tarp wrote:... I'm not a 23 year old unmarried childless dude who can kiss the asses of partners and work 70 hours a week.
Dude, you assume too much.
tarp wrote:... I'm not a 23 year old unmarried childless dude who can kiss the asses of partners and work 70 hours a week.
beach_terror wrote:HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:Let me guess, x is from Lower Merion and feels he needs to look down on any town nearby that isn't filled with snooty pretentious fucks.
I'm actually from Lower Merion, so watch it with your blanket stereotypes.
LM kids are normal from what I've encountered. Grounded in reality a bit more than other main liners. GA kids and Haverford kids are the ones that give the ML a bad rep.
Honeysuckle wrote:1L here attending a T30 who grew up in the Philly area and hopes to work there. If I'm interested in applying to federal district/3rd circuit CoA judges in Philly, can I safely send out my resumes & cover letters over winter break, or should I be on the ball on December 1? How about for non-profits/legal aid offices? Also, considering how insular the market is, will they look suspiciously on the fact that I chose to attend school outside of Philly, or will my ties suffice?
r6_philly wrote:beach_terror wrote:HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:Let me guess, x is from Lower Merion and feels he needs to look down on any town nearby that isn't filled with snooty pretentious fucks.
I'm actually from Lower Merion, so watch it with your blanket stereotypes.
LM kids are normal from what I've encountered. Grounded in reality a bit more than other main liners. GA kids and Haverford kids are the ones that give the ML a bad rep.
As I mentioned I would do. I went to THE Haverford School. Yet I don't hate on Havertown or working class Delco.
tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.
HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.
What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).
HeavenWood wrote:beach_terror wrote:HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:Let me guess, x is from Lower Merion and feels he needs to look down on any town nearby that isn't filled with snooty pretentious fucks.
I'm actually from Lower Merion, so watch it with your blanket stereotypes.
LM kids are normal from what I've encountered. Grounded in reality a bit more than other main liners. GA kids and Haverford kids are the ones that give the ML a bad rep.
It's all relative. There are "haves" and "have-nots" most places you go. It all depends on where you fall on the local socioeconomic totem pole (eg, many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill), and if you're at least a halfway decent parent, you make sure your children don't characterize themselves based on Mommy and Daddy's marginal tax bracket.
keg411 wrote:WTF? People in Cherry Hill have plenty of $$$. I went to undergrad with people from there and they were all very upper-middle class. Maybe it has some 'eh' parts that I don't know about, but that's because it's REALLY big for a suburb. I wouldn't characterize anything about Cherry Hill as a "have nots" town, so I think you know less about South Jersey then you think you do.
InGoodFaith wrote:Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...
Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.
HeavenWood wrote:InGoodFaith wrote:Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...
Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.
It certainly has that reputation, which is fueled by quite a few people who insist on living beyond their means. It may shock you to know that Havertown and Cherry Hill are about on par with regard to median house hold income/home values.
keg411 wrote:HeavenWood wrote:InGoodFaith wrote:Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...
Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.
It certainly has that reputation, which is fueled by quite a few people who insist on living beyond their means. It may shock you to know that Havertown and Cherry Hill are about on par with regard to median house hold income/home values.
You didn't dispute me on Westmont, though....
(I know nothing about Havertown, which is why I didn't participate in the other part of the conversation... I also had a caveat saying that Cherry Hill is huge for a "suburb").
tarp wrote:HeavenWood, I grew up in an affluent D.C. suburb and I much prefer a place where different socioeconomic and ethnic groups are better represented. The main line is overwhelmingly white and upper-middle class. The place where I grew up at least had ethnic diversity (large populations of Korean, Vietnamese, Indian/Pakistani, Persian, Hispanic and Thai people) making up over 40% of the population. The main line has very little ethnic diversity. If I had to choose a Philadelphia suburb to settle long-term, I think my first choice would be Cherry Hill - both for the great high schools, the ease of access to Center City, and at least a little bit of diversity. I don't like Haddonfield or Moorestown for the same reasons I dislike the Main Line (although I like Haddonfield a lot more because of its convenient access to Center City and the shopping in Cherry Hill). My ideal suburb, however, cannot be found in the Philadelphia region. It just isn't a magnet for immigrants, or industry for that matter. I am moving out of Philadelphia after I graduate because I can live in a much nicer area with lower property taxes elsewhere.
HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.
What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).
Aristone wrote:HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.
What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).
You're close...I'd say the big three are Moorestown, Haddonfield and Medford. Surprisingly, after doing a little research, it seems as though Medford Township has (or had) a higher household income than Haddonfield and Moorestown by a not-so-insubstantial margin. Plus, Medford Lakes, Shamong, Cherry Hill, Tabernacle and Voorhees all have household incomes above $75k or so. I wouldn't shoot most of those places down.
Medford for one is as close as some main line commutes, has a kind of rustic lake community field, decent public schools and without the insane pretentiousness of the Main Line. And trust, this is from someone who didn't grow up in Medford nor went to the public schools in that area. I guess once you hit Shamong and Tabernacle...it's definitely more rural, but you get way more land than in most places. I'm in the market for a lakefront house in Medford and have examined a few places west of the city...I don't find much comparison (though it seems like apples to oranges, I suppose).
It's really a matter of taste, I'd imagine. I cannot imagine ever living on the Main Line. As I'm sure some could never imagine living in South Jersey.
Wow I have now helped further this thread's off-topic vibe. Whoops.
HeavenWood wrote:Aristone wrote:HeavenWood wrote:tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.
What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).
You're close...I'd say the big three are Moorestown, Haddonfield and Medford. Surprisingly, after doing a little research, it seems as though Medford Township has (or had) a higher household income than Haddonfield and Moorestown by a not-so-insubstantial margin. Plus, Medford Lakes, Shamong, Cherry Hill, Tabernacle and Voorhees all have household incomes above $75k or so. I wouldn't shoot most of those places down.
Medford for one is as close as some main line commutes, has a kind of rustic lake community field, decent public schools and without the insane pretentiousness of the Main Line. And trust, this is from someone who didn't grow up in Medford nor went to the public schools in that area. I guess once you hit Shamong and Tabernacle...it's definitely more rural, but you get way more land than in most places. I'm in the market for a lakefront house in Medford and have examined a few places west of the city...I don't find much comparison (though it seems like apples to oranges, I suppose).
It's really a matter of taste, I'd imagine. I cannot imagine ever living on the Main Line. As I'm sure some could never imagine living in South Jersey.
Wow I have now helped further this thread's off-topic vibe. Whoops.
I don't like Cherry Hill and Voorhees because I don't like relentless suburban sprawl. Tract housing, strip malls, and big box stores as far as the eye can see do not a community make. I don't care how wealthy some of the developments are. Giant houses on tiny lots are a veritable eyesore in my humble opinion. I'd rather live in Collingswood. At least it has some personality.
And LOL at the Main Line being "insanely pretentious." If you want to fling around tired stereotypes, Cherry Hill/Voorhees nouveau riche are leaps and bounds more insufferable. At least Main Liners have some class.
Other than playing a round of golf at Medford Lakes Country Club, I haven't spent much time in the township. It's definitely more charming than Cherry Hill (not that that takes a whole lot), but I'd say the woods/lakes combination is pleasing to the eye (even if none of the lakes are actually natural). There seems to be a fair amount of custom construction too, which is good.
Also, I looked up the numbers. According to the 2009 American Community Survey Estimates, Medford is the least wealthy of the three municipalities, although other than lagging a bit in per capita income (which indicates there are fewer highly affluent resident earners above the median income) there isn't much of a difference.
Haddonfield
Median Household Income: $109,259
Median Family Income: $129,750
Per Capita Income: $56,567
Median Owner-Occupied Home Value: $457,300
Moorestown
Median Household Income: $108,995
Median Family Income: $128,811
Per Capita Income: Income: $58,030
Median Owner-Occupied Home Value: $500,900
Medford
Median Household Income: $104,338
Median Family Imcome: $117,882
Per Capita Income: $43,997
Median owner-Occupied Home Value: $400,800
Aristone wrote:Ha...sorry I went to a private high school with some main liners, a college and law school with them as well...and perhaps those individuals came across as insanely pretentious...my bad on the blanket statement. Though, once again...I guess we should both avoid blanket statements...a few of my friends are from Voorhees and Cherry Hill...a vast majority of them have both class and tact as well as wealthy families. It's all a matter of attitude not location. I also realized that the numbers I checked were 2000 after the post (thanks random googling and Monday night tiredness)...at least glad to see that the median home price is lower in the area I'm looking....Haddonfield was killing my budget.
