Philadelphia

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r6_philly
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby r6_philly » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:04 pm

tarp wrote:... I'm not a 23 year old unmarried childless dude who can kiss the asses of partners and work 70 hours a week.


Dude, you assume too much.

r6_philly
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby r6_philly » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:06 pm

beach_terror wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:Let me guess, x is from Lower Merion and feels he needs to look down on any town nearby that isn't filled with snooty pretentious fucks.

I'm actually from Lower Merion, so watch it with your blanket stereotypes.

LM kids are normal from what I've encountered. Grounded in reality a bit more than other main liners. GA kids and Haverford kids are the ones that give the ML a bad rep.


As I mentioned I would do. I went to THE Haverford School. Yet I don't hate on Havertown or working class Delco.

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Honeysuckle
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby Honeysuckle » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:12 pm

1L here attending a T30 who grew up in the Philly area and hopes to work there. If I'm interested in applying to federal district/3rd circuit CoA judges in Philly, can I safely send out my resumes & cover letters over winter break, or should I be on the ball on December 1? How about for non-profits/legal aid offices? Also, considering how insular the market is, will they look suspiciously on the fact that I chose to attend school outside of Philly, or will my ties suffice?

r6_philly
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby r6_philly » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:21 pm

Honeysuckle wrote:1L here attending a T30 who grew up in the Philly area and hopes to work there. If I'm interested in applying to federal district/3rd circuit CoA judges in Philly, can I safely send out my resumes & cover letters over winter break, or should I be on the ball on December 1? How about for non-profits/legal aid offices? Also, considering how insular the market is, will they look suspiciously on the fact that I chose to attend school outside of Philly, or will my ties suffice?


I'll pm you.

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beach_terror
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby beach_terror » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:55 pm

r6_philly wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:Let me guess, x is from Lower Merion and feels he needs to look down on any town nearby that isn't filled with snooty pretentious fucks.

I'm actually from Lower Merion, so watch it with your blanket stereotypes.

LM kids are normal from what I've encountered. Grounded in reality a bit more than other main liners. GA kids and Haverford kids are the ones that give the ML a bad rep.


As I mentioned I would do. I went to THE Haverford School. Yet I don't hate on Havertown or working class Delco.

Simply stating the consensus man. I went to THE Shipley School. I know the rep my high school has.

tarp
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby tarp » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:38 am

The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:16 pm

tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.

What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).

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beach_terror
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby beach_terror » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:18 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.

What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).

The Main Line is objectively one of the best areas to raise a family in the Philadelphia area.

keg411
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby keg411 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:24 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:Let me guess, x is from Lower Merion and feels he needs to look down on any town nearby that isn't filled with snooty pretentious fucks.

I'm actually from Lower Merion, so watch it with your blanket stereotypes.

LM kids are normal from what I've encountered. Grounded in reality a bit more than other main liners. GA kids and Haverford kids are the ones that give the ML a bad rep.

It's all relative. There are "haves" and "have-nots" most places you go. It all depends on where you fall on the local socioeconomic totem pole (eg, many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill), and if you're at least a halfway decent parent, you make sure your children don't characterize themselves based on Mommy and Daddy's marginal tax bracket.


WTF? People in Cherry Hill have plenty of $$$. I went to undergrad with people from there and they were all very upper-middle class. Maybe it has some 'eh' parts that I don't know about, but that's because it's REALLY big for a suburb. I wouldn't characterize anything about Cherry Hill as a "have nots" town, so I think you know less about South Jersey then you think you do.

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:34 pm

keg411 wrote:WTF? People in Cherry Hill have plenty of $$$. I went to undergrad with people from there and they were all very upper-middle class. Maybe it has some 'eh' parts that I don't know about, but that's because it's REALLY big for a suburb. I wouldn't characterize anything about Cherry Hill as a "have nots" town, so I think you know less about South Jersey then you think you do.

lol no

Cherry Hill is not uniformly rich... at all...

Cherry Hill has a very affluent reputation (and affluent people certainly live there), but it has comparatively low property values, making it quite accessible for lower-middle-class folk on up. Cherry Hill has some ritzy developments, but it also has a trailer park or two. Gasp! How limited our perceptions of places can be!

