WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

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zarathustra25
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WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:56 pm

I just want to get some reasoned opinions on what might be the best option in terms of job prospects, assuming I land somewhere in the middle of the class. Job type is not a concern, only salary. Geography only matters in so far as I want the market in which finding and keeping a job might be easiest.

Would it be better to attend WashU at sticker, Davis or William and Mary likely at sticker, or Iowa with 3 years of in-state tuition and likely a little money? I have had difficulty finding more detailed job placement stats, especially with Iowa and Davis, which I would assume based on basically no reasoning at all are close enough to equivalent in their regions that the cost of Davis would not be justified. Being from St. Louis originally, I know that the school is very highly regarded among non-lawyers in the area. Any thoughts? What about Minnesota, if out-of-state but given 5 - 10K/year? For now, I am leaning heavily to Iowa due to costs and having a support structure here if I fail entirely. Thanks in advance for any helpful responses.

Related question: I've checked around on this board and been to lawschooltransparency.com, but are there any other good resources for finding realistic information about job prospects at these schools?

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cinephile
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby cinephile » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:24 am

How do you know you'll be attending at sticker? They might send out financial aid letters later.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:40 am

I don't see my numbers ( 163, 3.8 ) as good enough for decent aid anywhere but Iowa, where I'm in-state and have a GPA that I think will get me money. This is all assumption, at this point. I don't have the money to apply to all of these, so I'm looking for advice on where to direct my money.
Last edited by zarathustra25 on Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gail
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby Gail » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:48 am

Did you get into WUSTL?

Nevermind, actually.

Go to Iowa. You have connections to Iowa, you have a not insignificant chance of money at Iowa - and at least in-state - and you'd be attending the best school in Iowa (not so for Davis or W&M). If you do really well at Iowa you can get Chicago, possibly.


The only other consideration I had was WUSTL. But... 46K tuiton vs 26K tuition (at worst)? Not a question. Enjoy Iowa.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:50 am

Gail wrote:Did you get into WUSTL?

Nevermind, actually.

Go to Iowa. You have connections to Iowa, you have a not insignificant chance of money at Iowa - and at least in-state - and you'd be attending the best school in Iowa (not so for Davis or W&M). If you do really well at Iowa you can get Chicago, possibly.


The only other consideration I had was WUSTL. But... 46K tuiton vs 26K tuition (at worst)? Not a question. Enjoy Iowa.


That's how I'm leaning right now. My only concern is that my friend is a 3L who got a 178 LSAT, has done pretty well there on full-ride, and says almost no one has a job from OCI. Of course, she knows people at WUSTL who have said the same things about their situation, so I'm just hoping things pick up for the 2015 class.

gdh
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby gdh » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:57 am

It all depends on where you want to practice. I have a cousin who graduated from WUSTL and had significant difficulty finding a legal job outside of doc review. At the end of the day none of the schools are going to have national weight so you've got to look at where you want to live. Can you imagine the prospect of living in Iowa? I see this as a two school choice: WUSTL/W&M depending on where you want to practice.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:05 pm

Iowa is actually a really nice place to live, believe it or not. I love Des Moines. My friend told me, though, that for whatever reason Drake grads seem to do better within this city. Probably an alumni thing. My only concerns with staying here was my guess that the market isn't as solid here and I've heard around this board that the chances of Chicago/Minneapolis is, or at least has become lately, pretty slim from Iowa. If I am wrong and the Iowa market is solid, then I'd be very happy sticking around. Document review would not really be my target after 3 years of law school, regardless of my debt.

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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:17 pm

National Law Journal (NLJ 250) tracks placenment into the nation's largest 250 law firms by law school. NLJ 250 placement for 2010 shows:

#25) WashUStL 18.96%
#28) Wm. & Mary 15.42%
#29) UC-Davis 15.34%
#37) Iowa 12.2%

Based on these placement numbers, you need to determine where you want to work after law school and to compare total cost of attendance for each school after accepted. Many posters are likely to suggest that none of these law schools are worth sticker price in your situation. Assuming sticker at all, then your Iowa in-state tuition may be the best option if you are willing to live & work in Iowa or nearby after graduation. Is retaking the LSAT an option that you have considered ?

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:25 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:National Law Journal (NLJ 250) tracks placenment into the nation's largest 250 law firms by law school. NLJ 250 placement for 2010 shows:

#25) WashUStL 18.96%
#28) Wm. & Mary 15.42%
#29) UC-Davis 15.34%
#37) Iowa 12.2%

Based on these placement numbers, you need to determine where you want to work after law school and to compare total cost of attendance for each school after accepted. Many posters are likely to suggest that none of these law schools are worth sticker price in your situation. Assuming sticker at all, then your Iowa in-state tuition may be the best option if you are willing to live & work in Iowa or nearby after graduation. Is retaking the LSAT an option that you have considered ?


I have actually seriously considered retaking the LSAT, but I am not financially well-situated and would need to find a job ASAP and discuss possibilities of deferring some fairly sizable UG debt for a year, if I do. My plan as of right now is to apply to Iowa with the expectation of getting in, then apply to super reach schools I'd love to go to, like Berkeley and UVA ED. If only Iowa works out, which I suspect will be the case, then I will seriously sit down and decide whether I want to attend given the offered financial aid, or spend several months brushing up with the LG Bible, retaking, and applying next cycle.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby Kabuo » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:41 pm

*

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:50 pm

Kabuo wrote:*

I have been lurking around this board for a while and have seen the asterisk before, but I am not sure what it means. I am guessing it does not mean: "You are on the right track. Good plan and good luck" or anything similar. Enlighten me.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby Kabuo » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:56 pm

zarathustra25 wrote:
Kabuo wrote:*

I have been lurking around this board for a while and have seen the asterisk before, but I am not sure what it means. I am guessing it does not mean: "You are on the right track. Good plan and good luck" or anything similar. Enlighten me.


PM'd.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:04 pm

Kabuo wrote:
zarathustra25 wrote:
Kabuo wrote:*

I have been lurking around this board for a while and have seen the asterisk before, but I am not sure what it means. I am guessing it does not mean: "You are on the right track. Good plan and good luck" or anything similar. Enlighten me.


PM'd.

Thanks a lot. I messaged back and I appreciate it.

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cinephile
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby cinephile » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:26 pm

zarathustra25 wrote: I don't have the money to apply to all of these, so I'm looking for advice on where to direct my money.


One of the things I regret about my cycle is that I didn't apply more broadly. I didn't have much money either, but getting into more schools would've let me negotiate more scholarship money later.
Can you try getting the LSAC fee waiver, or applying for fee waivers at individual schools?

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Gail
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby Gail » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:17 pm

gdh wrote:It all depends on where you want to practice. I have a cousin who graduated from WUSTL and had significant difficulty finding a legal job outside of doc review. At the end of the day none of the schools are going to have national weight so you've got to look at where you want to live. Can you imagine the prospect of living in Iowa? I see this as a two school choice: WUSTL/W&M depending on where you want to practice.


Wow. Dick.

Not everyone was born in the Bronx and would simply die if they ever had to live 50 miles near a corn field.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:01 pm

cinephile wrote:
zarathustra25 wrote: I don't have the money to apply to all of these, so I'm looking for advice on where to direct my money.


One of the things I regret about my cycle is that I didn't apply more broadly. I didn't have much money either, but getting into more schools would've let me negotiate more scholarship money later.
Can you try getting the LSAC fee waiver, or applying for fee waivers at individual schools?


I actually did get the fee waiver, but to give you an idea of my situation: I am currently receiving government food assistance and attend school with 0 EFC, qualifying for work study. I have one unpaid internship with the Attorney General and a research assistant gig with my adviser that pays 9 dollars an hour. My plan right now is to hit up the plasma center for app money, in addition to gas, cigarette, and rent money. By mid-January I will have enough money to apply everywhere that I want, but based on my reading in this forum and of the application acceptance graphs Ken's posted, it looks like mid-January is going to be too late at all schools but safeties. To be perfectly honest, I did not plan well for this cycle at all and taking a year off is the best bet, but I still think I'm going to apply to at least Iowa and 3 other schools, because those first 4 are free. I'm then going to review my options, and if it looks like taking a year off is realistic and I am able to find a better paying job and figure out what I have to do to defer UG loans so interest and payments aren't due throughout law school, I will certainly do that.