Last, I think a devent amount of lakes in Medford are natural. It began as a resort town for wealthy Philadelphians in the 1920s who didn't want to travel to the shores. Hence why the YMCA has one of their only camps in the nation there as well as why older log homes were built right on top of the lakes (sadly, you cannot get flood insurance)....I'd like to think some community planning could have corrected that, but alas. Check it out...the only man-made lakes I know of in town are Stockwell, a dammed portion of Mimosa and Taunton...at least that's what I have been told from realtors. Most have been dammed...thus rearranging them, but I'm pretty sure some are natural cedar lakes...who knows. They could know nothing, I suppose....I'm only learning most of this through the realty process.
And oddly the numbers I found for 2011 are:
Moorestown Household Income $103,586
Medford Household Income $105,629
Haddonfield Household Income $114,451
Semantics at this point...I guess my point was that there are other towns besides just Haddonfield and Moorestown. Mullica Hill? Lumberton? Off the map places can be decent...I'd just hate to shut down all other towns for those two. Btw, TOTALLY agree on Collingswood (even beyond the failed Lumber Yard Project) as well as Merchantville. I a little too close to Philly and sprawl for me, but I get it. Not everyone wants acres of land...but, hey, I have a large dog.
In the end, DON'T LIVE IN SOUTH JERZ for Penn.
HeavenWood wrote:Aristone wrote:Ha...sorry I went to a private high school with some main liners, a college and law school with them as well...and perhaps those individuals came across as insanely pretentious...my bad on the blanket statement. Though, once again...I guess we should both avoid blanket statements...a few of my friends are from Voorhees and Cherry Hill...a vast majority of them have both class and tact as well as wealthy families. It's all a matter of attitude not location. I also realized that the numbers I checked were 2000 after the post (thanks random googling and Monday night tiredness)...at least glad to see that the median home price is lower in the area I'm looking....Haddonfield was killing my budget.
Last, I think a devent amount of lakes in Medford are natural. It began as a resort town for wealthy Philadelphians in the 1920s who didn't want to travel to the shores. Hence why the YMCA has one of their only camps in the nation there as well as why older log homes were built right on top of the lakes (sadly, you cannot get flood insurance)....I'd like to think some community planning could have corrected that, but alas. Check it out...the only lakes I know of in town are Stockwell, a dammed portion of Mimosa and Taunton...at least that's what I have been told from realtors. Most have been dammed...thus rearranging them, but I'm pretty sure some are natural cedar lakes...who knows. They could know nothing, I suppose....I'm only learning most of this through the realty process.
And oddly the numbers I found for 2011 are:
Moorestown Household Income $103,586
Medford Household Income $105,629
Haddonfield Household Income $114,451
Semantics at this point...I guess my point was that there are other towns besides just Haddonfield and Moorestown. Mullica Hill? Lumberton? Off the map places can be decent...I'd just hate to shut down all other towns for those two. Btw, TOTALLY agree on Collingswood (even beyond the failed Lumber Yard Project) as well as Merchantville. I a little too close to Philly and sprawl for me, but I get it. Not everyone wants acres of land...but, hey, I have a large dog.
In the end, DON'T LIVE IN SOUTH JERZ for Penn.
The income #s I got were from the U.S. Census website (where did you find yours):
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/ ... l?_lang=en
And hey, the Main Line definitely has more than its fair share of snobbery, I just hate blanket stereotypes (I don't seriously think the wealthy parts of Cherry/Hill Voorhees are universally nouveau riche, I just wanted to throw the generalizations back in your face). I would say that Main Line snobbery is a bit different than Cherry Hill/Voorhees snobbery though (stiff and crusty v. flashy and tacky), and I'm not really a fan of either. I also didn't quite mean to imply that nowhere else besides Haddonfield or Moorestown was liveable in South Jersey. I just always saw those places as the creme de la creme.
Interesting that some of those lakes in Medford are natural. The member I played with at Medford Village (I actually played there, not Medford Lakes) said all the lakes in the area were man-made, but I guess he was wrong.
Aristone wrote:You said "I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning)." That doesn't imply anything...that seems like a bit of a fact as well as diss on some of the finer areas of Southern New Jersey.
Aristone wrote:Further, "stiff and crusty v/ flashy and tacky" is, again, a blanket statement to which you maintain you're against...fail.
Aristone wrote:Last, you stated that "many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill"...I'd be pleasantly surprised if those kids could afford a private school like St. Joe's Prep or Bishop Eustace to which most of these poor Cherry Hill people send their kids to. Roughly 5% of Ardmore is below the poverty line (clearly less than Cherry Hill...but considered as "poor")...I'm not sure they'd be consider rich anywhere but Camden or North Philly. I hope they are not the ones who would be "rich" in Cherry Hill...or they need to reevaluate putting a Nordstroms in the area. Are you sure you know the area?
Aristone wrote:We'll agree to disagree...but you do seem slightly combative.
Aristone wrote:I thought we generally agreed in the end....but you're bringing up semantics. Is everything ok? Do you resent your town or something? It's just slightly disconcerting to see someone so combative against someone else who relatively agrees with them via an anonymous site. It's PA v NJ...we're not California or anything. Geezu. Regardless, I'll be happy to live here and commute to Philly...love the area. And I'm happy you love your area.
Clearly this thread got off track, my apologies.
HeavenWood wrote:Aristone wrote:You said "I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning)." That doesn't imply anything...that seems like a bit of a fact as well as diss on some of the finer areas of Southern New Jersey.
The Main Line is a pretty special place. There are plenty of nice places that are not the Main Line, but I, along with many other people, consider it the pinnacle of the Philadelphia suburbs. I don't think anywhere else in the Philly MSA quite compares (and note that I intended there to be more than a hint of sarcasm in the tone of my statement, although this is the internet, so it isn't always easy to pick up).Aristone wrote:Further, "stiff and crusty v/ flashy and tacky" is, again, a blanket statement to which you maintain you're against...fail.
I was referring to the snob subset, not the wealthy as a whole, so not a fail at all. There's definitely a difference in culture among the "ill-behaved" of our respective rich.
Aristone wrote:Last, you stated that "many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill"...I'd be pleasantly surprised if those kids could afford a private school like St. Joe's Prep or Bishop Eustace to which most of these poor Cherry Hill people send their kids to. Roughly 5% of Ardmore is below the poverty line (clearly less than Cherry Hill...but considered as "poor")...I'm not sure they'd be consider rich anywhere but Camden or North Philly. I hope they are not the ones who would be "rich" in Cherry Hill...or they need to reevaluate putting a Nordstroms in the area. Are you sure you know the area?
Yeah brah, I'm sure I know the area. Did you notice I put "poor" in quotation marks? Some of the Main Liners with less perspective would consider a family of four in Ardmore and Narberth making 125k a year to be "poor." Of course, that isn't actually poor but upper-middle class, IE, those folks would be among the "rich" of Greentree and Springdale. Subtext, man. Subtext. Hardly anyone in Ardmore or Narberth is actually poor (are you sure you know MY area?). I mean Jesus Christ, man, the median family incomes (2009 numbers) there are respectively 106k and 126k. This goes back to what I said before about the "haves" v. "have-nots" dichotomy being a relative (as opposed to an absolute) distinction in most places.Aristone wrote:We'll agree to disagree...but you do seem slightly combative.
As do you.Aristone wrote:I thought we generally agreed in the end....but you're bringing up semantics. Is everything ok? Do you resent your town or something? It's just slightly disconcerting to see someone so combative against someone else who relatively agrees with them via an anonymous site. It's PA v NJ...we're not California or anything. Geezu. Regardless, I'll be happy to live here and commute to Philly...love the area. And I'm happy you love your area.
Clearly this thread got off track, my apologies.
I don't resent my town at all. I have had problems with people making nasty assumptions about me solely based off where I grew up, which you seemed all too happy to do.
Are we finished here?
Aristone wrote:Also, others...dont be discouraged by the terribleness of Heavenwood...Philly people are usually nice, normal, non-combative and easygoing. Plus they can usually frame their arguments marginally better. I hope this thread gave you some info in the first few pages. Please disregard my and his banter. Go to bed, Heaven...you're making an embarrassment of yourself.
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