMN as the #20 school in the country. I would view it as the best school in and near Minnesota. And if you wanna practice in Minnesota, there's not a better place for you. I would never say UMN is better than BC, even though it's ranked 7 spots higher. BC has way better placement. But BC doesn't really place outside the NE, as UMN doesn't place outside the midwest. See where I'm going with this?

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ThreeRivers
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:53 pm

tennisking88 wrote:I think UMN is a great lesson in understanding that USNWR rankings past the top 10 or so schools become less useful. I wouldn't view UMN as the #20 school in the country. I would view it as the best school in and near Minnesota. And if you wanna practice in Minnesota, there's not a better place for you. I would never say UMN is better than BC, even though it's ranked 7 spots higher. BC has way better placement. But BC doesn't really place outside the NE, as UMN doesn't place outside the midwest. See where I'm going with this?

I do, and I understood with my statistics I would most likely plan on applying to schools I wouldn't mind living in the area, which determined were I applied to. So of the above schools I listed, is UMN generally harder to get jobs from than them?

Its just their lawschool transparency shows so few responding, kind of surprised me

tennisking88
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby tennisking88 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:56 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think UMN is a great lesson in understanding that USNWR rankings past the top 10 or so schools become less useful. I wouldn't view UMN as the #20 school in the country. I would view it as the best school in and near Minnesota. And if you wanna practice in Minnesota, there's not a better place for you. I would never say UMN is better than BC, even though it's ranked 7 spots higher. BC has way better placement. But BC doesn't really place outside the NE, as UMN doesn't place outside the midwest. See where I'm going with this?

I do, and I understood with my statistics I would most likely plan on applying to schools I wouldn't mind living in the area, which determined were I applied to. So of the above schools I listed, is UMN generally harder to get jobs from than them?

Its just their lawschool transparency shows so few responding, kind of surprised me


Jobs in Minnesota are easier to get from UMN. Jobs in Chicago are easier from ND/WUSTL. Jobs in Boston from Boston. Jobs in VA from WL/WM. If you choose UMN be prepared to compete for jobs in MN. It's not impossible for someone from UMN to get a job in Chicago, but the competition will be much fiercer.

Edit: I think if you want to maximize the mobility of your degree, the better you have to do in school.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:01 pm

tennisking88 wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think UMN is a great lesson in understanding that USNWR rankings past the top 10 or so schools become less useful. I wouldn't view UMN as the #20 school in the country. I would view it as the best school in and near Minnesota. And if you wanna practice in Minnesota, there's not a better place for you. I would never say UMN is better than BC, even though it's ranked 7 spots higher. BC has way better placement. But BC doesn't really place outside the NE, as UMN doesn't place outside the midwest. See where I'm going with this?

I do, and I understood with my statistics I would most likely plan on applying to schools I wouldn't mind living in the area, which determined were I applied to. So of the above schools I listed, is UMN generally harder to get jobs from than them?

Its just their lawschool transparency shows so few responding, kind of surprised me


Jobs in Minnesota are easier to get from UMN. Jobs in Chicago are easier from ND/WUSTL. Jobs in Boston from Boston. Jobs in VA from WL/WM. If you choose UMN be prepared to compete for jobs in MN. It's not impossible for someone from UMN to get a job in Chicago, but the competition will be much fiercer.

I understand your point, but I'm asking a different question... which may be impossible to answer

What's easier / easiest to get:
Jobs in Chicago if I attend ND / WUSTL
Jobs in Boston if I attend Boston
Jobs in VA from WL / WM
Jobs in MN from MN

All of those are areas I would not mind living in / don't have much preference which is what attracted me to these schools.

I understand that Boston is the best for Boston, MN best for MN, etc... but just in general "which is the best for jobs in their region"

This may be a tough question to answer and I'm not trying to come off a pressuring you... I do appreciate you attempting to help me

tennisking88
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby tennisking88 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:04 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:
ThreeRivers wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think UMN is a great lesson in understanding that USNWR rankings past the top 10 or so schools become less useful. I wouldn't view UMN as the #20 school in the country. I would view it as the best school in and near Minnesota. And if you wanna practice in Minnesota, there's not a better place for you. I would never say UMN is better than BC, even though it's ranked 7 spots higher. BC has way better placement. But BC doesn't really place outside the NE, as UMN doesn't place outside the midwest. See where I'm going with this?

I do, and I understood with my statistics I would most likely plan on applying to schools I wouldn't mind living in the area, which determined were I applied to. So of the above schools I listed, is UMN generally harder to get jobs from than them?

Its just their lawschool transparency shows so few responding, kind of surprised me


Jobs in Minnesota are easier to get from UMN. Jobs in Chicago are easier from ND/WUSTL. Jobs in Boston from Boston. Jobs in VA from WL/WM. If you choose UMN be prepared to compete for jobs in MN. It's not impossible for someone from UMN to get a job in Chicago, but the competition will be much fiercer.

I understand your point, but I'm asking a different question... which may be impossible to answer

What's easier / easiest to get:
Jobs in Chicago if I attend ND / WUSTL
Jobs in Boston if I attend Boston
Jobs in VA from WL / WM
Jobs in MN from MN

All of those are areas I would not mind living in / don't have much preference which is what attracted me to these schools.

