gap between HYS and CCN

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chasgoose
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby chasgoose » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:13 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:I don't have time to respond to everything above. However, I only wanted to attend Chicago and Yale, and didn't apply to Harvard, NYU, Stanford, or Columbia. I don't think Chicago students necessarily choose Chicago because they didn't get into Harvard. The school has a reputation of being more friendly to students with families, conservative students, and those who particularly enjoy ideological discourse/diversity of opinion. Also, students who want a more small-school feel really only have two choices: Stanford and Chicago (unless they get into Yale). Anecdotally, I have a good number of friends who chose Chicago over Harvard with about equal financial packages.

My points were simply that Chicago has objectively better biglaw placement, long-term biglaw success, better Supreme Court placement, similar top A3 clerkship placement, and a great, non-diluted faculty.

I would like someone to find me empirics that contradict any of these assertions.


So "I don't have time to respond to everything above" = "I'm not going to respond to ANY responses to my initial argument, post some personal stuff and then simply repeat my factually-questionable statements from earlier..." Chicago must be objectively better at teaching argumentative skills too!

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ahduth
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby ahduth » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:23 pm

chasgoose wrote:So "I don't have time to respond to everything above" = "I'm not going to respond to ANY responses to my initial argument, post some personal stuff and then simply repeat my factually-questionable statements from earlier..." Chicago must be objectively better at teaching argumentative skills too!


Well they're obviously not teaching them how to drink - how uptight is this guy anyhow?

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Detrox
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Detrox » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:30 pm

Is it just me or are there certain schools, or at least their students, who are super obsessed with trying to place themselves in the next "tier," much more then their allegedly peer schools.

Specifically, on these boards, and a few other places I see so many arguments along the these repeated lines:

Chicago places equal to HYS it obviously should be HYSC!!! (Sometimes even Y > HC > S!) OR,

Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).

I readily admit bias due to choosing/attending NYU, and I remember when I was choosing law schools, I saw a great deal of threads by NYU students along the lines of "NYU is only kept below Chicago and Columbia due to its weak undergrad reputation and relatively new acquisitions wahhhh it should be HYS NCC wahh)! But these threads seem to have definitely died out.

Is this just my weird perception or do most of these ranking fights seem to be from students at a limited set of schools. I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl). Finally, what's the consensus on Boalt nowadays? When I was applying, I always thought it was HYSCCNB[b][/b]MVPDCNG, but now it seems that Boalt is more in the DCNG range? Just curious, sorry for semi-off topic rant.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:26 pm

Detrox wrote:Is it just me or are there certain schools, or at least their students, who are super obsessed with trying to place themselves in the next "tier," much more then their allegedly peer schools.

Specifically, on these boards, and a few other places I see so many arguments along the these repeated lines:

Chicago places equal to HYS it obviously should be HYSC!!! (Sometimes even Y > HC > S!) OR,

Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).

I readily admit bias due to choosing/attending NYU, and I remember when I was choosing law schools, I saw a great deal of threads by NYU students along the lines of "NYU is only kept below Chicago and Columbia due to its weak undergrad reputation and relatively new acquisitions wahhhh it should be HYS NCC wahh)! But these threads seem to have definitely died out.

Is this just my weird perception or do most of these ranking fights seem to be from students at a limited set of schools. I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl). Finally, what's the consensus on Boalt nowadays? When I was applying, I always thought it was HYSCCNB[b][/b]MVPDCNG, but now it seems that Boalt is more in the DCNG range? Just curious, sorry for semi-off topic rant.

Boalt has been falling, due in large part to their 1) unwillingness to game the rankings, 2) poor state of the legal economy in Cali, and 3) poor state of the UC system at this point.

WRT the rest: I think the schools at the margins (especially the top end of the margin, like M) of the subtiers are more likely to get up in arms about their relative positioning. I guess the other schools are just happy to be there.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:52 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
Detrox wrote:Is it just me or are there certain schools, or at least their students, who are super obsessed with trying to place themselves in the next "tier," much more then their allegedly peer schools.

Specifically, on these boards, and a few other places I see so many arguments along the these repeated lines:

Chicago places equal to HYS it obviously should be HYSC!!! (Sometimes even Y > HC > S!) OR,

Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).

I readily admit bias due to choosing/attending NYU, and I remember when I was choosing law schools, I saw a great deal of threads by NYU students along the lines of "NYU is only kept below Chicago and Columbia due to its weak undergrad reputation and relatively new acquisitions wahhhh it should be HYS NCC wahh)! But these threads seem to have definitely died out.

Is this just my weird perception or do most of these ranking fights seem to be from students at a limited set of schools. I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl). Finally, what's the consensus on Boalt nowadays? When I was applying, I always thought it was HYSCCNB[b][/b]MVPDCNG, but now it seems that Boalt is more in the DCNG range? Just curious, sorry for semi-off topic rant.

