I need some REAL advice please...158/2.21 Forum

[poe]

Aren't people without prior ties to a region (at least when it comes to small, insular markets) generally at a disadvantage?

I really don't think this is true for Texas, NC, Florida and Georgia if you go to school there. Maybe a little in LA and for sure in SC.

And those states have tier 1 schools to feed those markets. So just like in Cali, he'd be getting crushed by grads of better schools (UT, UNC, Emory, Vanderbilt - hell, even schools like Baylor or FSU would be out-competing whatever school he might be able to get into).

There are smaller markets without any high-ranked schools (someone mentioned Maine and West Virginia, I think), and those are the ones likely to be insular.

The point is, there's really no market that would make this a good idea, so let's not pretend otherwise.

[SplitLife]

I would seriously seriously seriously try and intentionally extend undergrad.... Take 13 hours this summer at a community college in like real estate or art classes look at their grade distribution then do 21 hours fall semester next year doing the easiest classes you can find like do a minor in religion or landscaping.... that would be 34 new hours of hopefully A's to cushion your app when you apply next Christmas that could bump you to around a 2.75..
If you decide you must apply right now I would say shoot "high" for schools like loyola NO, LSU, stetson, Nova SE, FIU, maybe mercer, south texas and others... I would really really look at the COL in the areas you apply because you will struggle. I really think if you must take the TTT trian I would not do it in markets like the northeast or out west as when you struggle there you could end up homeless but at least in the southeast COL is cheap as shit and lay people down here are naive to school rankings for the most part and the only great schools they know are their state's flagship, this ignorance helps if you become a ham and egg shop doing DUIs, Family Law etc. Also IMO their are huge differences in employment of TTT for instance if you look at Loyola NO, Nova and Stetson where a large portion of the class is employed while they may not be making 160k they are employed compared to schools like Ave Maria where no one is employed. I also have a friend who graduated from Charleston a year ago and just (so it took him a year) got a job as an associate at a multi-office bankruptcy firm in SC. He had to work for a year as a paralegal in asbestos class action before he could find a job as an attorney but now he is making 70k and paying off loans. Last year he was really depressed and told me to never go to law school but now he is glad he made the decision and likes what he does everyday and the hours and wishes he didn't place so much importance on the first job he got out of law school and looked at the big picture of his long term career.

Helpful. Thank you

[ToTransferOrNot]

Nobody will care a whole lot about your ADHD.

Ugh, how do you know this? Is there any way you can point me in the direction of a statistic or some kind of hard evidence that I can possibly research to determine if in fact there are schools out there that may care a little bit about medically diagnosed learning disabilities that have been overcome?

Law schools are a numbers game. "Overcoming disability" is a soft, like any other soft (and frankly, in the eyes of any law school worth a salt, your numbers aren't going to demonstrate having 'overcome' anything). And before you go there, no, overcoming something like ADHD is not viewed even remotely the same as being URM: there is demand in the legal field for URMs. It is true that law schools accommodate ADHD (in some circumstances, anyway) by altering testing rules and the like, but there is no special demand in the legal field for people with ADHD.

And as far as 'wasting people's time' is concerned w/r/t the "don't go" comments you are getting: if someone else in your situation (or one remotely like it) happens across these boards, somehow misses the other 6 dozen "don't go" posts and just sees this, and is jarred/reconsiders what would be a terrible decision to go to law school, then this thread would have accomplished more than it would accomplish if people told you that you'll be just fine going to whatever TTTT will take you. It's an internet message board: you don't get to control the responses to your posts. You've been pointed to the only resource - LSN - that really has the information you're looking for.

[weatherswaysme]

find a school where you are at or above 75th for LSAT in a region you want to work in. Go visit that school. Meet with the ad com and explain your situation. Write about your visit somewhere in your application. Say that you were impressed with school/people and you would be happy to attend, ect. Hope this helps

[SplitLife]

Which region do you want to end up in? Until you answer that our answers cannot be very helpful.

