What is the best secondary legal market right now?

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Honeysuckle
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Honeysuckle » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:05 pm

Anyone privy to how the Philly market is faring?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:12 pm

TwelveBeeSicks wrote:From what I've heard, the state of Texas has priced themselves out of a lot of clients. They're very insular and have kept a lot of national firms from coming into the market. In doing so they've cut out some clients in terms of regulatory work that can be done in places like D.C.


Source? The following more national firms have offices in Houston and/or Dallas: Latham, Skadden, GDC, Weil, Jones Day, Akin Gump, etc.

I don't have much knowledge of other markets, but I always thought Houston/Dallas had a good amount of national firms. Is that wrong? How does this compare to other markets?

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Opie
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Opie » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:50 pm

Also keep in for places like Miami, you may be at a disadvantage if you don't speak Spanish.

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beach_terror
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby beach_terror » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:52 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:Anyone privy to how the Philly market is faring?

Not doing well. Most firms are taking between 2 and 10 SAs. A few are taking above 15, but not many.

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beach_terror
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby beach_terror » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:52 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:Anyone privy to how the Philly market is faring?

Not doing well. Most firms are taking between 2 and 10 SAs. A few are taking above 15, but not many.

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beachbum
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby beachbum » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:53 pm

Any news on St. Louis?

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Grizz
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:55 pm

Opie wrote:Also keep in for places like Miami, you may be at a disadvantage if you don't speak Spanish.

For large firms, not really.

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Duke Silver
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Duke Silver » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:57 pm

Anyone know about Columbus/Ohio markets in general?

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Opie
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Opie » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:59 pm

Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:Also keep in for places like Miami, you may be at a disadvantage if you don't speak Spanish.

For large firms, not really.


I'm not talking about getting hired, I'm talking about living there. I went a McDonald's once in Miami that had nobody that could speak English during lunch on a weekday. I had to use google to translate my order.

acrossthelake
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:01 pm

blowhard wrote:
minnbills wrote:
blowhard wrote:LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.


Boston is that hard?


I wasn't aiming for it so I don't know specific but I know a few people, including some with ties, that struck out of Boston altogether from several T10s. They were all top 1/3.


HLS's CSO strongly emphasizes the need for strong grades to be in Boston. That should give you an idea.

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Grizz
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:06 pm

Opie wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:Also keep in for places like Miami, you may be at a disadvantage if you don't speak Spanish.

For large firms, not really.


I'm not talking about getting hired, I'm talking about living there. I went a McDonald's once in Miami that had nobody that could speak English during lunch on a weekday. I had to use google to translate my order.

This is true.

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ahduth
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby ahduth » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:46 am

acrossthelake wrote:
blowhard wrote:
minnbills wrote:
blowhard wrote:LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.


Boston is that hard?


I wasn't aiming for it so I don't know specific but I know a few people, including some with ties, that struck out of Boston altogether from several T10s. They were all top 1/3.


HLS's CSO strongly emphasizes the need for strong grades to be in Boston. That should give you an idea.


Lol, a CSO "strongly emphasizing" strong grades.

It's like a general practitioner telling you it's important to be healthy. Sorry, anything coming out of a CSO is worth about as much as I can urinate after two, maybe three, beers. Thanks for playing though.

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beach_terror
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby beach_terror » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:05 am

Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Opie wrote:Also keep in for places like Miami, you may be at a disadvantage if you don't speak Spanish.

For large firms, not really.


I'm not talking about getting hired, I'm talking about living there. I went a McDonald's once in Miami that had nobody that could speak English during lunch on a weekday. I had to use google to translate my order.

This is true.

uno, dos, tres up to ocho should cover it.

acrossthelake
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:11 am

ahduth wrote:
Lol, a CSO "strongly emphasizing" strong grades.

It's like a general practitioner telling you it's important to be healthy. Sorry, anything coming out of a CSO is worth about as much as I can urinate after two, maybe three, beers. Thanks for playing though.


I've actually found CSO to be really helpful, and another poster on here who went through OCI already and who has the same person reported the same. And it was in comparison to other markets, not just saying grades were important in general. But you can be unnecessarily snarky about CSO officers you have no familiarity with.

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Blindmelon
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:37 pm

blowhard wrote:
minnbills wrote:
blowhard wrote:LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.


Boston is that hard?


I wasn't aiming for it so I don't know specific but I know a few people, including some with ties, that struck out of Boston altogether from several T10s. They were all top 1/3.


Boston has a surprisingly small number of bigfirm slots and has two strong regional schools. Outside of Harvard, BC, BU and UVA, there is very little diversity in schools represented - you'll only see an occasional sprinkling of Cornell/Nwestern/UMich, but even those students have extremely strong ties to the area.