Boalt has been falling, due in large part to their 1) unwillingness to game the rankings, 2) poor state of the legal economy in Cali, and 3) poor state of the UC system at this point.

WRT the rest: I think the schools at the margins (especially the top end of the margin, like M) of the subtiers are more likely to get up in arms about their relative positioning. I guess the other schools are just happy to be there.

Boalt has been falling because they're still trading on a reputation that it no longer deserves, and it can't attract top students any more.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:55 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Detrox wrote:Is it just me or are there certain schools, or at least their students, who are super obsessed with trying to place themselves in the next "tier," much more then their allegedly peer schools.

Specifically, on these boards, and a few other places I see so many arguments along the these repeated lines:

Chicago places equal to HYS it obviously should be HYSC!!! (Sometimes even Y > HC > S!) OR,

Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).

I readily admit bias due to choosing/attending NYU, and I remember when I was choosing law schools, I saw a great deal of threads by NYU students along the lines of "NYU is only kept below Chicago and Columbia due to its weak undergrad reputation and relatively new acquisitions wahhhh it should be HYS NCC wahh)! But these threads seem to have definitely died out.

Is this just my weird perception or do most of these ranking fights seem to be from students at a limited set of schools. I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl). Finally, what's the consensus on Boalt nowadays? When I was applying, I always thought it was HYSCCNB[b][/b]MVPDCNG, but now it seems that Boalt is more in the DCNG range? Just curious, sorry for semi-off topic rant.

Boalt has been falling, due in large part to their 1) unwillingness to game the rankings, 2) poor state of the legal economy in Cali, and 3) poor state of the UC system at this point.

WRT the rest: I think the schools at the margins (especially the top end of the margin, like M) of the subtiers are more likely to get up in arms about their relative positioning. I guess the other schools are just happy to be there.

Boalt has been falling because they're still trading on a reputation that it no longer deserves, and it can't attract top students any more.

yeah, I guess it's more due to that

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Strange
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Strange » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:00 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Detrox wrote:Is it just me or are there certain schools, or at least their students, who are super obsessed with trying to place themselves in the next "tier," much more then their allegedly peer schools.

Specifically, on these boards, and a few other places I see so many arguments along the these repeated lines:

Chicago places equal to HYS it obviously should be HYSC!!! (Sometimes even Y > HC > S!) OR,

Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).

I readily admit bias due to choosing/attending NYU, and I remember when I was choosing law schools, I saw a great deal of threads by NYU students along the lines of "NYU is only kept below Chicago and Columbia due to its weak undergrad reputation and relatively new acquisitions wahhhh it should be HYS NCC wahh)! But these threads seem to have definitely died out.

Is this just my weird perception or do most of these ranking fights seem to be from students at a limited set of schools. I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl). Finally, what's the consensus on Boalt nowadays? When I was applying, I always thought it was HYSCCNB[b][/b]MVPDCNG, but now it seems that Boalt is more in the DCNG range? Just curious, sorry for semi-off topic rant.

Boalt has been falling, due in large part to their 1) unwillingness to game the rankings, 2) poor state of the legal economy in Cali, and 3) poor state of the UC system at this point.

WRT the rest: I think the schools at the margins (especially the top end of the margin, like M) of the subtiers are more likely to get up in arms about their relative positioning. I guess the other schools are just happy to be there.

Boalt has been falling because they're still trading on a reputation that it no longer deserves, and it can't attract top students any more.


Elaborate please?

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Veyron
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Veyron » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:58 pm

Strange wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
Detrox wrote:Is it just me or are there certain schools, or at least their students, who are super obsessed with trying to place themselves in the next "tier," much more then their allegedly peer schools.

Specifically, on these boards, and a few other places I see so many arguments along the these repeated lines:

Chicago places equal to HYS it obviously should be HYSC!!! (Sometimes even Y > HC > S!) OR,

Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).

I readily admit bias due to choosing/attending NYU, and I remember when I was choosing law schools, I saw a great deal of threads by NYU students along the lines of "NYU is only kept below Chicago and Columbia due to its weak undergrad reputation and relatively new acquisitions wahhhh it should be HYS NCC wahh)! But these threads seem to have definitely died out.

Is this just my weird perception or do most of these ranking fights seem to be from students at a limited set of schools. I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl). Finally, what's the consensus on Boalt nowadays? When I was applying, I always thought it was HYSCCNB[b][/b]MVPDCNG, but now it seems that Boalt is more in the DCNG range? Just curious, sorry for semi-off topic rant.

Boalt has been falling, due in large part to their 1) unwillingness to game the rankings, 2) poor state of the legal economy in Cali, and 3) poor state of the UC system at this point.

WRT the rest: I think the schools at the margins (especially the top end of the margin, like M) of the subtiers are more likely to get up in arms about their relative positioning. I guess the other schools are just happy to be there.