I understand that Boston is the best for Boston, MN best for MN, etc... but just in general "which is the best for jobs in their region"

This may be a tough question to answer and I'm not trying to come off a pressuring you... I do appreciate you attempting to help me


I see what you're saying. It all depends on how you do I think. Generally, the more dominant a school is within a market (ie WUSTL in St.Louis), the more leniency in what your rank is.

Edit: The most important part for you to decide is which of those areas you want to live in most. The game then becomes crushing it at law school. I don't particularly think one market is EASIER to break into than another.

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ThreeRivers
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby ThreeRivers » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:07 pm

Thanks, yea I assumed these would all be kind of even but MN employment statistics weren't looking too good... I'm starting to thinking maybe the law market there just sucks so similar regionally ranked schools may be a better route

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Gail
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby Gail » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:29 pm

You should really consider where you have ties already, honestly. I've come to find out that going to a school where you don't already have ties can make it difficult to get a job in the primary feeder market.

If you're from Minnesota, you can't do much better. If not... I'd be just that much more nervous. Where are you from/have ties to, OP?

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somewherewarm
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby somewherewarm » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:57 pm

Gail wrote:You should really consider where you have ties already, honestly. I've come to find out that going to a school where you don't already have ties can make it difficult to get a job in the primary feeder market.

If you're from Minnesota, you can't do much better. If not... I'd be just that much more nervous. Where are you from/have ties to, OP?

+1

ThreeRivers wrote:What's easier / easiest to get:
Jobs in Chicago if I attend ND / WUSTL
Jobs in Boston if I attend Boston
Jobs in VA from WL / WM
Jobs in MN from MN


I'm really glad you asked this question (this specific question) because I've been wondering about this myself. From the 2009 data, which may be a little optimistic but is unfortunately all we have to go on at the moment, BU and BC have the highest percentage employed in NLJ 250 combined with other firms... if we can assume that the majority of BU/BC grads are employed in Boston then the Boston schools are the winner in this debate, although the number of Boston students finding work in New York may skew this data.
WUSTL does better than BU in its respective employment metric but I don't know where WUSTL grads find employment (I believe it to be a mix of Chicago and the rest of the midwest).

Also: Thank you for starting a thread about Minnesota and barring Daniel Pi from the beginning. The threads on here about Minn have all devolved into Daniel is great v. Daniel is terrible.

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Robespierre
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby Robespierre » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:21 pm

"What's easier / easiest to get:
Jobs in Chicago if I attend ND / WUSTL
Jobs in Boston if I attend Boston
Jobs in VA from WL / WM
Jobs in MN from MN?"

Great question. There's no data that I know of, so we have to speculate based on common sense. My guess would be MN from MN, because the Twin Cities:

- have fewer people coming in from outside the area than Chi does,
- are dominated by U of Minn more so than Boston is dominated by any one school, and
- have more jobs than VA (except the part which is in the DC market, but there you are faced with loads of competition from GULC, GW and the rest).

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topper10s
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby topper10s » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:34 pm

It's kind of on a USNWR island, but could you add SMU for Dallas to the list of schools that are good in their region, on par with U Minn for Minnesota, BU/BC for Boston, or VA from WL/WM?

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Grizz
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:30 pm

ThreeRivers wrote:I understand your point, but I'm asking a different question... which may be impossible to answer

What's easier / easiest to get:
Jobs in Chicago if I attend ND / WUSTL
Jobs in Boston if I attend Boston
Jobs in VA from WL / WM
Jobs in MN from MN

All of those are areas I would not mind living in / don't have much preference which is what attracted me to these schools.

I understand that Boston is the best for Boston, MN best for MN, etc... but just in general "which is the best for jobs in their region"

This may be a tough question to answer and I'm not trying to come off a pressuring you... I do appreciate you attempting to help me


This is the wrong question because of the nature of legal hiring ITE. Back in the day, you could just go to the regional school and get a job in-region. Now, it's much harder, and firms have varying degrees of skepticism toward outsiders

Gail wrote:You should really consider where you have ties already, honestly. I've come to find out that going to a school where you don't already have ties can make it difficult to get a job in the primary feeder market.

If you're from Minnesota, you can't do much better. If not... I'd be just that much more nervous. Where are you from/have ties to, OP?


Which makes this TCR

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Grizz
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:30 pm

tennisking88 wrote:Generally, the more dominant a school is within a market (ie WUSTL in St.Louis),

Woostle does not dominate St. Louis

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ThreeRivers
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby ThreeRivers » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:47 pm

Gail wrote:You should really consider where you have ties already, honestly. I've come to find out that going to a school where you don't already have ties can make it difficult to get a job in the primary feeder market.

If you're from Minnesota, you can't do much better. If not... I'd be just that much more nervous. Where are you from/have ties to, OP?

Just noticed this thread again, but only place I have ties to is Pittsburgh (although I don't know anyone who is a lawyer here really)....

Also, I was thinking about Pitt if they gave me a big enough offer, but there offer left much to be desired.. and the employment statistics for Pitt are quite scary

Sandro
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Re: University of Minnesota

Postby Sandro » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:44 pm

Go visit. Don't be fooled by Minnesota's rank - it is pretty much equal to the other better regional schools, and its in Minnesota. Its cold.




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