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Blindmelon
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:46 pm

RE: Boston, there are only 3 firms with big class sizes -
Ropes: about 70
WH: about 32 (with 2 1Ls)
Goodwin: about 19

Outside of that you have:
Choate: about 15
FH: about 12
Mintz/Prosk/Bingham/Skadden/F+L: about 5 each
Cooley, Jones Day, Gunderson, Dechert, Latham, Weil: about 3 each
Greenberg, DLA Piper: nowadays 0

So I would guess (really rough estimate) around 200/250 SA spots in the city each year.

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minnbills
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby minnbills » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:49 pm

Blindmelon wrote:RE: Boston, there are only 3 firms with big class sizes -
Ropes: about 70
WH: about 32 (with 2 1Ls)
Goodwin: about 19

Outside of that you have:
Choate: about 15
FH: about 12
Mintz/Prosk/Bingham/Skadden/F+L: about 5 each
Cooley, Jones Day, Gunderson, Dechert, Latham, Weil: about 3 each
Greenberg, DLA Piper: nowadays 0

So I would guess (really rough estimate) around 200/250 SA spots in the city each year.


How many of these go to BC/BU students, do you think?

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chem
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby chem » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:51 pm

In terms of Nashville, would owning a house there be sufficient for a tie?

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Blindmelon
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:53 pm

minnbills wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:RE: Boston, there are only 3 firms with big class sizes -
Ropes: about 70
WH: about 32 (with 2 1Ls)
Goodwin: about 19

Outside of that you have:
Choate: about 15
FH: about 12
Mintz/Prosk/Bingham/Skadden/F+L: about 5 each
Cooley, Jones Day, Gunderson, Dechert, Latham, Weil: about 3 each
Greenberg, DLA Piper: nowadays 0

So I would guess (really rough estimate) around 200/250 SA spots in the city each year.


How many of these go to BC/BU students, do you think?


Again, totally ballparking it, but I would say half, with the caveat that some firms have favorites (e.g., GP loves BU but Ropes doesn't give BU much love).

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RVP11
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:54 pm

What's with our generation's obsession with Denver?

Also: how are we defining best? Most SAs? That's like asking us to name the world's tallest midget. Highest pay relative to cost of living? Somewhere in Texas. Best place to live? Somewhere sunny.

This basically boils down asking a bunch of strangers where they want to live one day. Because the best secondary market is whichever one you want to live in.

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RVP11
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:56 pm

Blindmelon wrote:Boston has a surprisingly small number of bigfirm slots


How is 250 small? Looks pretty strong relative to Chicago.

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Opie
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Opie » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:57 pm

RVP11 wrote:What's with our generation's obsession with Denver?

Also: how are we defining best? Most SAs? That's like asking us to name the world's tallest midget. Highest pay relative to cost of living? Somewhere in Texas. Best place to live? Somewhere sunny.

This basically boils down asking a bunch of strangers where they want to live one day. Because the best secondary market is whichever one you want to live in.


I think people want the "West Coast way of life" but know that CA is way expensive and every hipster in America already moved to Portland.

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RVP11
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:58 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
TwelveBeeSicks wrote:From what I've heard, the state of Texas has priced themselves out of a lot of clients. They're very insular and have kept a lot of national firms from coming into the market. In doing so they've cut out some clients in terms of regulatory work that can be done in places like D.C.


Source? The following more national firms have offices in Houston and/or Dallas: Latham, Skadden, GDC, Weil, Jones Day, Akin Gump, etc.

I don't have much knowledge of other markets, but I always thought Houston/Dallas had a good amount of national firms. Is that wrong? How does this compare to other markets?


Yeah, a big "LOL no" to TwelveBeeSicks. Firms from all over the country are clamoring to get a foothold in Houston. Latham and Simpson both dove in recently.

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beach_terror
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby beach_terror » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:58 pm

RVP11 wrote:Highest pay relative to cost of living? Somewhere in Texas. Best place to live? Somewhere sunny.

Delaware.

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Blindmelon
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:00 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:Boston has a surprisingly small number of bigfirm slots


How is 250 small? Looks pretty strong relative to Chicago.


Its probably more like 200 than the 200-250 range I gave (tried to account for firms I forgot about). How many are in Chicago? The Chicago bigfirm legal market is almost double the size (Chicago 7200 v. Boston 3400 http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2491269007).

In terms of number of bigfirm lawyers, Boston is only 300 more than Atlanta so its still tiny. Weird.




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