Boalt has been falling because they're still trading on a reputation that it no longer deserves, and it can't attract top students any more.


Elaborate please?


B doesn't have the money to do as much scholarship matching and numbers poaching as most of the rest of the T-14 anymore. Also, their tuition has gone thru the roof.

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rayiner
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby rayiner » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:46 pm

Re: Berkeley, I think it's a transient ITE thing. People on this board are pretty jobs-obsessed, and Berkeley has been hurting jobs-wise. Probably about 1/3 of all SA positions available are in NYC, and while all the big NYC firms go to MVPDNCG, a lot don't go all the way out to Berkeley. Meanwhile the Bay, which was never a huge legal market, got hammered ITE.

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ahduth
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby ahduth » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:51 pm

Detrox wrote:Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however), OR,

NYU obviously below CC, should be HYS > CC > NMVPB! (From Penn Michigan and Columbia students).


You agree that all this is credited though, right?

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:29 pm

Detrox wrote:Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however)

I don't think I've ever seen Michigan students claiming we're better than (or even equal to) NYU for NYC biglaw, only students saying that NYU's advantage is limited to NYC and that MVPBN are all very comparable outside of NYC. I've seen plenty of claims that P = N for NYC, but never Michigan. I think the only things Michigan students do are try to rebut bullshit anti-Michigan trolling memes, such as:

"Detroit's economy is dying (and it's only happening now, it hasn't been that way for 30 years), therefore Michigan is in decline and will be the next Boston College!"
or
"Michigan doesn't have a legal market, and now biglaw firms are only willing to recruit from top schools within 200 miles of their market, therefore Michigan is fucked!"
or
"The Chicago legal market is hurting, therefore Michigan is uniquely screwed out of every school in the T14!"
or
"The state of Michigan is running out of money and Michigan is a state school with a ton of its funding coming from the state, therefore Michigan is going to drop way down in the rankings!"

I kid you not, people say this kind of stupid shit regularly. All I've seen any Michigan poster do is try to clean up the mess.


Detrox wrote:I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl).

You must be new here. I'd like introduce you to a good friend of mine: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49603

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Bronte
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Bronte » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:44 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Detrox wrote:I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl).

You must be new here. I'd like introduce you to a good friend of mine: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49603


Not to mention that Virginia trolls once had a reign of terror unlike any other. That seems to have died down somewhat now though, although I don't spend much time in the admissions boards anymore.

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ahduth
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby ahduth » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:35 pm

Bronte wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Detrox wrote:I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl).

You must be new here. I'd like introduce you to a good friend of mine: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49603


Not to mention that Virginia trolls once had a reign of terror unlike any other. That seems to have died down somewhat now though, although I don't spend much time in the admissions boards anymore.


You guys are making this less fun; Michigan obviously places. I'll spring for a) making fun of NYU, b) making fun of CCN, c) making fun of Berkeley (although I would feel bad), or making fun Cornell for placing so high in the NLJ250 stats last year.

Making fun of Michigan is just... dull. Chicago firms eat it up, and NYC firms eat up, and... Michigan students just aren't so worried.

crazyblink653
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby crazyblink653 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:49 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:I don't have time to respond to everything above. However, I only wanted to attend Chicago and Yale, and didn't apply to Harvard, NYU, Stanford, or Columbia. I don't think Chicago students necessarily choose Chicago because they didn't get into Harvard. The school has a reputation of being more friendly to students with families, conservative students, and those who particularly enjoy ideological discourse/diversity of opinion. Also, students who want a more small-school feel really only have two choices: Stanford and Chicago (unless they get into Yale). Anecdotally, I have a good number of friends who chose Chicago over Harvard with about equal financial packages.

My points were simply that Chicago has objectively better biglaw placement, long-term biglaw success, better Supreme Court placement, similar top A3 clerkship placement, and a great, non-diluted faculty.

I would like someone to find me empirics that contradict any of these assertions.


umm no. http://www.leiterrankings.com/new/2010_ ... ment.shtml

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UnitarySpace
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby UnitarySpace » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:06 pm

just ignore this dood. nobody believes him anyway.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:11 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Detrox wrote:Penn and Michigan do just as well as CC and better then N who just has a stupid location advantage for NYC Biglaw, PM >= N!!! (Oddly don't see this from UVA however)

I don't think I've ever seen Michigan students claiming we're better than (or even equal to) NYU for NYC biglaw, only students saying that NYU's advantage is limited to NYC and that MVPBN are all very comparable outside of NYC. I've seen plenty of claims that P = N for NYC, but never Michigan. I think the only things Michigan students do are try to rebut bullshit anti-Michigan trolling memes, such as:

"Detroit's economy is dying (and it's only happening now, it hasn't been that way for 30 years), therefore Michigan is in decline and will be the next Boston College!"
or
"Michigan doesn't have a legal market, and now biglaw firms are only willing to recruit from top schools within 200 miles of their market, therefore Michigan is fucked!"
or
"The Chicago legal market is hurting, therefore Michigan is uniquely screwed out of every school in the T14!"
or
"The state of Michigan is running out of money and Michigan is a state school with a ton of its funding coming from the state, therefore Michigan is going to drop way down in the rankings!"

