Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

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hume85
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Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby hume85 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:51 pm

Suppose one is accepted into all three schools, and these are the highest ranked schools into which one is accepted. Which of the three would provide the best opportunity for securing a job doing biglaw corporate work in NYC? Thank you in advance.

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20130312
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 20130312 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:53 pm

I would say Penn, just for the accessibility to the actual market you want to practice in (Philly -> NYC is a 2 hour drive). NY firms probably come down to Penn in droves for OCI.

Regardless, congrats on the great school options. You should be just as well off at any of them.

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:57 pm

They're going to be very, very, VERY similar. This decision should probably be made based on cost, personal preferences and your feelings about UVA's pre-select system.

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:59 pm

IAFG wrote:They're going to be very, very, VERY similar. This decision should probably be made based on cost, personal preferences and your feelings about UVA's pre-select system.


Actually dont know much about this, what would you say are the positive and negatives to this?

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Grizz
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby Grizz » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
IAFG wrote:They're going to be very, very, VERY similar. This decision should probably be made based on cost, personal preferences and your feelings about UVA's pre-select system.


Actually dont know much about this, what would you say are the positive and negatives to this?

Searching for the UVA 2011 OCI thread should give you all the info on the whole saga this year.

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm

hume85 wrote:Suppose one is accepted into all three schools, and these are the highest ranked schools into which one is accepted. Which of the three would provide the best opportunity for securing a job doing biglaw corporate work in NYC? Thank you in advance.


The school picked between these should basically be based on $ and preference. If all are at sticker look at COL and which enviornment you would do best in

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Grizz
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby Grizz » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:05 pm

hume85 wrote:Suppose


No.

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:15 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
IAFG wrote:They're going to be very, very, VERY similar. This decision should probably be made based on cost, personal preferences and your feelings about UVA's pre-select system.


Actually dont know much about this, what would you say are the positive and negatives to this?

I think pre-selects seriously burn people who could use a few interviews to get into the "groove" and adjust to legal hiring interviews, which are definitely different than typical interviews. I did nearly 40 interviews at OCI, and I was glad to have the practice. Under a pre-select system, you might only get a handful of screeners. That's not much margin for error.

There's debate about whether you can turn what would have been a ding at the pre-select stage into a CB on the powers of your screener alone. Firms don't seem to be homogenous to me in how they make hiring decisions, so I have to assume some firms are just going to straight ding you if they would not have pre-selected you, and others are more holistic. To me, that seems to mean that for the majority of the class (the bottom 3/4s or so) lottery system gives them at least a slightly better shot at a job.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby quakeroats » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:21 pm

Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:22 pm

IAFG wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
IAFG wrote:They're going to be very, very, VERY similar. This decision should probably be made based on cost, personal preferences and your feelings about UVA's pre-select system.


Actually dont know much about this, what would you say are the positive and negatives to this?

I think pre-selects seriously burn people who could use a few interviews to get into the "groove" and adjust to legal hiring interviews, which are definitely different than typical interviews. I did nearly 40 interviews at OCI, and I was glad to have the practice. Under a pre-select system, you might only get a handful of screeners. That's not much margin for error.

There's debate about whether you can turn what would have been a ding at the pre-select stage into a CB on the powers of your screener alone. Firms don't seem to be homogenous to me in how they make hiring decisions, so I have to assume some firms are just going to straight ding you if they would not have pre-selected you, and others are more holistic. To me, that seems to mean that for the majority of the class (the bottom 3/4s or so) lottery system gives them at least a slightly better shot at a job.


40 is a lot... isnt it? Doesnt UVA also have a partial lottery?
Is there any benefit to the pre select besides not wasting the firm/students time? Because I am with you, I feel like once I am in the interview my chances of getting the job go up greatly, if the firm is even looking after seeing my grades

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:23 pm

quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.

this is, of course, nonsense

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:23 pm

quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.


Why are you such a troll? Duke wasnt in the options, and no it does not place better than UVA or Michigan

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:24 pm

IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.

this is, of course, nonsense


Most of his posts are

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:24 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:40 is a lot... isnt it? Doesnt UVA also have a partial lottery?
Is there any benefit to the pre select besides not wasting the firm/students time? Because I am with you, I feel like once I am in the interview my chances of getting the job go up greatly, if the firm is even looking after seeing my grades

Some people have said they feel more confident in pre-selected interviews.

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby quakeroats » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:27 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.


Why are you such a troll? Duke wasnt in the options, and no it does not place better than UVA or Michigan


In New York, in this economy it certainly does. Having twice as many students to place at Michigan and Virginia is a serious liability.

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby 005618502 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:30 pm

quakeroats wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.


Why are you such a troll? Duke wasnt in the options, and no it does not place better than UVA or Michigan


In New York, in this economy it certainly does. Having twice as many students to place at Michigan and Virginia is a serious liability.


Its all about class rank. I would rather be ranked NUMBER 40 in my class at UVA/Mich than at Duke. But no one cares about that, its about rank and the curve. There are to many NYC firms to say that UVA/Mich kids are solely hurting each other

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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby johansantana21 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:31 pm

quakeroats wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.


Why are you such a troll? Duke wasnt in the options, and no it does not place better than UVA or Michigan


In New York, in this economy it certainly does. Having twice as many students to place at Michigan and Virginia is a serious liability.


It does seem like smaller class sizes are helping out recently.

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:36 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.


Why are you such a troll? Duke wasnt in the options, and no it does not place better than UVA or Michigan


In New York, in this economy it certainly does. Having twice as many students to place at Michigan and Virginia is a serious liability.


It does seem like smaller class sizes are helping out recently.

Basis? Smaller classes seem to lead to greater fluctuations in the hiring stats.

It's true that firms like to collect a few students from all the top schools, but firms aren't going to go deeper into Duke then they would have otherwise just to grab a Duke kid.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:36 pm

IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.

this is, of course, nonsense

+1, loltroll

Penn is possibly slightly better than the others and I would personally take M over V because of the shitshow at OCI this year

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Veyron
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby Veyron » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:38 pm

I dunno about M and V but we did pretty good this year.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:47 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.

this is, of course, nonsense


Most of his posts are

PSA: quakeroats once tried to show Duke was better than UVA for top DC firms by looking at alums in firms in the V10 (including WLRK, CSM, etc. that don't even have DC offices).

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quakeroats
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby quakeroats » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:54 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
IAFG wrote:
quakeroats wrote:Penn then Duke then Virginia then a drop off then Michigan.

this is, of course, nonsense


Most of his posts are

PSA: quakeroats once tried to show Duke was better than UVA for top DC firms by looking at alums in firms in the V10 (including WLRK, CSM, etc. that don't even have DC offices).


I did something like that, but always after giving a disclaimer. The only thing I did (and still) stand behind is the New York numbers.

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby BiglawOrBust » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:00 pm

Is that a selftar, quakeroats?

chicagohopeful
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby chicagohopeful » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:03 pm

DFW FTW

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Michigan vs Penn vs UVA for NYC Biglaw

Postby BiglawOrBust » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:06 pm

chicagohopeful wrote:DFW FTW


Dallas Fort Worth?




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