What to do about desire to stay in AZ

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gaud
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What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby gaud » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:44 pm

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Last edited by gaud on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:52 pm

gaud wrote:I have a family in AZ and would probably enjoy spending the rest of my life here. My SO has her career here (famous family business and solid network, not a law firm unfortunately haha)

BUT I will more than likely have some solid options in the top 20 that will compete with my desire to attend a school like ASU. Now I know from a career focus it would probably be wise to choose and out-of-state, higher ranked law school but will it be easier for me to secure employment in state if I attend ASU (with good scholly $)?

To sum up my concerns, I really just don't want to be left unable to return to AZ if I decide that I want to practice there.

Any thoughts? Insight?

Thank you very much.


A friend of mine went to UCLA (he was a native of CA), and at graduation, he had two offers from large firms in Phoenix. I don't know if his story is typical, but, he was a pretty big slacker and I know he didn't graduate near the top of his class... My guess is if he, with no ties to AZ, was able to get two offers from Phoenix firms, you will probably be able to find work in Phoenix if you go to UCLA... With your numbers, I think you'd have a great shot at UCLA.

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Pato_09
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Pato_09 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:54 pm

If accepted at a T-14, you should have no problem coming back to AZ.

But if its Top 20, it depends which school. In this case, I would probably recommend to go to ASU or U of A.

It really depends if you can crack the Top-14 - what are your numbers?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:59 pm

Like most firms in secondary markets, those in Phoenix will be concerned about ties. Sounds like you have excellent ties, and with those numbers you will have great options in the T-14. If your family situation allows for it you'd do well to leave AZ for law school.

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Pato_09
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Pato_09 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:01 pm

Just saw your numbers.

You have a very good shot at T-14 - apply everywhere.

Assuming you want big law, I would recommend Top-14 over ASU/U of A $$ (which is what I did), and it went really well.

PM if you want - I was in a similar situation.

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gaud
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby gaud » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:03 pm

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Last edited by gaud on Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

desertlaw
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby desertlaw » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:09 pm

There's a thread somewhere in here about discussion between UVa vs. ASU that would be helpful for you. Essentially you probably need top 1/4 of the class in at school like MVP to get Phoenix BigLaw. But it's hard to help you without knowing your stats.

Feel free to PM for specific questions (I was kind of in similar situation).

If significant other/wife is making money while you're in school, that can definitely help keep the debt down. (But you'll have double living expenses too?)

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Pato_09
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Pato_09 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm

gaud wrote:
Pato_09 wrote:If accepted at a T-14, you should have no problem coming back to AZ.

But if its Top 20, it depends which school. In this case, I would probably recommend to go to ASU or U of A.

It really depends if you can crack the Top-14 - what are your numbers?



3.7 and 170 (with a 159 and a 164).........

I tend to agree it depends on cracking the Top 14, which kinda led me to asking for some reassurance. Would any Top 14 suffice? Even schools like UT-Austion and Cornell? (Obviously i'll be aiming higher than that though)


Cornell Absolutely. UT will probably be ok too, but Cornell generally places better in big law.

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gaud
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby gaud » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:23 pm

Seriously, thank you all for the help. I pm'd you for more info Pato_09

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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby desertlaw » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:01 pm

But if you want to go to Phoenix, Texas and Cornell would be viewed at as the same. I suppose maybe choose Cornell because it could get you into BigLaw better as a back-up plan if Phoenix doesn't work. But I'm guessing that the T9-14 is all viewed the same at Snell, Fennemore, etc.

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Glock
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Glock » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:03 am

T14-> Texas -> Vandy -> USC/UCLA -> ASU/UA

I rank the some higher than ASU/UA because the backup options are better if you are outside of the tippy top of the class.

ITE you must be top 10% at ASU/UA to expect biglaw. The class rank needs are lower from better schools, but are still higher than you'd expect.

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gaud
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby gaud » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:41 am

Glock wrote:T14-> Texas -> Vandy -> USC/UCLA -> ASU/UA

I rank the some higher than ASU/UA because the backup options are better if you are outside of the tippy top of the class.

ITE you must be top 10% at ASU/UA to expect biglaw. The class rank needs are lower from better schools, but are still higher than you'd expect.



Good to know, thank you!

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Tom Joad
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Tom Joad » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:46 am

But will you really want to live in Arizona when the Colorado River dries up?

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Veyron
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Veyron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:54 am

I'll just echo what Patco says.

Don't go out of state for below T14. Its not easy to get jobs out of ASU/UofA but then again, its not easy to get jobs out of GW either.

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Glock
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Glock » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:35 am

Veyron wrote:I'll just echo what Patco says.

Don't go out of state for below T14. Its not easy to get jobs out of ASU/UofA but then again, its not easy to get jobs out of GW either.



