T6 vs. Rest of T14

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Helmholtz
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:01 pm

Quite possibly one of the worst threads for accurate information in the history of TLS.

T6 with a little scholarship is not worth taking over MVP with nearly a full ride. From somebody who knows a lot of people at MVP and a lot of people at CCN, I think the biggest differences are going to be at the bottom 25% to median points in the class. The T6 people around those marks definitely have a much better safety net than MVP people around those marks, from what I can tell. For the people that are median to top quarter, you'll see a difference, but not as pronounced as the previous group. The people who are, say, top quarter to top 10% are in a gray area—being at CCN might help, it might make not that much of a difference, who knows. And I haven't been able to see much of a difference in career prospects between the people who are top 10% + LR at CCN versus the people who are top 10% + LR at MVP. I also think there is a greater chance of having a shot at a dream firm at CCN—it seems like a lot of the top firms are willing to dip lower into CCN's classes than at MVP. In general, if I was bottom third or median, I would sure as hell feel more comfortable at CCN versus MVP. But in the end, enough money would make it worth it for MVP.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:03 pm

Curious1 wrote:I'm not saying there aren't perfectly valid reasons to choose a lower T-14 over HYSCC, but the difference exists, and you would be blind to ignore it. What you end up choosing depends on how much money you have and how debt-averse you are.

I'm a bit of a prestige whore so it's HYSCCN for me in that order, barring something truly outrageous like a Ruby at Chicago versus $0 at Harvard. If I had to count it numerically, I might say:

I MIGHT choose CC over HYS if they gave me full rides and HYS gave me nothing.

I WOULD choose N over CC if N gave me 50K more than CC.

I WOULD choose a lower T14 over N is they gave me a full ride and N gave me nothing. I would NOT choose a lower T14 over HYSCC for anything.

This is just me. You're free to do otherwise. There's no wrong choice here...all of these are great schools...It's like choosing between a Bentley and a Maserati.


Sensible. I was more or less attacking the little chart you made, not your own personal stance towards HYSCC.

Curious1
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby Curious1 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:03 pm

Sensible. I was more or less attacking the little chart you made, not your own personal stance towards HYSCC.



In my defense, I'm hungry.

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:04 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Quite possibly one of the worst threads for accurate information in the history of TLS.

T6 with a little scholarship is not worth taking over MVP with nearly a full ride. From somebody who knows a lot of people at MVP and a lot of people at CCN, I think the biggest differences are going to be at the bottom 25% to median points in the class. The T6 people around those marks definitely have a much better safety net than MVP people around those marks, from what I can tell. For the people that are median to top quarter, you'll see a difference, but not as pronounced as the previous group. The people who are, say, top quarter to top 10% are in a gray area—being at CCN might help, it might make not that much of a difference, who knows. And I haven't been able to see much of a difference in career prospects between the people who are top 10% + LR at CCN versus the people who are top 10% + LR at MVP. I also think there is a greater chance of having a shot at a dream firm at CCN—it seems like a lot of the top firms are willing to dip lower into CCN's classes than at MVP. In general, if I was bottom third or median, I would sure as hell feel more comfortable at CCN versus MVP.


Don't come in here with reason, experience, and anecdotal evidence. 2Ls aren't welcome to weigh in according to OP.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:05 pm

blowhard wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:But speaking seriously, I searched briefly and did not find a thread devoted to this dichotomy specifically.

Also -- it IS weird to hang around a law school admissions forum once you're in law school, especially if it's your second year already. Stop being a douchebag just because you've been here for an unnecessarily long time. It is not an accomplishment.


This forum is about way more than admissions. The employment threads are crucial for 2Ls doing OCI. And, much of the employment advice comes from graduates who still pop in to answer questions. Most 1Ls don't answer questions as they don't have time.

Out of the two of you, you are the one being a douchebag. As such, this 2L won't be answering YOUR question. HTH.


I understand that; I just don't think people who have been here longer should be touting that around like an accomplishment. There was no need to respond to what I said with a sarcastic comment. This is a legitimate thread, especially since people's views have changed as per the economy.


His sarcasm had less to do with him being around a long time, and more to do with the fact this has been debated to death on a routine basis. Sometimes, near daily. There is no correct opinion and it by definition must rest on huge amounts of speculation. This thread therefore adds nothing to the debate.


1. I don't care if it's been debated a million times, we can do it again.
2. As per the huge debate going on in this thread, I would say continued debate is better than no debate.

How to fix the economy has been debated a million times--continuing the debate about would add nothing, right? So let's end it?

Going back on track: I don't think people choose between CCN full debt vs. MVPB no debt. It's usually more nuanced, with CCN giving less money and MVPB giving more. Is the excess debt worth CCN if you want BigLaw in NY?

lawyerwannabe
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:06 pm

blowhard wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Quite possibly one of the worst threads for accurate information in the history of TLS.