I would love to end up in CA/NY/AZ/NV

Well with that GPA/LSAT you probably won't get a decent job in those places, especially CA and NY because a metric fuckton of other students from not just better schools, but the best schools want to be there. I don't know where you're living now, but since you have "a gun to your head" either hit up a place where you live that has a low in state tuition or a place out in the midwest or somewhere that nobody wants to live and that has no competition from other schools, like North Dakota.

ETA: but seriously, there will be literally tens of thousands of people with better grades and better LSAT scores coming from much better schools that will be competing with you for jobs. Even at top 10 institutions students are having trouble finding work. Don't stick your head in the fucking sand and tell yourself that "as long as you work hard" you'll be fine. Seriously. Why do you insist on ignoring the advice you know most people will give (for good reason too)?

I'm not ignoring their advice, I've certainly heeded it. The reasons for which they give that advice are generally of no value to me. I have my own reasons for wanting to go to law school, the wage I make after law school isn't nearly as high up on that list for me as it is for most posters here on TLS. I have many connections here in CA as far as partners and jr. partners, a few good ones in NY too.

Basically, I'm not worried about a lot of things that the more pessimistic nay-sayers on TLS are.

So if people could just help me figure out where to apply this cycle, I would greatly appreciate that. (Yes, I know, TTTs...which?? TT reaches??)

[johansantana21]

Wtf? If you have connections to partners that will get you jobs, then go to any school you get into.

If you don't have connections to partners that will get you a job, then heed the original advice and don't go.

[joemoviebuff]

Which region do you want to end up in? Until you answer that our answers cannot be very helpful.

I would love to end up in CA/NY/AZ/NV

Well with that GPA/LSAT you probably won't get a decent job in those places, especially CA and NY because a metric fuckton of other students from not just better schools, but the best schools want to be there. I don't know where you're living now, but since you have "a gun to your head" either hit up a place where you live that has a low in state tuition or a place out in the midwest or somewhere that nobody wants to live and that has no competition from other schools, like North Dakota.

ETA: but seriously, there will be literally tens of thousands of people with better grades and better LSAT scores coming from much better schools that will be competing with you for jobs. Even at top 10 institutions students are having trouble finding work. Don't stick your head in the fucking sand and tell yourself that "as long as you work hard" you'll be fine. Seriously. Why do you insist on ignoring the advice you know most people will give (for good reason too)?

I'm not ignoring their advice, I've certainly heeded it. The reasons for which they give that advice are generally of no value to me. I have my own reasons for wanting to go to law school, the wage I make after law school isn't nearly as high up on that list for me as it is for most posters here on TLS. I have many connections here in CA as far as partners and jr. partners, a few good ones in NY too.

Basically, I'm not worried about a lot of things that the more pessimistic nay-sayers on TLS are.

So if people could just help me figure out where to apply this cycle, I would greatly appreciate that. (Yes, I know, TTTs...which?? TT reaches??)

What is the nature of these connections? Your uncle will have a hard time convincing the other partners of the firm that his niece or nephew from People's College of Law will make a great addition to the firm.

As for schools, if these connections are as awesome as you make them sound, then just go to the cheapest school you can with a decent bar passage rate I guess.

[poe]

So if people could just help me figure out where to apply this cycle, I would greatly appreciate that. (Yes, I know, TTTs...which?? TT reaches??)

In that case, it's already been said that checking LawSchoolNumbers is your best bet. Most TLS members don't know the stats and admissions policies of these types of schools off-hand...

[094320]

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[SplitLife]

Nobody will care a whole lot about your ADHD.

Ugh, how do you know this? Is there any way you can point me in the direction of a statistic or some kind of hard evidence that I can possibly research to determine if in fact there are schools out there that may care a little bit about medically diagnosed learning disabilities that have been overcome?