I kid you not, people say this kind of stupid shit regularly. All I've seen any Michigan poster do is try to clean up the mess.


Detrox wrote:I don't see much trolling from VBDCNG at all really about how schools are misranked amongst them (although there are the occassional Georgetown isn't good enough for T14 its just DC school from other DCN'ers or USC/Texas ppl).

You must be new here. I'd like introduce you to a good friend of mine: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49603

Oats is more an anti-M troll than anything

dontTazemeBrah
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby dontTazemeBrah » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:57 am

TaipeiMort wrote:I don't have time to respond to everything above. However, I only wanted to attend Chicago and Yale, and didn't apply to Harvard, NYU, Stanford, or Columbia. I don't think Chicago students necessarily choose Chicago because they didn't get into Harvard. The school has a reputation of being more friendly to students with families, conservative students, and those who particularly enjoy ideological discourse/diversity of opinion. Also, students who want a more small-school feel really only have two choices: Stanford and Chicago (unless they get into Yale). Anecdotally, I have a good number of friends who chose Chicago over Harvard with about equal financial packages.

My points were simply that Chicago has objectively better biglaw placement, long-term biglaw success, better Supreme Court placement, similar top A3 clerkship placement, and a great, non-diluted faculty.

I would like someone to find me empirics that contradict any of these assertions.


wow mr. delusional strikes again. i am sorry but most ppl don't pick schools based on family friendliness, conservative presence, and whatever the fuck diversity of opinion is. i am sure you "chose" chicago based on the "rigor" it offered.

no matter how many times you repeat it, chicago is not better than harvard you clown. are you mad that you are chinese and the chinese think of harvard as way better than chicago? why do you keep embarrassing yourself by spouting this nonsense every month on here? trust me bud, whoever tells you they picked chicago over harvard is lying.

thederangedwang
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby thederangedwang » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:01 am

dontTazemeBrah wrote: are you mad that you are chinese and the chinese think of harvard as way better than chicago? why do you keep embarrassing yourself by spouting this nonsense every month on here? trust me bud, whoever tells you they picked chicago over harvard is lying.


Coming from a mainland chinese guy, you might have succeeded at seriously pissing off Taipeimort if he's true to his name

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Flash
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Flash » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:15 am

thederangedwang wrote:
dontTazemeBrah wrote: are you mad that you are chinese and the chinese think of harvard as way better than chicago? why do you keep embarrassing yourself by spouting this nonsense every month on here? trust me bud, whoever tells you they picked chicago over harvard is lying.


Coming from a mainland chinese guy, you might have succeeded at seriously pissing off Taipeimort if he's true to his name

lololol

also TazemeBrah it's not worth bumping old threads to flame a user you don't like

hth.

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Borhas
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby Borhas » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:44 am

Y = Top Tier
S= Second Tier

Everything else is a third tier toilet or worse

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whitman
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby whitman » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:19 pm

DUKE.

That is all.

barry
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby barry » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:40 pm

Borhas wrote:Y = Top Tier
S= Second Tier

Everything else is a third tier toilet or worse


+1 haha, if you go to Y or S you are basically set even if you take all your exams blacked out wasted you will still be able to land a V100. CCN is a long way from YS maybe not so much H. YS>>>>H>>>>CC>N

062914123
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby 062914123 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:45 pm

Flash wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:
dontTazemeBrah wrote: are you mad that you are chinese and the chinese think of harvard as way better than chicago? why do you keep embarrassing yourself by spouting this nonsense every month on here? trust me bud, whoever tells you they picked chicago over harvard is lying.


Coming from a mainland chinese guy, you might have succeeded at seriously pissing off Taipeimort if he's true to his name

lololol

also TazemeBrah it's not worth bumping old threads to flame a user you don't like

hth.


looool I thought that rant looked familiar.

elmagic
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby elmagic » Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:46 pm

FOR GOD, FOR COUNTRY, AND FOR YALE

lawschoolgrapedme
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Re: gap between HYS and CCN

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:03 pm

barry wrote:
Borhas wrote:Y = Top Tier
S= Second Tier

Everything else is a third tier toilet or worse


+1 haha, if you go to Y or S you are basically set even if you take all your exams blacked out wasted you will still be able to land a V100. CCN is a long way from YS maybe not so much H. YS>>>>H>>>>CC>N


doesn't stttanford have a median lsat of 168/9 or something? No wonder they accepted me.




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