T6 with a little scholarship is not worth taking over MVP with nearly a full ride. From somebody who knows a lot of people at MVP and a lot of people at CCN, I think the biggest differences are going to be at the bottom 25% to median points in the class. The T6 people around those marks definitely have a much better safety net than MVP people around those marks, from what I can tell. For the people that are median to top quarter, you'll see a difference, but not as pronounced as the previous group. The people who are, say, top quarter to top 10% are in a gray area—being at CCN might help, it might make not that much of a difference, who knows. And I haven't been able to see much of a difference in career prospects between the people who are top 10% + LR at CCN versus the people who are top 10% + LR at MVP. I also think there is a greater chance of having a shot at a dream firm at CCN—it seems like a lot of the top firms are willing to dip lower into CCN's classes than at MVP. In general, if I was bottom third or median, I would sure as hell feel more comfortable at CCN versus MVP.


Don't come in here with reason, experience, and anecdotal evidence. 2Ls aren't welcome to weigh in according to OP.


No one likes someone who has answers. People prefer to speculate on top of speculations. Go away.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:09 pm

blowhard wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Quite possibly one of the worst threads for accurate information in the history of TLS.

T6 with a little scholarship is not worth taking over MVP with nearly a full ride. From somebody who knows a lot of people at MVP and a lot of people at CCN, I think the biggest differences are going to be at the bottom 25% to median points in the class. The T6 people around those marks definitely have a much better safety net than MVP people around those marks, from what I can tell. For the people that are median to top quarter, you'll see a difference, but not as pronounced as the previous group. The people who are, say, top quarter to top 10% are in a gray area—being at CCN might help, it might make not that much of a difference, who knows. And I haven't been able to see much of a difference in career prospects between the people who are top 10% + LR at CCN versus the people who are top 10% + LR at MVP. I also think there is a greater chance of having a shot at a dream firm at CCN—it seems like a lot of the top firms are willing to dip lower into CCN's classes than at MVP. In general, if I was bottom third or median, I would sure as hell feel more comfortable at CCN versus MVP.


Don't come in here with reason, experience, and anecdotal evidence. 2Ls aren't welcome to weigh in according to OP.


Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.

Curious1
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby Curious1 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:11 pm

Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.


How was the bolded statement constructive in any way? Were you raised by chimpanzees?

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paratactical
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:11 pm

The problem is that it's pretty much a case by case evaluation. When debt is worth it depends on so many smaller factors that a hypothetical CCN no money v MVP full ride misses out on. These debates tend to spring up when people actually have hard numbers to go on and tend to be informed by those specific numbers. I don't recall many $0 debt v. total loan debates but they will come up as acceptances and scholarship information come out.

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:11 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Quite possibly one of the worst threads for accurate information in the history of TLS.

T6 with a little scholarship is not worth taking over MVP with nearly a full ride. From somebody who knows a lot of people at MVP and a lot of people at CCN, I think the biggest differences are going to be at the bottom 25% to median points in the class. The T6 people around those marks definitely have a much better safety net than MVP people around those marks, from what I can tell. For the people that are median to top quarter, you'll see a difference, but not as pronounced as the previous group. The people who are, say, top quarter to top 10% are in a gray area—being at CCN might help, it might make not that much of a difference, who knows. And I haven't been able to see much of a difference in career prospects between the people who are top 10% + LR at CCN versus the people who are top 10% + LR at MVP. I also think there is a greater chance of having a shot at a dream firm at CCN—it seems like a lot of the top firms are willing to dip lower into CCN's classes than at MVP. In general, if I was bottom third or median, I would sure as hell feel more comfortable at CCN versus MVP.


Don't come in here with reason, experience, and anecdotal evidence. 2Ls aren't welcome to weigh in according to OP.


Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.


Emotional issues? You need to grow up. Bronte may have been sarcastic but your reply was downright immature, and aggressive. You have a lot to learn.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:12 pm

Curious1 wrote:I'm not saying there aren't perfectly valid reasons to choose a lower T-14 over HYSCC, but the difference exists, and you would be blind to ignore it. What you end up choosing depends on how much money you have and how debt-averse you are.

I'm a bit of a prestige whore so it's HYSCCN for me in that order, barring something truly outrageous like a Ruby at Chicago versus $0 at Harvard. If I had to count it numerically, I might say:

I MIGHT choose CC over HYS if they gave me full rides and HYS gave me nothing.

I WOULD choose N over CC if N gave me 50K more than CC.

I WOULD choose a lower T14 over N is they gave me a full ride and N gave me nothing. I would NOT choose a lower T14 over HYSCC for anything.