Median Household Incomes of Cherry Hill Enclaves [2000 #s]:
Ashland: $68,063 (8,375)
Barclay-Kingston: $68,561 (10,728)
Cherry Hill Mall: $61,620 (13,238)
Erlton-Ellisburg: $47,953 (8,168)
Golden Triangle: $46,266 (3,511)
Greentree: $85,816 (11,536)
Springdale: $96,412 (14,409)

Really, only Greentree and Springdale (where most of your CH friends were from, I'm sure) are the wealthy parts, while Erlton-Ellisburg and Golden Triangle are on the lower end of middle class. Next time you're in the area, take a drive around Cherry Hill West. You'll see what I'm talking about.

tl;dr Cherry Hill has its own set of haves and have-nots.

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20130312
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby 20130312 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:37 pm

Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...

Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:41 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...

Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.

It certainly has that reputation, which is fueled by quite a few people who insist on living beyond their means. It may shock you to know that Havertown and Cherry Hill are about on par with regard to median house hold income/home values.

keg411
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby keg411 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:10 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...

Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.

It certainly has that reputation, which is fueled by quite a few people who insist on living beyond their means. It may shock you to know that Havertown and Cherry Hill are about on par with regard to median house hold income/home values.


You didn't dispute me on Westmont, though....
(I know nothing about Havertown, which is why I didn't participate in the other part of the conversation... I also had a caveat saying that Cherry Hill is huge for a "suburb").

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:52 pm

keg411 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Cherry Hill has a reputation in south Jersey for being an upper crust area...

Median household income might not support it, but perception is half the battle.

It certainly has that reputation, which is fueled by quite a few people who insist on living beyond their means. It may shock you to know that Havertown and Cherry Hill are about on par with regard to median house hold income/home values.


You didn't dispute me on Westmont, though....
(I know nothing about Havertown, which is why I didn't participate in the other part of the conversation... I also had a caveat saying that Cherry Hill is huge for a "suburb").

Where did you mention Westmont/what about Westmont? (EDIT: I didn't dispute you on Westmont because you mentioned it in a way that would imply it's a student-friendly affordable area. Haddon Township is pretty middle class).

As to the bolded, that's precisely why there's a relative class divide. We're not talking filthy rich versus dirt poor here, more lower-middle class versus mildly affluent. But even most smaller suburbs are not socioeconomically homogeneous. Neighborhing Voorhees is less than half as large, but offers a similar demographic range.

We're definitely taking this thread off-track, but if you want to know more, feel free to PM me. Looking at a place on paper doesn't tell the whole story, but it can often correct for perceptional fallacies that we inevitably create.

tarp
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby tarp » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:44 pm

HeavenWood, I grew up in an affluent D.C. suburb and I much prefer a place where different socioeconomic and ethnic groups are better represented. The main line is overwhelmingly white and upper-middle class. The place where I grew up at least had ethnic diversity (large populations of Korean, Vietnamese, Indian/Pakistani, Persian, Hispanic and Thai people) making up over 40% of the population. The main line has very little ethnic diversity. If I had to choose a Philadelphia suburb to settle long-term, I think my first choice would be Cherry Hill - both for the great high schools, the ease of access to Center City, and at least a little bit of diversity. I don't like Haddonfield or Moorestown for the same reasons I dislike the Main Line (although I like Haddonfield a lot more because of its convenient access to Center City and the shopping in Cherry Hill). My ideal suburb, however, cannot be found in the Philadelphia region. It just isn't a magnet for immigrants, or industry for that matter. I am moving out of Philadelphia after I graduate because I can live in a much nicer area with lower property taxes elsewhere.

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:18 pm

tarp wrote:HeavenWood, I grew up in an affluent D.C. suburb and I much prefer a place where different socioeconomic and ethnic groups are better represented. The main line is overwhelmingly white and upper-middle class. The place where I grew up at least had ethnic diversity (large populations of Korean, Vietnamese, Indian/Pakistani, Persian, Hispanic and Thai people) making up over 40% of the population. The main line has very little ethnic diversity. If I had to choose a Philadelphia suburb to settle long-term, I think my first choice would be Cherry Hill - both for the great high schools, the ease of access to Center City, and at least a little bit of diversity. I don't like Haddonfield or Moorestown for the same reasons I dislike the Main Line (although I like Haddonfield a lot more because of its convenient access to Center City and the shopping in Cherry Hill). My ideal suburb, however, cannot be found in the Philadelphia region. It just isn't a magnet for immigrants, or industry for that matter. I am moving out of Philadelphia after I graduate because I can live in a much nicer area with lower property taxes elsewhere.