He is 3.7/170, which puts him in a weird spot. I'd take Texas/USC/UCLA with $$/$$$- if you can get it- over ASU/UA with $$$$. Plus, ending up in Texas is not bad. HUGE advantage for COA vs. salary.

I'm not sure if sticker at a mid-T14 is worth some of the risk. Maybe $ or $$ at a lower T14?

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Veyron
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Veyron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:27 pm

Glock wrote:
Veyron wrote:I'll just echo what Patco says.

Don't go out of state for below T14. Its not easy to get jobs out of ASU/UofA but then again, its not easy to get jobs out of GW either.



He is 3.7/170, which puts him in a weird spot. I'd take Texas/USC/UCLA with $$/$$$- if you can get it- over ASU/UA with $$$$. Plus, ending up in Texas is not bad. HUGE advantage for COA vs. salary.

I'm not sure if sticker at a mid-T14 is worth some of the risk. Maybe $ or $$ at a lower T14?


The whole mid/lower whatever T14 concept doesn't exist in Arizona so go wherever you get the most money in the T14 or wherever you like the best for personal reasons except if you get HYS.

I also agree that Texas and UCLA are worth a slight premium. USC probably isn't (except insofar as the alumni network is awesome).

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:30 pm

I think if you really want to work as a lawyer you have to be willing to end up outside of Arizona.

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Veyron
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Veyron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:25 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I think if you really want to work as a lawyer you have to be willing to end up outside of Arizona.


I think you're daft.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:30 pm

Veyron wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I think if you really want to work as a lawyer you have to be willing to end up outside of Arizona.


I think you're daft.


I think you're all sixes and sevens.

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gaud
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby gaud » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:31 pm

So even if I get stuck paying some $$$ at the T14's and/or Texas/UCLA I should be considering those schools over ASU/UofA?

You guys are all extremely helpful so thank you.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:35 pm

gaud wrote:So even if I get stuck paying some $$$ at the T14's and/or Texas/UCLA I should be considering those schools over ASU/UofA?

You guys are all extremely helpful so thank you.


I'd do that because the fallback options will be better if you don't excel in law school. You should get enough from those schools to make it worthwhile so that you only have to pay the slight premium as Veyron suggested.

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gaud
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby gaud » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:45 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
gaud wrote:So even if I get stuck paying some $$$ at the T14's and/or Texas/UCLA I should be considering those schools over ASU/UofA?

You guys are all extremely helpful so thank you.


I'd do that because the fallback options will be better if you don't excel in law school. You should get enough from those schools to make it worthwhile so that you only have to pay the slight premium as Veyron suggested.



Thanks!

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Glock
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Glock » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:32 pm

gaud wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
gaud wrote:So even if I get stuck paying some $$$ at the T14's and/or Texas/UCLA I should be considering those schools over ASU/UofA?

You guys are all extremely helpful so thank you.


I'd do that because the fallback options will be better if you don't excel in law school. You should get enough from those schools to make it worthwhile so that you only have to pay the slight premium as Veyron suggested.



Thanks!



The answer is that you should clearly not go to ASU/UA. Either T14 with $ or Texas/UCLA with $$$.

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Veyron
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby Veyron » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:51 pm

Glock wrote:
gaud wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
gaud wrote:So even if I get stuck paying some $$$ at the T14's and/or Texas/UCLA I should be considering those schools over ASU/UofA?

You guys are all extremely helpful so thank you.


I'd do that because the fallback options will be better if you don't excel in law school. You should get enough from those schools to make it worthwhile so that you only have to pay the slight premium as Veyron suggested.



Thanks!



The answer is that you should clearly not go to ASU/UA. Either T14 with $ or Texas/UCLA with $$$.


This is not as clear cut as you make it out to be. A full ride at ASU/U of A is well worth considering over 10k a year at a T14. Just consider what student loan payments on 200k in debt (30k/yr) will do to your income for the next 10 years, especially student loans are mostly not tax deductible. So say you make 100k (not quite market but close, and something that a lot of Phoenix firms pay around). You have 70 left after loans. The state and federal tax on 100k is about 20,000. Now you have 50k left. Or, you could have gone to U of A, graduated with no debt, and as long as you could land a 60k job, you end up just as well off.

That being said, half of the kids at ASU/U of A are graduating sans job which certainly isn't the case at Penn.

fsuitw
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Re: What to do about desire to stay in AZ

Postby fsuitw » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:52 pm

Federal taxes alone on $100,000 would be around 28%. I make well below that in a lower bracket and see about 60-70% (with state and federal) of my salary. I did notice something in the news about some new loan forgiveness laws coming into effect, which is promising considering the mountain of loans most of us plan on taking out. I would think that any scholarship at either AZ school with in state tuition would be a better deal, especially considering how low COL can be in Tempe and Tucson (Tucson is especially cheap).




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