How is this the case?

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005618502
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

How is this the case?

Postby 005618502 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:29 pm

This site used to be all about T14 or bust. Which I wasnt in much disagreement with.

I dont understand how we are now telling people that some T10 schools are not always worth sticker..... How is MVPB not worth sticker? People, besides many on TLS, dream at the opportunity to go to these schools. Dont most of the students at these schools pay sticker?

With so many schools I dont see how we say these things. I totally agree with telling people not to go to St. Mary's Law school if not on full scholly (no-stip), even schools in the 30's. But not T14? not T10?

Not everyone can realistically get their LSAT above 170 (especially those who struggle with RC).

Are things really that bad? When I look at the link below, I dont see how this is the right advice?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681

(I will be going to T14 (lower) paying sticker, unless need based comes in)

rckybbby
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:43 am

Re: How is this the case?

Postby rckybbby » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:55 pm

I don't know what is worth sticker and what isn't, but i will say that some folks seem to be very near-sighted in their assessment of the legal profession. some posters feel that the current economy is a reason not to attend law school (i.e. when someone says "i wouldn't do that in this economy"). They are making a 50 year decision based on a 3 year recession. kinda stupid. I know the economy sucks, but I also know that it is cyclical.

to be clear, i am not saying that anyone should take on loads of debt for shitty prospects or that any school is/isn't worth it. i'm just sayin'

005618502
Posts: 2577
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Re: How is this the case?

Postby 005618502 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:57 pm

Anyone else?

I tend to have the viewpoint that any T14 is worth sticker. Even Vandy/UCLA at sticker isnt a terrible option in my mind...

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bk1
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Re: How is this the case?

Postby bk1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:01 pm

It is a very reasonable argument to say that the risk of $250k+ debt is not worth it when there is at least a 1/3 chance in not getting the kind of job that makes paying it back in a reasonable amount of time feasible.

Some would say that if you can get a T14 acceptance you can probably get a full ride or close to it to a top regional school and that that is a much better idea since you aren't gambling as much.

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cinephile
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Re: How is this the case?

Postby cinephile » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:14 pm

rckybbby wrote:They are making a 50 year decision


:shock:

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vanwinkle
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Re: How is this the case?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:28 pm

It's about risk. Nobody is saying you 100% can't get a job worth the $200K debt if you go to one of these schools. Far from it, many do make it work. The problem is that even at the T14 level now, the odds have gotten poor enough that it's not worth the risk.

What would you consider acceptable odds if your goal was, say, getting a job paying over $100K? 2/3? 1/2? It used to be that over 90% of T14 grads who wanted $100K+ after graduation got it (excluding those who chose lower-paying PI/gov't jobs). Now, for those who want it, it seems like 1/3 to 1/2 don't get it, even at the T14.

Also, the consequences of ending up in that latter group is worse now. It used to be that folks who had poor grades or interviewed poorly could still find work, perhaps in smaller local firms, perhaps in PI/gov't, just off the strength of their T14 name/connections. Now, many of the low-pay jobs are competitive, with thousands of grads with solid grades and PI experience fighting for the few entry-level openings still out there.

Legal aid budgets are dwindling. Governments are imposing hiring freezes and laying off attorneys who then compete with new grads for open jobs. The problem isn't just the risk of not landing BigLaw; it's also the risk of not being able to find anything else either.

rckybbby wrote:I don't know what is worth sticker and what isn't, but i will say that some folks seem to be very near-sighted in their assessment of the legal profession. some posters feel that the current economy is a reason not to attend law school (i.e. when someone says "i wouldn't do that in this economy"). They are making a 50 year decision based on a 3 year recession. kinda stupid. I know the economy sucks, but I also know that it is cyclical.

OCI hiring begins the first week of 2L fall. A new law student faces their biggest hiring decisions just 12 months after they start. It's very difficult to move up into a big law firm if your can't get there from OCI, and I mean ever. And like I said above, non-OCI options are tighter too.

The legal market is cyclical, but in lean or boom times it always hires attorneys based on their resume and past employers. A good starting job can make a career, and a failure to find real legal work can break it. If you're focused on the next 50 years, the smart thing to do is probably to wait a few years until hiring rebounds, and then make more money in the remaining 46-47.




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