The Main Line as a whole is very non-diverse, but Lower Merion actually has a bit of diversity, if only because it's large enough to have some middle-class enclaves, and it's just as, if not even more convenient to Center City. It also isn't filled to the brim with tract housing, strip malls, and big box stores... there's something to be said for living somewhere with community feel and personality. Lower Merion isn't that much less diverse than Cherry Hill, as a matter of fact:

Lower Merion: 85.7% White, 5.6% Black or African American, 0.1% Native American, 6.0% Asian, and 1.9% were two or more races. 3.0% of the population were of Hispanic or Latino ancestry

Cherry Hill: 78.1% White, 6.1% Black or African American, 0.1% Native American, 11.7% Asian, and 2.2% were two or more races. 5.6% of the population were of Hispanic or Latino ancestry.

The one thing I will say for Cherry Hill is that you get a much better bang for your buck, even factoring in New Jersey's higher local and state taxes. Then again, I'd much rather pay 500k to live in cozy Cynwyd split than an ugly Springdale McMansion, but a lot of people prefer outright sprawl. If you're one of those people, I can understand why Philadelphia may not be for you.

Aristone
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby Aristone » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:32 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.

What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).


You're close...I'd say the big three are Moorestown, Haddonfield and Medford. Surprisingly, after doing a little research, it seems as though Medford Township has (or had) a higher household income than Haddonfield and Moorestown by a not-so-insubstantial margin. Plus, Medford Lakes, Shamong, Cherry Hill, Tabernacle and Voorhees all have household incomes above $75k or so. I wouldn't shoot most of those places down.

Medford for one is as close as some main line commutes, has a kind of rustic lake community field, decent public schools and without the insane pretentiousness of the Main Line. And trust, this is from someone who didn't grow up in Medford nor went to the public schools in that area. I guess once you hit Shamong and Tabernacle...it's definitely more rural, but you get way more land than in most places. I'm in the market for a lakefront house in Medford and have examined a few places west of the city...I don't find much comparison (though it seems like apples to oranges, I suppose).

It's really a matter of taste, I'd imagine. I cannot imagine ever living on the Main Line. As I'm sure some could never imagine living in South Jersey.

Wow I have now helped further this thread's off-topic vibe. Whoops.

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:00 am

Aristone wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.

What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).


You're close...I'd say the big three are Moorestown, Haddonfield and Medford. Surprisingly, after doing a little research, it seems as though Medford Township has (or had) a higher household income than Haddonfield and Moorestown by a not-so-insubstantial margin. Plus, Medford Lakes, Shamong, Cherry Hill, Tabernacle and Voorhees all have household incomes above $75k or so. I wouldn't shoot most of those places down.

Medford for one is as close as some main line commutes, has a kind of rustic lake community field, decent public schools and without the insane pretentiousness of the Main Line. And trust, this is from someone who didn't grow up in Medford nor went to the public schools in that area. I guess once you hit Shamong and Tabernacle...it's definitely more rural, but you get way more land than in most places. I'm in the market for a lakefront house in Medford and have examined a few places west of the city...I don't find much comparison (though it seems like apples to oranges, I suppose).

It's really a matter of taste, I'd imagine. I cannot imagine ever living on the Main Line. As I'm sure some could never imagine living in South Jersey.

Wow I have now helped further this thread's off-topic vibe. Whoops.

I don't like Cherry Hill and Voorhees because I don't like relentless suburban sprawl. Tract housing, strip malls, and big box stores as far as the eye can see do not a community make. I don't care how wealthy some of the developments are. Giant houses on tiny lots are a veritable eyesore in my humble opinion. I'd rather live in Collingswood. At least it has some personality.

And LOL at the Main Line being "insanely pretentious." If you want to fling around tired stereotypes, Cherry Hill/Voorhees nouveau riche are leaps and bounds more insufferable. At least Main Liners have some class.

Other than playing a round of golf at Medford Lakes Country Club, I haven't spent much time in the township. It's definitely more charming than Cherry Hill (not that that takes a whole lot), but I'd say the woods/lakes combination is pleasing to the eye (even if none of the lakes are actually natural). There seems to be a fair amount of custom construction too, which is good.

Also, I looked up the numbers. According to the 2009 American Community Survey Estimates, Medford is the least wealthy of the three municipalities, although other than lagging a bit in per capita income (which indicates there are fewer highly affluent resident earners above the median income) there isn't much of a difference.

Haddonfield
Median Household Income: $109,259
Median Family Income: $129,750
Per Capita Income: $56,567
Median Owner-Occupied Home Value: $457,300

Moorestown
Median Household Income: $108,995
Median Family Income: $128,811
Per Capita Income: Income: $58,030
Median Owner-Occupied Home Value: $500,900

Medford
Median Household Income: $104,338
Median Family Imcome: $117,882
Per Capita Income: $43,997
Median owner-Occupied Home Value: $400,800

Aristone
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby Aristone » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:34 am

HeavenWood wrote:
Aristone wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
tarp wrote:The main line sucks. I can think of a dozen Philly suburbs I'd rather live in than the main line areas.

What sucks about the Main Line? It's quite expensive, but that's the price you pay for living in a desirable, historic inner-ring suburb with great schools, housing stock, and community feel. I can understand if you think the area is overpriced, or if you're looking for somewhere with a more rural, exurban feel, but what's "better" (or at least comparable)? I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning).


You're close...I'd say the big three are Moorestown, Haddonfield and Medford. Surprisingly, after doing a little research, it seems as though Medford Township has (or had) a higher household income than Haddonfield and Moorestown by a not-so-insubstantial margin. Plus, Medford Lakes, Shamong, Cherry Hill, Tabernacle and Voorhees all have household incomes above $75k or so. I wouldn't shoot most of those places down.

Medford for one is as close as some main line commutes, has a kind of rustic lake community field, decent public schools and without the insane pretentiousness of the Main Line. And trust, this is from someone who didn't grow up in Medford nor went to the public schools in that area. I guess once you hit Shamong and Tabernacle...it's definitely more rural, but you get way more land than in most places. I'm in the market for a lakefront house in Medford and have examined a few places west of the city...I don't find much comparison (though it seems like apples to oranges, I suppose).

It's really a matter of taste, I'd imagine. I cannot imagine ever living on the Main Line. As I'm sure some could never imagine living in South Jersey.

Wow I have now helped further this thread's off-topic vibe. Whoops.

I don't like Cherry Hill and Voorhees because I don't like relentless suburban sprawl. Tract housing, strip malls, and big box stores as far as the eye can see do not a community make. I don't care how wealthy some of the developments are. Giant houses on tiny lots are a veritable eyesore in my humble opinion. I'd rather live in Collingswood. At least it has some personality.

And LOL at the Main Line being "insanely pretentious." If you want to fling around tired stereotypes, Cherry Hill/Voorhees nouveau riche are leaps and bounds more insufferable. At least Main Liners have some class.

Other than playing a round of golf at Medford Lakes Country Club, I haven't spent much time in the township. It's definitely more charming than Cherry Hill (not that that takes a whole lot), but I'd say the woods/lakes combination is pleasing to the eye (even if none of the lakes are actually natural). There seems to be a fair amount of custom construction too, which is good.

Also, I looked up the numbers. According to the 2009 American Community Survey Estimates, Medford is the least wealthy of the three municipalities, although other than lagging a bit in per capita income (which indicates there are fewer highly affluent resident earners above the median income) there isn't much of a difference.

Haddonfield
Median Household Income: $109,259
Median Family Income: $129,750
Per Capita Income: $56,567
Median Owner-Occupied Home Value: $457,300

Moorestown
Median Household Income: $108,995
Median Family Income: $128,811
Per Capita Income: Income: $58,030
Median Owner-Occupied Home Value: $500,900

Medford
Median Household Income: $104,338
Median Family Imcome: $117,882
Per Capita Income: $43,997
Median owner-Occupied Home Value: $400,800


Ha...sorry I went to a private high school with some main liners, a college and law school with them as well...and perhaps those individuals came across as insanely pretentious...my bad on the blanket statement. Though, once again...I guess we should both avoid blanket statements...a few of my friends are from Voorhees and Cherry Hill...a vast majority of them have both class and tact as well as wealthy families. It's all a matter of attitude not location. I also realized that the numbers I checked were 2000 after the post (thanks random googling and Monday night tiredness)...at least glad to see that the median home price is lower in the area I'm looking....Haddonfield was killing my budget.

Last, I think a devent amount of lakes in Medford are natural. It began as a resort town for wealthy Philadelphians in the 1920s who didn't want to travel to the shores. Hence why the YMCA has one of their only camps in the nation there as well as why older log homes were built right on top of the lakes (sadly, you cannot get flood insurance)....I'd like to think some community planning could have corrected that, but alas. Check it out...the only man-made lakes I know of in town are Stockwell, a dammed portion of Mimosa and Taunton...at least that's what I have been told from realtors. Most have been dammed...thus rearranging them, but I'm pretty sure some are natural cedar lakes...who knows. They could know nothing, I suppose....I'm only learning most of this through the realty process.

And oddly the numbers I found for 2011 are:

Moorestown Household Income $103,586
Medford Household Income $105,629
Haddonfield Household Income $114,451

Semantics at this point...I guess my point was that there are other towns besides just Haddonfield and Moorestown. Mullica Hill? Lumberton? Off the map places can be decent...I'd just hate to shut down all other towns for those two. Btw, TOTALLY agree on Collingswood (even beyond the failed Lumber Yard Project) as well as Merchantville. I a little too close to Philly and sprawl for me, but I get it. Not everyone wants acres of land...but, hey, I have a large dog.

In the end, DON'T LIVE IN SOUTH JERZ for Penn.

HeavenWood
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Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:54 am

Aristone wrote:Ha...sorry I went to a private high school with some main liners, a college and law school with them as well...and perhaps those individuals came across as insanely pretentious...my bad on the blanket statement. Though, once again...I guess we should both avoid blanket statements...a few of my friends are from Voorhees and Cherry Hill...a vast majority of them have both class and tact as well as wealthy families. It's all a matter of attitude not location. I also realized that the numbers I checked were 2000 after the post (thanks random googling and Monday night tiredness)...at least glad to see that the median home price is lower in the area I'm looking....Haddonfield was killing my budget.

Last, I think a devent amount of lakes in Medford are natural. It began as a resort town for wealthy Philadelphians in the 1920s who didn't want to travel to the shores. Hence why the YMCA has one of their only camps in the nation there as well as why older log homes were built right on top of the lakes (sadly, you cannot get flood insurance)....I'd like to think some community planning could have corrected that, but alas. Check it out...the only man-made lakes I know of in town are Stockwell, a dammed portion of Mimosa and Taunton...at least that's what I have been told from realtors. Most have been dammed...thus rearranging them, but I'm pretty sure some are natural cedar lakes...who knows. They could know nothing, I suppose....I'm only learning most of this through the realty process.

And oddly the numbers I found for 2011 are:

Moorestown Household Income $103,586
Medford Household Income $105,629
Haddonfield Household Income $114,451

Semantics at this point...I guess my point was that there are other towns besides just Haddonfield and Moorestown. Mullica Hill? Lumberton? Off the map places can be decent...I'd just hate to shut down all other towns for those two. Btw, TOTALLY agree on Collingswood (even beyond the failed Lumber Yard Project) as well as Merchantville. I a little too close to Philly and sprawl for me, but I get it. Not everyone wants acres of land...but, hey, I have a large dog.

In the end, DON'T LIVE IN SOUTH JERZ for Penn.

The income #s I got were from the U.S. Census website (where did you find yours):
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/ ... l?_lang=en

And hey, the Main Line definitely has more than its fair share of snobbery, I just hate blanket stereotypes (I don't seriously think the wealthy parts of Cherry/Hill Voorhees are universally nouveau riche, I just wanted to throw the generalizations back in your face ;)). I would say that Main Line snobbery is a bit different than Cherry Hill/Voorhees snobbery though (stiff and crusty v. flashy and tacky), and I'm not really a fan of either. I also didn't quite mean to imply that nowhere else besides Haddonfield or Moorestown was liveable in South Jersey. I just always saw those places as the creme de la creme.

