T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
SehMeSerrious
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:34 am

T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby SehMeSerrious » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:41 pm

To the well-meaning trolls: Yes, yes, I know international law doesn't exist, human rights law doesn't exist, etc. etc.

Now, I was looking at the T14 and trying to see my changes for them, playing around with the predictors and looking at the 75 percentiles and whatnot, and the schools that I had a strong chance of getting into based on my GPA and my realistic LSAT range (still practicing) were law schools that I didn't know much about.

I'm doing a graduate program next year that will give me between one to two more years to study for the LSAT and apply. I have decent softs, but I know it's mostly a numbers game.


So far, Cornell seems to be the safest school to get into from the T14, but I honestly don't know much about their program or reputation aside from a quick glance at the TLS info page. How are students in PI there?

Based on this:
http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/

I'll have a strong chance at everything from Penn through Georgetown (7-14), with "admits" at Penn, Michigan, Northwestern, and Georgetown if I ED, and Cornell consistently comes up as admit.

Within the bottom half of the T14, does rank really matter over geography and specialization? Are any of these schools more insular than others? (For example, how hard would it be to go from Penn, Michigan, or NU to DC?)

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby IAFG » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:47 pm

For "off the beaten path" gigs like this, I would want to be in the cities where the most orgs and professionals are, so you can get lots of exposure, connections, and generally be in the right place at the right time. Sounds like DC is the place for you.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:47 pm

Michigan has a large PI contingent.

User avatar
SehMeSerrious
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:34 am

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby SehMeSerrious » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:26 pm

IAFG - yeah, it definitely seems like Georgetown and maybe UVA is the way to go. The only thing is the LSP is giving me a tough time with Georgetown numbers - I don't know how accurate it is, but Georgetown actually seems harder to get into than schools that are ranked even six places above it. I heard that they're getting more stringent about acceptance, so I don't know, but I will probably ED it when I do apply. I think you're right about the right time/place thing, I've gotten my best jobs and opportunities from that.

blowhard - I've heard that as well, and Michigan has the added bonus of having some great area studies graduate programs that relate to my interests and undergrad background and experience, and I might be able to work with them create some good opportunities from it. The state and region also have programs that I might be interested in. My only concern is this:

jpal13 wrote:* Lack of a major legal market (unless you want to count its proximity to Detroit which I do not), which might make it necessary for me to travel in summer to work or have limited options when I want to work during 2L and 3Ll

What types of PI do they place well in, and how hard would it be to get positions in DC or NY?

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:12 pm

SehMeSerrious wrote:IAFG - yeah, it definitely seems like Georgetown and maybe UVA is the way to go. The only thing is the LSP is giving me a tough time with Georgetown numbers - I don't know how accurate it is, but Georgetown actually seems harder to get into than schools that are ranked even six places above it. I heard that they're getting more stringent about acceptance, so I don't know, but I will probably ED it when I do apply. I think you're right about the right time/place thing, I've gotten my best jobs and opportunities from that.

blowhard - I've heard that as well, and Michigan has the added bonus of having some great area studies graduate programs that relate to my interests and undergrad background and experience, and I might be able to work with them create some good opportunities from it. The state and region also have programs that I might be interested in. My only concern is this:

jpal13 wrote:* Lack of a major legal market (unless you want to count its proximity to Detroit which I do not), which might make it necessary for me to travel in summer to work or have limited options when I want to work during 2L and 3Ll

What types of PI do they place well in, and how hard would it be to get positions in DC or NY?


Most of our PI people go to NYC/DC/LA. Very very few of our grads stay in MI. Michigan places the vast percentage of its people out of state. By pure percentages in any given city it appears we don't, but that's because our grads self-select to so many major markets. (DC/NYC/Chicago/LA/San Fran/Boston). We may not dominate any one city, but I'm not sure how that'd help you. There aren't that many PI jobs in any one city so portability is key. I'm sure grades matter, but that is true at any school.

Very few people work during LS which that poster seems to be choosing based upon...so I wouldn't personally worry about that. You will need to relocate to whatever market you want for summer but that's not really a big deal.

Also, they are in every kind of PI you can think of. Gov, prosecutors, non-profits, NGOs, etc.

You should really be comparing based off of LRAP, funding for PI summers, etc.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby IAFG » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:23 pm

Maybe very few people work during LS at Michigan (and maybe they don't at Michigan because they don't have local opportunities to do so?), but lots of people do at Northwestern.

I know people who worked at firms during the semester, several people who worked for agencies (DOJ, EPA, CFTC), and something like a dozen people extern for a judge during school each semester. Also, the "clinic" I work for now mostly places people at a nonprofit here in Chicago for 1-2 semesters.

It's not as useful for firms that are just hiring on credentials, but having access, credibility and connections matters more for the sort of work OP is talking about.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:31 pm

IAFG wrote:Maybe very few people work during LS at Michigan (and maybe they don't at Michigan because they don't have local opportunities to do so?), but lots of people do at Northwestern.

I know people who worked at firms during the semester, several people who worked for agencies (DOJ, EPA, CFTC), and something like a dozen people extern for a judge during school each semester. Also, the "clinic" I work for now mostly places people at a nonprofit here in Chicago for 1-2 semesters.