Law schools are a numbers game. "Overcoming disability" is a soft, like any other soft (and frankly, in the eyes of any law school worth a salt, your numbers aren't going to demonstrate having 'overcome' anything). And before you go there, no, overcoming something like ADHD is not viewed even remotely the same as being URM: there is demand in the legal field for URMs. It is true that law schools accommodate ADHD (in some circumstances, anyway) by altering testing rules and the like, but there is no special demand in the legal field for people with ADHD.

And as far as 'wasting people's time' is concerned w/r/t the "don't go" comments you are getting: if someone else in your situation (or one remotely like it) happens across these boards, somehow misses the other 6 dozen "don't go" posts and just sees this, and is jarred/reconsiders what would be a terrible decision to go to law school, then this thread would have accomplished more than it would accomplish if people told you that you'll be just fine going to whatever TTTT will take you. It's an internet message board: you don't get to control the responses to your posts. You've been pointed to the only resource - LSN - that really has the information you're looking for.

I always considered TLS more of an online community than simply an internet message board. Obviously I know I cant control other's responses, I just didn't understand the purpose of "don't go" posts before. I guess I gave all those "warnings" in my OP because I didn't want to have to read through all the "don't go" posts but yes, I suppose you are correct. I would hate to be the reason that someone else in my situation reads my post and decides to change their entire life plan because of it, surely such a person has a very bright future.

I'm visiting LSN now, any specific advice on what I should be looking at/comparing?

[crumpetsandtea]

In 3-4 years, please come back and tell us how well those connections and your TTT worked out for you in the incredibly over-crowded SoCal market. I'm being serious here--I think future visitors to this board would benefit greatly from an honest, to-the-point "this is what happened to me" account.

As to your most recent Q about LSN -- look at people with similar numbers and check what schools they got into and didn't get into, and how much $$$ they got and whether or not that $$$ had stipulations on it (ie: must maintain top 1/3 of the class).

[SplitLife]

What is the nature of these connections? Your uncle will have a hard time convincing the other partners of the firm that his niece or nephew from People's College of Law will make a great addition to the firm.

As for schools, if these connections are as awesome as you make them sound, then just go to the cheapest school you can with a decent bar passage rate I guess.

Exactly. Which is why I need to at least try and get myself into the best TTT possible, maybe transfer up, etc. ...So my uncle doesn't have such a hard time

[SplitLife]

In 3-4 years, please come back and tell us how well those connections and your TTT worked out for you in the incredibly over-crowded SoCal market. I'm being serious here--I think future visitors to this board would benefit greatly from an honest, to-the-point "this is what happened to me" account.

As to your most recent Q about LSN -- look at people with similar numbers and check what schools they got into and didn't get into, and how much $$$ they got and whether or not that $$$ had stipulations on it (ie: must maintain top 1/3 of the class).

Nice thank you so much, and I honestly do plan to come back here in 3-4 years to do that. I wish others had done so already. Even if I end up doing somewhat well for myself, I'm sure my example will just be tossed aside for X, X or, X reason.

In either case, thank you for the LSN help!

[johansantana21]

OP is hopeless. Let him commit financial suicide.

[SplitLife]

acrossthelake,

"Yeah, this. We're picking schools off of the job opportunities the schools will give us. If that's not relevant to you, then we have no advice."

Seeing as how you were pretty much useless to this thread even before I mentioned any type of connections--all while other avid TLS'ers seemed to be able to come up with helpful advice--it would seem more appropriate if you spoke for yourself and admitted: I have no advice.

[094320]

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[john1990]

Accrossthelake is an admin, so she has the right to speak for the site

[094320]

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[crumpetsandtea]

OP, I wouldn't be so rude to ATL if I were you. What she says is logical. Please take a look at the Legal Employment Forum in order to get a better sense of what the current legal market is like.