Interesting that some of those lakes in Medford are natural. The member I played with at Medford Village (I actually played there, not Medford Lakes) said all the lakes in the area were man-made, but I guess he was wrong.

Aristone
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Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Philadelphia

Postby Aristone » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:51 am

HeavenWood wrote:
Aristone wrote:Ha...sorry I went to a private high school with some main liners, a college and law school with them as well...and perhaps those individuals came across as insanely pretentious...my bad on the blanket statement. Though, once again...I guess we should both avoid blanket statements...a few of my friends are from Voorhees and Cherry Hill...a vast majority of them have both class and tact as well as wealthy families. It's all a matter of attitude not location. I also realized that the numbers I checked were 2000 after the post (thanks random googling and Monday night tiredness)...at least glad to see that the median home price is lower in the area I'm looking....Haddonfield was killing my budget.

Last, I think a devent amount of lakes in Medford are natural. It began as a resort town for wealthy Philadelphians in the 1920s who didn't want to travel to the shores. Hence why the YMCA has one of their only camps in the nation there as well as why older log homes were built right on top of the lakes (sadly, you cannot get flood insurance)....I'd like to think some community planning could have corrected that, but alas. Check it out...the only lakes I know of in town are Stockwell, a dammed portion of Mimosa and Taunton...at least that's what I have been told from realtors. Most have been dammed...thus rearranging them, but I'm pretty sure some are natural cedar lakes...who knows. They could know nothing, I suppose....I'm only learning most of this through the realty process.

And oddly the numbers I found for 2011 are:

Moorestown Household Income $103,586
Medford Household Income $105,629
Haddonfield Household Income $114,451

Semantics at this point...I guess my point was that there are other towns besides just Haddonfield and Moorestown. Mullica Hill? Lumberton? Off the map places can be decent...I'd just hate to shut down all other towns for those two. Btw, TOTALLY agree on Collingswood (even beyond the failed Lumber Yard Project) as well as Merchantville. I a little too close to Philly and sprawl for me, but I get it. Not everyone wants acres of land...but, hey, I have a large dog.

In the end, DON'T LIVE IN SOUTH JERZ for Penn.

The income #s I got were from the U.S. Census website (where did you find yours):
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/ ... l?_lang=en

And hey, the Main Line definitely has more than its fair share of snobbery, I just hate blanket stereotypes (I don't seriously think the wealthy parts of Cherry/Hill Voorhees are universally nouveau riche, I just wanted to throw the generalizations back in your face ;)). I would say that Main Line snobbery is a bit different than Cherry Hill/Voorhees snobbery though (stiff and crusty v. flashy and tacky), and I'm not really a fan of either. I also didn't quite mean to imply that nowhere else besides Haddonfield or Moorestown was liveable in South Jersey. I just always saw those places as the creme de la creme.

Interesting that some of those lakes in Medford are natural. The member I played with at Medford Village (I actually played there, not Medford Lakes) said all the lakes in the area were man-made, but I guess he was wrong.


Well I'd hope realtors might know a little more than the random members of MVCC....as material misrepresentations are bad for the biz.

You said "I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning)." That doesn't imply anything...that seems like a bit of a fact as well as diss on some of the finer areas of Southern New Jersey. Further, "stiff and crusty v/ flashy and tacky" is, again, a blanket statement to which you maintain you're against...fail. Last, you stated that "many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill"...I'd be pleasantly surprised if those kids could afford a private school like St. Joe's Prep or Bishop Eustace to which most of these poor Cherry Hill people send their kids to. Roughly 5% of Ardmore is below the poverty line (clearly less than Cherry Hill...but considered as "poor")...I'm not sure they'd be consider rich anywhere but Camden or North Philly. I hope they are not the ones who would be "rich" in Cherry Hill...or they need to reevaluate putting a Nordstroms in the area. Are you sure you know the area?

We'll agree to disagree...but you do seem slightly combative. I thought we generally agreed in the end....but you're bringing up semantics. Is everything ok? Do you resent your town or something? It's just slightly disconcerting to see someone so combative against someone else who relatively agrees with them via an anonymous site. It's PA v NJ...we're not California or anything. Geezu. Regardless, I'll be happy to live here and commute to Philly...love the area. And I'm happy you love your area.