This is just me. You're free to do otherwise. There's no wrong choice here...all of these are great schools...It's like choosing between a Bentley and a Maserati.


This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:13 pm

Curious1 wrote:
Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.


How was the bolded statement constructive in any way? Were you raised by chimpanzees?


Says the man defending a 2L's sarcastic/non-constructive comment?

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:13 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:I'm not saying there aren't perfectly valid reasons to choose a lower T-14 over HYSCC, but the difference exists, and you would be blind to ignore it. What you end up choosing depends on how much money you have and how debt-averse you are.

I'm a bit of a prestige whore so it's HYSCCN for me in that order, barring something truly outrageous like a Ruby at Chicago versus $0 at Harvard. If I had to count it numerically, I might say:

I MIGHT choose CC over HYS if they gave me full rides and HYS gave me nothing.

I WOULD choose N over CC if N gave me 50K more than CC.

I WOULD choose a lower T14 over N is they gave me a full ride and N gave me nothing. I would NOT choose a lower T14 over HYSCC for anything.

This is just me. You're free to do otherwise. There's no wrong choice here...all of these are great schools...It's like choosing between a Bentley and a Maserati.


This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


How can this be helpful? Do you even have any acceptances yet? You're putting the cart before the horse here. Worry about this problem when you actually have this problem.

Curious1
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby Curious1 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:13 pm


This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


If I had to quantify I would say N is worth 100K more to me than lower T14s. So if lower T14 gave me 200K and NYU gave me 100K, I'd still NYU.

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:14 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:
Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.


How was the bolded statement constructive in any way? Were you raised by chimpanzees?


Says the man defending a 2L's sarcastic/non-constructive comment?


My comment was meant to be suggestive to you that you should reform your approach to dealing with people. It was therefore constructive (although sarcastic).

Curious1
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby Curious1 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:14 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:
Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.


How was the bolded statement constructive in any way? Were you raised by chimpanzees?


Says the man defending a 2L's sarcastic/non-constructive comment?


You're the one trying to get help. The onus is on you not to be an ass.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:15 pm

blowhard wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:I'm not saying there aren't perfectly valid reasons to choose a lower T-14 over HYSCC, but the difference exists, and you would be blind to ignore it. What you end up choosing depends on how much money you have and how debt-averse you are.

I'm a bit of a prestige whore so it's HYSCCN for me in that order, barring something truly outrageous like a Ruby at Chicago versus $0 at Harvard. If I had to count it numerically, I might say:

I MIGHT choose CC over HYS if they gave me full rides and HYS gave me nothing.

I WOULD choose N over CC if N gave me 50K more than CC.

I WOULD choose a lower T14 over N is they gave me a full ride and N gave me nothing. I would NOT choose a lower T14 over HYSCC for anything.

This is just me. You're free to do otherwise. There's no wrong choice here...all of these are great schools...It's like choosing between a Bentley and a Maserati.


This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


How can this be helpful? Do you even have any acceptances yet? You're putting the cart before the horse here. Worry about this problem when you actually have this problem.


Jesus Christ...I get it...you hate me. Can you get the fuck out of the thread?

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby kaiser » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:15 pm

blowhard wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:I'm not saying there aren't perfectly valid reasons to choose a lower T-14 over HYSCC, but the difference exists, and you would be blind to ignore it. What you end up choosing depends on how much money you have and how debt-averse you are.

I'm a bit of a prestige whore so it's HYSCCN for me in that order, barring something truly outrageous like a Ruby at Chicago versus $0 at Harvard. If I had to count it numerically, I might say:

I MIGHT choose CC over HYS if they gave me full rides and HYS gave me nothing.

I WOULD choose N over CC if N gave me 50K more than CC.

I WOULD choose a lower T14 over N is they gave me a full ride and N gave me nothing. I would NOT choose a lower T14 over HYSCC for anything.

This is just me. You're free to do otherwise. There's no wrong choice here...all of these are great schools...It's like choosing between a Bentley and a Maserati.


This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


How can this be helpful? Do you even have any acceptances yet? You're putting the cart before the horse here. Worry about this problem when you actually have this problem.


+1

No one can give you blanket rules about what is worth it, and there is no point discussing hypotheticals before anyone has any actual acceptances. When you see what your options are, then you weigh all relevant factors and come to your own personal decision of what is "worth it". And we would be happy to help. But any info being thrown around right now is essentially useless.

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:16 pm

Curious1 wrote:

This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


If I had to quantify I would say N is worth 100K more to me than lower T14s. So if lower T14 gave me 200K and NYU gave me 100K, I'd still NYU.


I'd maybe take N over Cornell at $100K more. Are you saying over MVP as well? I don't think N is worth that much over MVP.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:16 pm

Curious1 wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:
Wtf are you talking about? You honestly have emotional issues. I criticized the 2L who first answered me precisely BECAUSE he didn't give me any advice.