While I think all of us definitely hope that you do well and come back with a success story, we're just cautioning you as to what could very likely happen so that you're well informed about the risks you are taking. Specifically take note of the fact that the VAST majority of TLS-ers are, indeed, at 'top law schools' (as the forum name would suggest), and understand that whatever troubles anyone attending a T14 is going through will be amplified by a LOT for you.

[SplitLife]

See the problem is that people DO come back here..with posts about how they're jobless. I personally know people who are going to schools far better who have had major problems finding jobs. People aren't trying to be downers just to be downers. We legitimately think it's a bad job market out there and that people are better off not taking huge gambles.[/quote]

Which section/thread can I find these posts under?

And please excuse the snippiness haha, it's TLS, I swear.

[crumpetsandtea]

Which section/thread can I find these posts under?

And please excuse the snippiness haha, it's TLS, I swear.

See my link above. Also see this thread for an example of a student from HYSCCN who can't get a job - http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... ead#unread

[094320]

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[vanwinkle]

Exactly. Which is why I need to at least try and get myself into the best TTT possible, maybe transfer up, etc. ...So my uncle doesn't have such a hard time

Responding to bolded... I was a transfer, I know many other transfers, I've kept up with transfer cycles the last couple years. I know a lot about transferring. This is the advice I have to give:

When choosing a school, assume you won't be able to transfer.

Transferring upward (from a lower tier to a higher tier) requires exceptionally good grades. If you're hoping to transfer up to a T1 or better, you'll need to be at least in the top 10% of your class, and probably much higher. Transferring seems especially competitive right now because of the economy and everyone trying to gain whatever advantage they can.

If you pick a school, you should just assume it's more than 90% likely you'll be graduating there. If that makes sense for you, then go ahead and go. But don't think that transferring will be a viable option until you have the stellar grades that a successful transfer applicant needs to have. You can't know how well you'll do until after you've enrolled and taken your first semester, so you can't assume you'll do well now.

[SplitLife]

Exactly. Which is why I need to at least try and get myself into the best TTT possible, maybe transfer up, etc. ...So my uncle doesn't have such a hard time

Responding to bolded... I was a transfer, I know many other transfers, I've kept up with transfer cycles the last couple years. I know a lot about transferring. This is the advice I have to give:

When choosing a school, assume you won't be able to transfer.

Transferring upward (from a lower tier to a higher tier) requires exceptionally good grades. If you're hoping to transfer up to a T1 or better, you'll need to be at least in the top 10% of your class, and probably much higher. Transferring seems especially competitive right now because of the economy and everyone trying to gain whatever advantage they can.

If you pick a school, you should just assume it's more than 90% likely you'll be graduating there. If that makes sense for you, then go ahead and go. But don't think that transferring will be a viable option until you have the stellar grades that a successful transfer applicant needs to have. You can't know how well you'll do until after you've enrolled and taken your first semester, so you can't assume you'll do well now.

Thank you!

[Megamanvix]

Where do you want to practice and do you want the big city, town, or rural are the main questions to be asked before answering your question.

I'm currently in Southern California. I understand it's going to be very difficult for me to stay/practice here. I'm open to practicing in CA/NY/NV/AZ as of right now. At the same time, if someone directs me in the direction of a school in any other region, one that will significantly increase my chances of making a decent living after law school, then of course I will consider.

I know Southwestern Law in LA has a good regional influence as far as the high % of people they send to the DA/PD's office as well as smaller private firms. I will definitely be applying there.

Forget about going anywhere other than California. Law School is a regional thing by nature and by staying in state you greatly increase your chances of being accepted. Not only that, considering the amount of law schools California has you should be able to find work in your crazy lawsuit-filled state.

Southwestern, Chapman, Golden Gate, and any other schools in this range. You will probably have to settle for Tier 3. Shoot for Santa Clara because nothing is ever set in stone, something the clowns on this forum would know if they listened in class. If you get wait-listed work hard to get accepted, volunteer work, call every week, you know the drill.

And don't worry about scholarships, go to the better school, you will make that money back 10-fold if you go to a school with a "name".