It's not as useful for firms that are just hiring on credentials, but having access, credibility and connections matters more for the sort of work OP is talking about.


I was speaking more to PI people than people working a firms, judges, etc. Are PI people working during the year in PI? We have clinics 2/3L and arrangements with most of the local non-profits that provide volunteer opportunities but I doubt many PI people are getting paid during.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby IAFG » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:42 pm

Not for pay (other than the firms) but they're getting the exposure and connections that can turn into jobs.

International NGOs are a hard nut to crack, but DC is going to give you the best access to that world.

Of course, if you're going to close some doors (like better biglaw opps) you better know damned well this is really, truly what you want to do (like having actually worked in this sector), not just some vague guesses based on internet research.

User avatar
whitman
Posts: 819
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:08 am

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby whitman » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:01 pm

Does anyone know anything about Duke in relation to this thread. They have a semester in DC program that could be a nice "in" for DC connections.

freestallion
Posts: 944
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby freestallion » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:26 pm

Wouldn't NYU and Berkeley be very good for public interest? NYU seems to be top-notch in its public interest support/international support and would also give you access to an amazing city with tons of opportunities to network, intern during the school year. Sounds like a much better option than Gtown because of the school's prestige, location, and opportunities.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby IAFG » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:29 pm

freestallion wrote:Wouldn't NYU and Berkeley be very good for public interest? NYU seems to be top-notch in its public interest support/international support and would also give you access to an amazing city with tons of opportunities to network, intern during the school year. Sounds like a much better option than Gtown because of the school's prestige, location, and opportunities.

Definitely true but OP specifically limited to 7-14

freestallion
Posts: 944
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby freestallion » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:35 pm

IAFG wrote:
freestallion wrote:Wouldn't NYU and Berkeley be very good for public interest? NYU seems to be top-notch in its public interest support/international support and would also give you access to an amazing city with tons of opportunities to network, intern during the school year. Sounds like a much better option than Gtown because of the school's prestige, location, and opportunities.

Definitely true but OP specifically limited to 7-14

Ah, sorry. Then I say that Berkeley would also be a good bet, if OP gets in. I honestly don't think UVA would be a very good bet for public interest. I looked through their admitted student packet I received in the mail and they listed ALL the positions that recent grads had and very, very few had taken public interest jobs.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby IAFG » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:37 pm

freestallion wrote:
IAFG wrote:
freestallion wrote:Wouldn't NYU and Berkeley be very good for public interest? NYU seems to be top-notch in its public interest support/international support and would also give you access to an amazing city with tons of opportunities to network, intern during the school year. Sounds like a much better option than Gtown because of the school's prestige, location, and opportunities.

Definitely true but OP specifically limited to 7-14

Ah, sorry. Then I say that Berkeley would also be a good bet, if OP gets in. I honestly don't think UVA would be a very good bet for public interest. I looked through their admitted student packet I received in the mail and they listed ALL the positions that recent grads had and very, very few had taken public interest jobs.

I don't think that should be a consideration.

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3139
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:52 pm

Just about everyone I know at NYU who is doing public interest work will graduate with multiple semesters' worth of relevant term time internships, clinical work, etc. I can't say with certainty how much it will help with the post-graduation job search, but I have a hard time imagining it won't be a huge advantage. Nothing against Michigan, but I don't get the argument that access to non-profits during the school year doesn't matter. I would give urban schools (NYU (apply anyway), Penn, Northwestern, Berkeley, Georgetown) a definite boost for offering these opportunities.

EdgarWinter
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:47 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby EdgarWinter » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:55 pm

.
Last edited by EdgarWinter on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
SehMeSerrious
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:34 am

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby SehMeSerrious » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:27 pm

IAFG wrote:
freestallion wrote:Wouldn't NYU and Berkeley be very good for public interest? NYU seems to be top-notch in its public interest support/international support and would also give you access to an amazing city with tons of opportunities to network, intern during the school year. Sounds like a much better option than Gtown because of the school's prestige, location, and opportunities.

Definitely true but OP specifically limited to 7-14

Yeah, I guess I was too safe about what schools to look into.

Honestly, if you guys have any advice for 3-6, then please let me know. I'm just a little pessimistic about how high my LSAT would be but I guess you never know, and I heard some of these schools take a more holistic approach to admissions. NYU sounds great from what I did hear so far, what about Berkeley? What types of programs and opportunities do they have?

Someone just told me about Michigan's Geneva program and it sounds amazing; does anyone else know anything about that?

User avatar
hyakku
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:35 pm

Re: T14 for Public Interest and International NGOs

Postby hyakku » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:15 am

I can't tell you specifically about Michigan's Geneva program, but I spent time working there over the summer. I was fortunate enough to be with a few other undergrads workingin various organizations, some of which are the same ones listed on Michigan's site. I met a few grad / law students while I was out there, and yes, the opportunities are incredible. I've had lunch with diplomats, am pretty friendly with a saudi foreign minister, and made so many other connections and had experiences that were invaluable. I also see that they offer opportunities in sectors ranging from IML to more rudimentary HR issues so I'm sure their program is even more comprehensive and phenomenonal. if you are thinking about it, I think it's the perfect opportunity to really experience many aspects of international law as you get exposed to so many different facets of the field (migration, economics, education, etc.)




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests