From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

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HeavenWood
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:25 pm

Veyron wrote:
2) Going to any school does not guarantee you Big Law. U of Chicago places the most people (percentage wise – I will come back to this) in NLJ 250 according to LST. Yet, over 40% there do not get Big Law. Further, I know countless people at way better schools than GW without Big Law. Not everyone can get Big Law. Did this student really think everyone should get Big Law and everyone he/she knows should get Big Law at a T20? Let’s be real.


Yah mang, U Chicago totes curbstomps Yale when it comes to biglaw placement.

Haven't you heard man? "Self-selection" is a myth perpetuated by the bitter losers who flunk out of OCI.

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Veyron
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby Veyron » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:28 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Veyron wrote:
2) Going to any school does not guarantee you Big Law. U of Chicago places the most people (percentage wise – I will come back to this) in NLJ 250 according to LST. Yet, over 40% there do not get Big Law. Further, I know countless people at way better schools than GW without Big Law. Not everyone can get Big Law. Did this student really think everyone should get Big Law and everyone he/she knows should get Big Law at a T20? Let’s be real.


Yah mang, U Chicago totes curbstomps Yale when it comes to biglaw placement.

Haven't you heard man? "Self-selection" is a myth perpetuated by the bitter losers who flunk out of OCI.


U just mad because you don't attend law school in Beautiful Hyde Park.
Last edited by Veyron on Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GeeDubTransfer
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby GeeDubTransfer » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:31 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Veyron wrote:
2) Going to any school does not guarantee you Big Law. U of Chicago places the most people (percentage wise – I will come back to this) in NLJ 250 according to LST. Yet, over 40% there do not get Big Law. Further, I know countless people at way better schools than GW without Big Law. Not everyone can get Big Law. Did this student really think everyone should get Big Law and everyone he/she knows should get Big Law at a T20? Let’s be real.


Yah mang, U Chicago totes curbstomps Yale when it comes to biglaw placement.

Haven't you heard man? "Self-selection" is a myth perpetuated by the bitter losers who flunk out of OCI.


Obviously Yale (and other schools) can get you opportunities other schools can't. And there are prestigious clerkships awaiting, and those people end up taking big law, academia, etc. So the NLJ placement percentages at graduation are kinda flawed. It is hard to address every point and possible situation. But I think my overall points are clear enough for this or any other thread on TLS.

HeavenWood
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:32 pm

GeeDubTransfer wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Veyron wrote:
2) Going to any school does not guarantee you Big Law. U of Chicago places the most people (percentage wise – I will come back to this) in NLJ 250 according to LST. Yet, over 40% there do not get Big Law. Further, I know countless people at way better schools than GW without Big Law. Not everyone can get Big Law. Did this student really think everyone should get Big Law and everyone he/she knows should get Big Law at a T20? Let’s be real.


Yah mang, U Chicago totes curbstomps Yale when it comes to biglaw placement.

Haven't you heard man? "Self-selection" is a myth perpetuated by the bitter losers who flunk out of OCI.


Obviously Yale (and other schools) can get you opportunities other schools can't. And there are prestigious clerkships awaiting, and those people end up taking big law, academia, etc. So the NLJ placement percentages at graduation are kinda flawed. It is hard to address every point and possible situation. But I think my overall points are clear enough for this or any other thread on TLS.

It's not that they're flawed, per se. You just have to make sure to account for self-selection into Article III Clerkships, prestigious PI, and academia.

GeeDubTransfer
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby GeeDubTransfer » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:37 pm

It's not that they're flawed, per se. You just have to make sure to account for self-selection into Article III Clerkships, prestigious PI, and academia.


Lol. True. You definitely know when you are around future lawyers. Have to nit pick every point. But you are correct.

HeavenWood
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:38 pm

GeeDubTransfer wrote:
It's not that they're flawed, per se. You just have to make sure to account for self-selection into Article III Clerkships, prestigious PI, and academia.


Lol. True. You definitely know when you are around future lawyers. Have to nit pick every point. But you are correct.

It's not nit-picking, it's vital placement information you have to take into account when choosing a law school.

GeeDubTransfer
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby GeeDubTransfer » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:39 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
GeeDubTransfer wrote:
It's not that they're flawed, per se. You just have to make sure to account for self-selection into Article III Clerkships, prestigious PI, and academia.


Lol. True. You definitely know when you are around future lawyers. Have to nit pick every point. But you are correct.

It's not nit-picking, it's vital placement information you have to take into account when choosing a law school.


My apologies. I agree with you.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby Big Shrimpin » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:53 am

Nice poast geedubtransfer, and 'grats on the jerb. Do we know each other???

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monkey85
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby monkey85 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:08 am

Big Shrimpin wrote:Nice poast geedubtransfer, and 'grats on the jerb. Do we know each other???


Word. Da man speak-a da truth.

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observationalist
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby observationalist » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:12 pm

run26.2 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
dood wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Your school places less than 25% into NLJ 250 firms, and you think 30% are making 160k? Come on dooder, be real here.


dunno, whatever law school transparency reports is prolly right. if its 25%, then its 25%.


His point is that a fair number of NLJ 250 firms don't pay 160.

And dood's point is that LST is not reporting on the % at NLJ 250s, but on the actual salaries. Of the reported salaries, over 38% are 160 or above. See --LinkRemoved--.

Of course, the salary data is not comprehensive, and with only 57% of the salaries reported, you could expect a significantly smaller percentage to be at 160. Btw - even if none of the reported salaries were at 160, you would still have about 22% of the class making 160, assuming LST's data is correct.



Just to clarify this, what the data on LST shows is that 38% of the Class of 2009 accepted offers that would have paid them 160K to start. Two major reasons why we know that placement is no longer that strong. First, the reporting rules for 2009 were relaxed to resolve problems caused by all the deferrals, meaning that schools were able to report graduates as making 160K even though they were deferred until the following year. Many 2009 grads never started those jobs, meaning the actual percentage for the Class of 2009 was likely lower than that. The NLJ250 numbers for 2009 support this (31.6% for Class of 2009, meaning that 6.4% of the class either lost their offers or worked at NLJ250 firms who did not respond to the NLJ's survey that year).

Second, 2009 was the best placement year on record for biglaw. Firms slashed hiring by as much as half for the Class of 2010 and even further for the Class of 2011. The NLJ250 placement for GW dropped from 31.6% to 24.8%. The Class of 2011 statistics, once they are available, will be lower than Class of 2010 unless GW somehow reacted differently than every other law school by proactively reducing the entering class size back in 2008 (when '11 grads were enrolling). Given that biglaw hiring is not looking like it will come back, a cautious applicant should further assume that GW grads for 2012 and following years will likewise see fewer than 25% in NLJ250 firms.

The one thing that is in GW's control to improve outcomes for its graduates is to reduce the incoming class sizes. For many large schools that is the best short-term fix they can offer to raise the value of their programs. That almost no schools have done this should raise some concern. The other option is to start reducing tuition significantly; not surprisingly this is also not something schools are likely to do without significant external pressure.

thesteelers
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby thesteelers » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:12 pm

Yeah, this thread shouldn't take a tone of, "Not T-14? You won't get anything but small law." I go to BC, which is ranked way below GW but seems to place much better in Biglaw. Our alumni network is loyal and influential, and the atmosphere at school is very supportive. When I came in here I thought I had to be top 5% or else I would be dead - now I realize that I could be top 15% and I'd still be okay as long as I don't piss off my mentors or snore during my interviews.

Sorry to the OP though, that's a rough situation and I hope you get out of it.
Edit: Okay, I posted this after reading only the first page, and then romo outed the OP as a douche, plus I see the discussion covered everything I said above...never mind.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby Jah'rakal » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 pm

there are no bad law schools really, even tier 4 and unaccredited law school students can have fulfilling experiences and a satisfactory job afterwards, it's all about your own perception

tennisking88
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby tennisking88 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:40 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:there are no bad law schools really, even tier 4 and unaccredited law school students can have fulfilling experiences and a satisfactory job afterwards, it's all about your own perception


lol

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law4vus
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby law4vus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:47 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:there are no bad law schools really


No.

Jah'rakal wrote:even tier 4 and unaccredited law school students can have fulfilling experiences


Uh, maybe?

Jah'rakal wrote:and a satisfactory job afterwards,


Usually not.

Jah'rakal wrote:it's all about your own perception


Actually, it's all about whether how many employers are willing to hire someone from Texas Southern or Cooley when there are hundreds of T14 grads a year needing jobs. The answer to that is not many.

Your schtick is old, dude. You troll the what are my chances forum and tell people it's a good idea to go to Whittier or NCCU when clearly, the evidence suggests otherwise. Just stop. Go to a shitty school at sticker if you want, but no one else should join you.

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Blindmelon
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:00 pm

thesteelers wrote:Yeah, this thread shouldn't take a tone of, "Not T-14? You won't get anything but small law." I go to BC, which is ranked way below GW but seems to place much better in Biglaw. Our alumni network is loyal and influential, and the atmosphere at school is very supportive. When I came in here I thought I had to be top 5% or else I would be dead - now I realize that I could be top 15% and I'd still be okay as long as I don't piss off my mentors or snore during my interviews.

Sorry to the OP though, that's a rough situation and I hope you get out of it.
Edit: Okay, I posted this after reading only the first page, and then romo outed the OP as a douche, plus I see the discussion covered everything I said above...never mind.


Well, there is not a single reason why GW should be ranked above BC - US News rankings are pretty irrelevant and BC's placement power is right below the ucla/tx/vand range.... so if BC ends up placing better than GW overall, it will not be surprising in the least.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby Jah'rakal » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:01 pm

Your schtick is old, dude. You troll the what are my chances forum and tell people it's a good idea to go to Whittier or NCCU when clearly, the evidence suggests otherwise. Just stop. Go to a shitty school at sticker if you want, but no one else should join you.


hey brah i am just trying to be objective here, the diss on some of the schools r so unjustified, specially a school as prestigious as GW

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romothesavior
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby romothesavior » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:05 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:
Your schtick is old, dude. You troll the what are my chances forum and tell people it's a good idea to go to Whittier or NCCU when clearly, the evidence suggests otherwise. Just stop. Go to a shitty school at sticker if you want, but no one else should join you.


hey brah i am just trying to be objective here, the diss on some of the schools r so unjustified, specially a school as prestigious as GW

Yeah your opinion is real objective man. Nothing wrong with a TTTT school like TJLS graduating the majority of their students into a job with 6 figure debt and no job. Its all about perspective, amirite?

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law4vus
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby law4vus » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:06 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:
Your schtick is old, dude. You troll the what are my chances forum and tell people it's a good idea to go to Whittier or NCCU when clearly, the evidence suggests otherwise. Just stop. Go to a shitty school at sticker if you want, but no one else should join you.


hey brah i am just trying to be objective here, the diss on some of the schools r so unjustified, specially a school as prestigious as GW


I GO to GW and I think it's not that great of a school and I regret going here. I think the OP was a little extreme, but the sentiment is correct that the school isn't nearly as good as its ranking.

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rayiner
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby rayiner » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:07 pm

Re: federal government jobs: they don't hire anyone full time. I know lots of people who want government (here at NU). They got 2L internships, but no full time offers. I'd say it's easier to get V25 than federal government work ITE.

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rayiner
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby rayiner » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:21 pm

thesteelers wrote:Yeah, this thread shouldn't take a tone of, "Not T-14? You won't get anything but small law." I go to BC, which is ranked way below GW but seems to place much better in Biglaw. Our alumni network is loyal and influential, and the atmosphere at school is very supportive. When I came in here I thought I had to be top 5% or else I would be dead - now I realize that I could be top 15% and I'd still be okay as long as I don't piss off my mentors or snore during my interviews.

Sorry to the OP though, that's a rough situation and I hope you get out of it.
Edit: Okay, I posted this after reading only the first page, and then romo outed the OP as a douche, plus I see the discussion covered everything I said above...never mind.


I think this thread definitely should take the tone of making people aware of the odds at T20s. Top 15% is a really good GPA. All the people I know in that range are either very good test takers naturally or put in insane hours. I'd assume the same is true at BC. If 15% is the right figure, then that's pretty stiff competition.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:52 pm

rayiner wrote:
thesteelers wrote:Yeah, this thread shouldn't take a tone of, "Not T-14? You won't get anything but small law." I go to BC, which is ranked way below GW but seems to place much better in Biglaw. Our alumni network is loyal and influential, and the atmosphere at school is very supportive. When I came in here I thought I had to be top 5% or else I would be dead - now I realize that I could be top 15% and I'd still be okay as long as I don't piss off my mentors or snore during my interviews.

Sorry to the OP though, that's a rough situation and I hope you get out of it.
Edit: Okay, I posted this after reading only the first page, and then romo outed the OP as a douche, plus I see the discussion covered everything I said above...never mind.


I think this thread definitely should take the tone of making people aware of the odds at T20s. Top 15% is a really good GPA. All the people I know in that range are either very good test takers naturally or put in insane hours. I'd assume the same is true at BC. If 15% is the right figure, then that's pretty stiff competition.

Anecdotal, but I don't think 15% is necessary at BC, and by a decent margin. One thing BC (and BU) have going for them is solid access to two markets, NYC and Boston; If you're willing to work in either, things open up a bit. I don't know how GW does in NYC, but with DC being so difficult these days, I hope GW students get a good chance to OCI with New York firms.

The point remains, of course, schools in this range will leave you wth a better shot of not getting biglaw than of getting biglaw. Those who are biglaw or bust (either by preference or by debt load) shouldn't go. Even if it's, say, a 30%* chance instead of 15% to get something market paying, there's a 70% chance of NOT getting it. And that's damn high.

*Number made up (almost entirely) at random.

jjlee
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby jjlee » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:30 am

law4vus wrote:
Jah'rakal wrote:
Your schtick is old, dude. You troll the what are my chances forum and tell people it's a good idea to go to Whittier or NCCU when clearly, the evidence suggests otherwise. Just stop. Go to a shitty school at sticker if you want, but no one else should join you.


hey brah i am just trying to be objective here, the diss on some of the schools r so unjustified, specially a school as prestigious as GW


I GO to GW and I think it's not that great of a school and I regret going here. I think the OP was a little extreme, but the sentiment is correct that the school isn't nearly as good as its ranking.


Though you haven't been to American do you get the feeling GW may not be much better than American? If you could do the process all over what would you do differently?

I'm seriously considering GW and so this means alot to hear from a current student!

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thexfactor
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby thexfactor » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:28 am

so i think the advice 0Ls can get out of this thread is... go to BU or BC instead of GW, they have almost 2x placement for nlj250 firms.

I really regret not going to bu or bc......

MrAnon
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby MrAnon » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:35 am

thexfactor wrote:so i think the advice 0Ls can get out of this thread is... go to BU or BC instead of GW, they have almost 2x placement for nlj250 firms.

I really regret not going to bu or bc......


This isn't accurate. This is just Boston trolling or BU/BC trolling. The job situation up there is similar to DCs...bad. Boston is a very popular town for grads to flock to, there are plenty of law schools in the area, and BU and BC are like having two GWs in the same town. Don't have buyers remorse because you chose one T25 over another T25. Have it because you didn't work harder in undergrad.

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Blindmelon
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Re: From a current GW student- do not go to this school.

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:41 am

MrAnon wrote:
thexfactor wrote:so i think the advice 0Ls can get out of this thread is... go to BU or BC instead of GW, they have almost 2x placement for nlj250 firms.

I really regret not going to bu or bc......


This isn't accurate. This is just Boston trolling or BU/BC trolling. The job situation up there is similar to DCs...bad. Boston is a very popular town for grads to flock to, there are plenty of law schools in the area, and BU and BC are like having two GWs in the same town. Don't have buyers remorse because you chose one T25 over another T25. Have it because you didn't work harder in undergrad.


This is asinine. Look at the summer classes of DC firms - Gtwon, T14s, random assortment of top of the class at other regional schools across the country. Look at Boston firm summer classes - half BC/BU almost everywhere. The Boston schools have a much stronger hold on the local firms than GW does in DC.




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