Clearly this thread got off track, my apologies.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:17 am

Aristone wrote:You said "I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning)." That doesn't imply anything...that seems like a bit of a fact as well as diss on some of the finer areas of Southern New Jersey.

The Main Line is a pretty special place. There are plenty of nice places that are not the Main Line, but I, along with many other people, consider it the pinnacle of the Philadelphia suburbs. Except for those two towns, I don't think anywhere else in South Jersey quite compares (and note that I intended there to be more than a hint of sarcasm in the tone of my statement, although this is the internet, so it isn't always easy to pick up).
Aristone wrote:Further, "stiff and crusty v/ flashy and tacky" is, again, a blanket statement to which you maintain you're against...fail.

I was referring to the snob subset, not the wealthy as a whole, so not a fail at all. There's definitely a difference in culture among the "ill-behaved" of our respective rich. I dated a girl from Voorhees, so I spent enough time in the area to realize the differences. :roll:
Aristone wrote:Last, you stated that "many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill"...I'd be pleasantly surprised if those kids could afford a private school like St. Joe's Prep or Bishop Eustace to which most of these poor Cherry Hill people send their kids to. Roughly 5% of Ardmore is below the poverty line (clearly less than Cherry Hill...but considered as "poor")...I'm not sure they'd be consider rich anywhere but Camden or North Philly. I hope they are not the ones who would be "rich" in Cherry Hill...or they need to reevaluate putting a Nordstroms in the area. Are you sure you know the area?

Yeah brah, I'm sure I know the area. Did you notice I put "poor" in quotation marks? Some of the Main Liners with less perspective would consider a family of four in Ardmore and Narberth making 125k a year to be "poor." Of course, that isn't actually poor but upper-middle class, IE, those folks would be among the "rich" of Greentree and Springdale. Subtext, man. Subtext. Hardly anyone in Ardmore or Narberth is actually poor (are you sure you know MY area?). I mean Jesus Christ, man, the median family incomes (2009 numbers) there are respectively 106k and 126k. This goes back to what I said before about the "haves" v. "have-nots" dichotomy being a relative (as opposed to an absolute) distinction in most places.
Aristone wrote:We'll agree to disagree...but you do seem slightly combative.

As do you.
Aristone wrote:I thought we generally agreed in the end....but you're bringing up semantics. Is everything ok? Do you resent your town or something? It's just slightly disconcerting to see someone so combative against someone else who relatively agrees with them via an anonymous site. It's PA v NJ...we're not California or anything. Geezu. Regardless, I'll be happy to live here and commute to Philly...love the area. And I'm happy you love your area.

Clearly this thread got off track, my apologies.

I don't resent my town at all. I have had problems with people making nasty assumptions about me solely based off where I grew up, which you seemed all too happy to do.

Are we finished here?

Aristone
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Philadelphia

Postby Aristone » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:42 am

HeavenWood wrote:
Aristone wrote:You said "I can't wait to hear this one (and if you mention anywhere in South Jersey besides Haddonfield or Moorestown you lose all credibility... just a fair warning)." That doesn't imply anything...that seems like a bit of a fact as well as diss on some of the finer areas of Southern New Jersey.

The Main Line is a pretty special place. There are plenty of nice places that are not the Main Line, but I, along with many other people, consider it the pinnacle of the Philadelphia suburbs. I don't think anywhere else in the Philly MSA quite compares (and note that I intended there to be more than a hint of sarcasm in the tone of my statement, although this is the internet, so it isn't always easy to pick up).
Aristone wrote:Further, "stiff and crusty v/ flashy and tacky" is, again, a blanket statement to which you maintain you're against...fail.

I was referring to the snob subset, not the wealthy as a whole, so not a fail at all. There's definitely a difference in culture among the "ill-behaved" of our respective rich. :roll:
Aristone wrote:Last, you stated that "many of the "poor" kids from Narberth and Ardmore would be among the upper crust in places like Cherry Hill"...I'd be pleasantly surprised if those kids could afford a private school like St. Joe's Prep or Bishop Eustace to which most of these poor Cherry Hill people send their kids to. Roughly 5% of Ardmore is below the poverty line (clearly less than Cherry Hill...but considered as "poor")...I'm not sure they'd be consider rich anywhere but Camden or North Philly. I hope they are not the ones who would be "rich" in Cherry Hill...or they need to reevaluate putting a Nordstroms in the area. Are you sure you know the area?