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cinephile
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby cinephile » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:24 pm

If you're male, sperm donation is also an option. I'm kind of serious.

Anyway, good luck this cycle and next if you decide to reapply.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:34 pm

cinephile wrote:If you're male, sperm donation is also an option. I'm kind of serious.

Anyway, good luck this cycle and next if you decide to reapply.


Haha, man, I tried the sperm donation thing because it is big money and I was rejected due to my height. Apparently, women want tall babies and I am only 5'9. Being a member of Mensa is apparently less desirable a trait than ensuring they'll have a baby that can have a shot at being high school quarterback. Given that taller people are known to make more money on average, perhaps this makes sense.

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Gail
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby Gail » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:25 pm

zarathustra25 wrote:
cinephile wrote:If you're male, sperm donation is also an option. I'm kind of serious.

Anyway, good luck this cycle and next if you decide to reapply.


Haha, man, I tried the sperm donation thing because it is big money and I was rejected due to my height. Apparently, women want tall babies and I am only 5'9. Being a member of Mensa is apparently less desirable a trait than ensuring they'll have a baby that can have a shot at being high school quarterback. Given that taller people are known to make more money on average, perhaps this makes sense.


I want short babies myself. Big babies sound more painful.

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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby charliep » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:33 pm

op, is that a derrida quote?

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:56 pm

charliep wrote:op, is that a derrida quote?


No, but you're actually very, very close. It's Nietzsche from "On Truth and Lies in a Non-Moral Sense," which if I ever go to grad school for rhetoric, I will force all of my Derrideans to read first thing.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby Kabuo » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:00 pm

zarathustra25 wrote:
cinephile wrote:If you're male, sperm donation is also an option. I'm kind of serious.

Anyway, good luck this cycle and next if you decide to reapply.


Haha, man, I tried the sperm donation thing because it is big money and I was rejected due to my height. Apparently, women want tall babies and I am only 5'9. Being a member of Mensa is apparently less desirable a trait than ensuring they'll have a baby that can have a shot at being high school quarterback. Given that taller people are known to make more money on average, perhaps this makes sense.


How much big money are we talking? I think I'm too much of an emotional wuss to go through with it (for fear of meeting the kid, basically), but is it enough to justify joining Mensa? This might be important info to put in one of the Mensa bashing threads, if so.

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cinephile
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby cinephile » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:05 pm

^ There are fliers posted around my law schools that say up to $1,200 a month.

Makes me wish I were a guy, to be honest. Retrieving eggs is just too difficult.

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zarathustra25
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby zarathustra25 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:42 pm

Kabuo wrote:
zarathustra25 wrote:
cinephile wrote:If you're male, sperm donation is also an option. I'm kind of serious.

Anyway, good luck this cycle and next if you decide to reapply.


Haha, man, I tried the sperm donation thing because it is big money and I was rejected due to my height. Apparently, women want tall babies and I am only 5'9. Being a member of Mensa is apparently less desirable a trait than ensuring they'll have a baby that can have a shot at being high school quarterback. Given that taller people are known to make more money on average, perhaps this makes sense.


How much big money are we talking? I think I'm too much of an emotional wuss to go through with it (for fear of meeting the kid, basically), but is it enough to justify joining Mensa? This might be important info to put in one of the Mensa bashing threads, if so.


Ha out here it is big money, I don't remember how much, but I remember being shocked when I read it. I was saying apparently they don't care that I qualified for Mensa, preferring instead someone taller. I bash MENSA as elitist bullsh*t myself, that's why I said qualified--I'd never join a club just to play Boggle with people at monthly meetings. Saying that was just short for saying, apparently couples are not nearly as concerned with getting sperm from someone who has shown a record of some modicum of intelligence and ambition, if it is a choice between that and the prospect of having an athletically-inclined, taller child.

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FUBAR
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Re: WUSTL Sticker/UC-D Sticker/W&M sticker/Iowa in-state $?

Postby FUBAR » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm

Iowa is TCR.




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