How was the bolded statement constructive in any way? Were you raised by chimpanzees?


Says the man defending a 2L's sarcastic/non-constructive comment?


You're the one trying to get help. The onus is on you not to be an ass.


True...until someone who does not want to help is nonetheless an ass to you...

03121202698008
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:17 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:
Curious1 wrote:I'm not saying there aren't perfectly valid reasons to choose a lower T-14 over HYSCC, but the difference exists, and you would be blind to ignore it. What you end up choosing depends on how much money you have and how debt-averse you are.

I'm a bit of a prestige whore so it's HYSCCN for me in that order, barring something truly outrageous like a Ruby at Chicago versus $0 at Harvard. If I had to count it numerically, I might say:

I MIGHT choose CC over HYS if they gave me full rides and HYS gave me nothing.

I WOULD choose N over CC if N gave me 50K more than CC.

I WOULD choose a lower T14 over N is they gave me a full ride and N gave me nothing. I would NOT choose a lower T14 over HYSCC for anything.

This is just me. You're free to do otherwise. There's no wrong choice here...all of these are great schools...It's like choosing between a Bentley and a Maserati.


This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


How can this be helpful? Do you even have any acceptances yet? You're putting the cart before the horse here. Worry about this problem when you actually have this problem.


Jesus Christ...I get it...you hate me. Can you get the fuck out of the thread?


I don't hate you. If I did, I wouldn't have even tried to help. The bolded part is the kind of thing you need to learn not to say if you plan on being a lawyer.

Edit: And I would have in fact helped you with your question if there was any possible answer that you couldn't get from a magic 8-ball.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Curious1
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby Curious1 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:17 pm

blowhard wrote:
Curious1 wrote:

This sounds like it will be a really helpful guide moving forward.

What if N gave you something and lower T14s gave you near full-rides?


If I had to quantify I would say N is worth 100K more to me than lower T14s. So if lower T14 gave me 200K and NYU gave me 100K, I'd still NYU.


I'd maybe take N over Cornell at $100K more. Are you saying over MVP as well? I don't think N is worth that much over MVP.


OK I really haven't sat down and ranked each of the T14 in order by money...this is a general picture that can definitely change depending on how I feel the "fit" is and all that schmuck.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:22 pm

blowhard wrote:
I don't hate you. If I did, I wouldn't have even tried to help. The bolded part is the kind of thing you need to learn not to say if you plan on being a lawyer.


Lol you do realize you injected yourself into a non-argument that did not need to go beyond two posts.

When you think someone is asking a dumb question: ignore them, don't reply. Easily done on the internet.
When you think someone is asking a dumb question AND you choose to respond in an unhelpful/rude way: It's fair game for that person to be rude/unhelpful back to you.

Why would there be an "onus to be nice" to someone who is an ass to you?

In any event, this thread WAS helpful. Thank you.
Last edited by WhiteGuy5 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:23 pm

WhiteGuy5 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
I don't hate you. If I did, I wouldn't have even tried to help. The bolded part is the kind of thing you need to learn not to say if you plan on being a lawyer.


Lol you do realize you injected yourself into a non-argument that did not need to go beyond two posts.

When you think someone is asking a dumb question: ignore them, don't reply. Easily done on the internet.
When you think someone is asking a dumb question AND you choose to respond in an unhelpful/rude way: It's fair game for that person to be rude/unhelpful back to you.

Why would there be an "onus to be nice" to someone who is an ass to you.

In any event, this thread WAS helpful. Thank you.


I'm in the middle of a boring class. This thread was mildly entertaining. The bolded happens all the time in the real world.

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WhiteGuy5
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Re: T6 vs. Rest of T14

Postby WhiteGuy5 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:28 pm

blowhard wrote:
WhiteGuy5 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
I don't hate you. If I did, I wouldn't have even tried to help. The bolded part is the kind of thing you need to learn not to say if you plan on being a lawyer.


Lol you do realize you injected yourself into a non-argument that did not need to go beyond two posts.

When you think someone is asking a dumb question: ignore them, don't reply. Easily done on the internet.
When you think someone is asking a dumb question AND you choose to respond in an unhelpful/rude way: It's fair game for that person to be rude/unhelpful back to you.

Why would there be an "onus to be nice" to someone who is an ass to you.

In any event, this thread WAS helpful. Thank you.


I'm in the middle of a boring class. This thread was mildly entertaining. The bolded happens all the time in the real world.


Agreed.

Also, I think hypotheticals DO help because in the process you're trying to figure out what is important to consider as you go through the cycle. It's precisely because so much of it is vague/uncertain that you need to have this debate. It helps when thinking about where to apply/why/how vigorously to pursue certain schools/etc.




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