Yeah brah, I'm sure I know the area. Did you notice I put "poor" in quotation marks? Some of the Main Liners with less perspective would consider a family of four in Ardmore and Narberth making 125k a year to be "poor." Of course, that isn't actually poor but upper-middle class, IE, those folks would be among the "rich" of Greentree and Springdale. Subtext, man. Subtext. Hardly anyone in Ardmore or Narberth is actually poor (are you sure you know MY area?). I mean Jesus Christ, man, the median family incomes (2009 numbers) there are respectively 106k and 126k. This goes back to what I said before about the "haves" v. "have-nots" dichotomy being a relative (as opposed to an absolute) distinction in most places.
Aristone wrote:We'll agree to disagree...but you do seem slightly combative.

As do you.
Aristone wrote:I thought we generally agreed in the end....but you're bringing up semantics. Is everything ok? Do you resent your town or something? It's just slightly disconcerting to see someone so combative against someone else who relatively agrees with them via an anonymous site. It's PA v NJ...we're not California or anything. Geezu. Regardless, I'll be happy to live here and commute to Philly...love the area. And I'm happy you love your area.

Clearly this thread got off track, my apologies.

I don't resent my town at all. I have had problems with people making nasty assumptions about me solely based off where I grew up, which you seemed all too happy to do.

Are we finished here?


Interesting that my comments come after your initial blanket statement about Haddonfield and Moorestown having the only credibility in NJ...then further blanket statements that I listed above and yet you have no answer. Pot meet kettle. I didn't interject otherwise but briefly.

I made a blanket statement which I regret (though to be fair, you're desperately furthering it)....and yet you have made about five or six in this thread to which you won't own nor explain Good luck with everything.

It's hard arguing with people who have never touched a single courtroom, done any case work and so forth...especially when they answer only one of your many inquiries about the past. Night. And yes, graduating from Pitt in 2011 means little to me.

Also, others...dont be discouraged by the terribleness of Heavenwood...Philly people are usually nice, normal, non-combative and easygoing. Plus they can usually frame their arguments marginally better. I hope this thread gave you some info in the first few pages. Please disregard my and his banter. Go to bed, Heaven...you're making an embarrassment of yourself.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Philadelphia

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:47 am

Aristone wrote:Also, others...dont be discouraged by the terribleness of Heavenwood...Philly people are usually nice, normal, non-combative and easygoing. Plus they can usually frame their arguments marginally better. I hope this thread gave you some info in the first few pages. Please disregard my and his banter. Go to bed, Heaven...you're making an embarrassment of yourself.

:lol:

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh. Are you upset that I was right about Narberth and Ardmore? They're pretty nice areas. The gilded parts of Cherry Hill should be so lucky as to be compared to them (since you appear to need a primer on what is and what isn't sarcasm, the preceding sentence was meant to be sarcastic).

And learn to come up with better insults... "don't be discouraged by the terribleness of heavenwood..." Classic. Will we be hearing any more gems from you tonight Aris, or have you exhausted the extent of your creative ability?

And tell me. What do you need clarified? What haven't I explained? I'd be happy to reiterate anything you weren't quite able to understand the first go around.

Aristone
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:20 am

Re: Philadelphia

Postby Aristone » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:00 am

No worries...I'm glad I gave you a laugh. You seem like you might need it.

Btw...in no way have you substantiated nor argued any point to my last post other than to claim a "good laugh" and "sarcasm". Hope that works out for you in the court of law...I desperately hope you didn't spend too much for that Penn education to fall into the median...my firm won't accept you then.

Now I feel like we've both lost people wanting to come to Philly due to our pettyness...oy. All I can say is...at least it's not as insane as New York?

And yes, I'm not asking the question, we're done here.


Signed,

Someone who has a big firm job and went to law school for (pretty much) free...hence why I can buy a house with relatively no mortgage at 28. Good luck with everything.

Peace out.




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