What is the best secondary legal market right now?

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Larry David
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What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Larry David » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:02 pm

Any insight into...
Houston
Dallas
New Orleans
Atlanta
Miami
Richmond/Charlotte/Raleigh
Nashville
Denver

03121202698008
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:03 pm

New Orleans is hard to break into and there is the whole civil law thing if you didn't go to a school that teaches it.

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Grizz
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:06 pm

Not ATL. Highly desirable, and only 100ish 2L SAs in the whole city. And they want ties.

Not Miami, for the same season, but only about 50 2L SAs in the whole city. And strong ties.

Not Nashville. Far fewer than 50 2L SAs, and they want strong ties.

hooma
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby hooma » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:08 pm

Curious about this too, especially Richmond. I wasn't able to turn much up researching...

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monkey85
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby monkey85 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:09 pm

What about Boston - is that considered secondary?

Great firms and quality of work; new york pay (somewhat new york hours); but more space to live in.

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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:14 pm

monkey85 wrote:What about Boston - is that considered secondary?

Great firms and quality of work; new york pay (somewhat new york hours); but more space to live in.


LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.

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Larry David
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Larry David » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:26 pm

blowhard wrote:New Orleans is hard to break into and there is the whole civil law thing if you didn't go to a school that teaches it.

is this a good thing for tulane/lsu or a bad?

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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:42 pm

Larry David wrote:
blowhard wrote:New Orleans is hard to break into and there is the whole civil law thing if you didn't go to a school that teaches it.

is this a good thing for tulane/lsu or a bad?


It's good for both but only so much as you have other ties to the city.

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Gail
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Gail » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:43 pm

blowhard wrote:New Orleans is hard to break into and there is the whole civil law thing if you didn't go to a school that teaches it.


Would going to school in Louisiana be the only necessary tie, or would you have to be born and bred too. I can't think that NOLA is THAT insular considering that its best school is made up primarily of non-Louisianans.

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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:46 pm

Gail wrote:
blowhard wrote:New Orleans is hard to break into and there is the whole civil law thing if you didn't go to a school that teaches it.


Would going to school in Louisiana be the only necessary tie, or would you have to be born and bred too. I can't think that NOLA is THAT insular considering that its best school is made up primarily of non-Louisianans.


From family that live there and are in LS...you need independent ties. It's extremely insular and has a good 'ole boys thing going on. It's also not that big of a market and a desirable city to live in so that will always create insularity.

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ahduth
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby ahduth » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:56 pm

blowhard wrote:
monkey85 wrote:What about Boston - is that considered secondary?

Great firms and quality of work; new york pay (somewhat new york hours); but more space to live in.


LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.


Anybody have the specifics about why Boston is so weird? I don't want to go... I'm just curious. Everything I've heard makes it sound mob run.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:00 pm

How do you define best?

The most SA's? The likelihood that you would be successful if you started your own firm there? The percentage of the population that is bar-passed lawyers?

Clarification is needed.

As far as ties to New Orleans is concerned, you can create your own ties during law school by working here over 1L summer and during 2L. As long as your work experiences here involve dealing with Louisiana law, you will be fine even if you don't really have any ties here.

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moandersen
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby moandersen » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:54 pm

NC legal market is small. Charlotte is hurting bad due to the banks, while Raleigh seems to be doing ok. However, Raleigh's market is smaller than Charlotte's. Raleigh also tends to look for local ties much more so than Charlotte.

So...both arent great choices.

American_in_China
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby American_in_China » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:05 pm

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Last edited by American_in_China on Mon May 28, 2012 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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minnbills
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby minnbills » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:12 pm

blowhard wrote:LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.


Boston is that hard?

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Grizz
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:17 pm

American_in_China wrote:Well, every secondary market seems to value ties very highly; its really not different from market to market.

If you're talking about health of the market, then Nashville and all of the Texas markets seems to be doing well. Atlanta seems pretty terrible right now. Don't know anything about Florida.


Nashville is on the upswing, but it was pretty small to begin with.

FL is HORRIBLE. Probably 125ish SA positions in the whole state. Heavily targeted by people from prestigious schools. Can be quite good 'ol boy (even more than just having ties). 11 law schools (LOL).

A good example for the decline in FL hiring is Tampa. Probably 25ish SA positions there (no more than 30). H&K Tampa alone used to hire 15ish back when the economy was good.

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Grizz
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:18 pm

American_in_China wrote:Well, every secondary market seems to value ties very highly; its really not different from market to market.


Some more than others. ATL? Not so bad. Nashville? VERY ties heavy.

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un-vordox
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby un-vordox » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:22 pm

I was hoping to see more about Denver, Pittsburgh, or the PNW here.

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stratocophic
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:22 pm

Grizz wrote:Not ATL. Highly desirable, and only 100ish 2L SAs in the whole city. And they want ties.

Not Miami, for the same season, but only about 50 2L SAs in the whole city. And strong ties.

Not Nashville. Far fewer than 50 2L SAs, and they want strong ties.
CR. ATL is like Chicago, only there are probably even fewer spots per person trying to break in. Nashville is almost a non-factor, and Florida's evidently unspeakable.

Honestly, the state of Texas is probably the answer. Doesn't seem super insular from my experience (I.e. they might believe you if you BS a little on reasons for the state), economy's still pretty good, pays on the NY scale while expecting fewer hours.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:32 pm

stratocophic wrote:
Grizz wrote:Not ATL. Highly desirable, and only 100ish 2L SAs in the whole city. And they want ties.

Not Miami, for the same season, but only about 50 2L SAs in the whole city. And strong ties.

Not Nashville. Far fewer than 50 2L SAs, and they want strong ties.
CR. ATL is like Chicago, only there are probably even fewer spots per person trying to break in. Nashville is almost a non-factor, and Florida's evidently unspeakable.

Honestly, the state of Texas is probably the answer. Doesn't seem super insular from my experience (I.e. they might believe you if you BS a little on reasons for the state), economy's still pretty good, pays on the NY scale while expecting fewer hours.


Texas has always had a reputation of being very insular (just read stuff about bigtex before the economy tanked). That said, hiring is picking up and there may be more spots to fill than in other markets. So there may be less people fighting over each spot. But that doesn't mean Texas firms are extremely open to "outsiders."

TwelveBeeSicks
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby TwelveBeeSicks » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:39 pm

From what I've heard, the state of Texas has priced themselves out of a lot of clients. They're very insular and have kept a lot of national firms from coming into the market. In doing so they've cut out some clients in terms of regulatory work that can be done in places like D.C.

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ben4847
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby ben4847 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:44 pm

Chicago is a pretty decent secondary market right now.

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Grizz
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby Grizz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:46 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
Grizz wrote:Not ATL. Highly desirable, and only 100ish 2L SAs in the whole city. And they want ties.

Not Miami, for the same season, but only about 50 2L SAs in the whole city. And strong ties.

Not Nashville. Far fewer than 50 2L SAs, and they want strong ties.
CR. ATL is like Chicago, only there are probably even fewer spots per person trying to break in. Nashville is almost a non-factor, and Florida's evidently unspeakable.

Honestly, the state of Texas is probably the answer. Doesn't seem super insular from my experience (I.e. they might believe you if you BS a little on reasons for the state), economy's still pretty good, pays on the NY scale while expecting fewer hours.


Texas has always had a reputation of being very insular (just read stuff about bigtex before the economy tanked). That said, hiring is picking up and there may be more spots to fill than in other markets. So there may be less people fighting over each spot. But that doesn't mean Texas firms are extremely open to "outsiders."


It's less insular than I expected. I know people who've swung TX sans ties if they can articulate a pretty good reason for being there. Good grades help too, but these people weren't LR grade-ons.

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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:53 pm

minnbills wrote:
blowhard wrote:LOL. Boston is extremely hard to break into...even from top 1/3 at T14. You're not thinking secondary enough. Think Baltimore, Charlotte, Denver, Wilmington (DE), Detroit, Toledo, etc.


Boston is that hard?


I wasn't aiming for it so I don't know specific but I know a few people, including some with ties, that struck out of Boston altogether from several T10s. They were all top 1/3.

splitster1221
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Re: What is the best secondary legal market right now?

Postby splitster1221 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:58 pm

Anyone have any info on Denver specifically?




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