Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

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American_in_China
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Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:24 pm

I've got a low GPA (3.2-3.3) and a 172+ LSAT, so this seems to be my range of options. I've got a lot of contacts in my hometown, so if I finish top 25% at WuSTL or top 50% at Michigan I'm pretty much assured of a job in big law there (secondary market, so 120K a year).

But, assuming I wanted to do clerkship to appellate law route, is the chance so much higher at MIchigan I should go there (or UVA)? Or should I take the safe route and just go to Wash U at half price?

shoeshine
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby shoeshine » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:25 pm

American_in_China wrote:I've got a low GPA (3.2-3.3) and a 172+ LSAT, so this seems to be my range of options. I've got a lot of contacts in my hometown, so if I finish top 25% at WuSTL or top 50% at Michigan I'm pretty much assured of a job in big law there (secondary market, so 120K a year).

But, assuming I wanted to do clerkship to appellate law route, is the chance so much higher at MIchigan I should go there (or UVA)? Or should I take the safe route and just go to Wash U at half price?

Why don't you ask this question when these two things actually become real options for you? There is no point in asking this question till you know that you for sure got in and how much if any scholarship money you got.

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Pato_09
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Pato_09 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:38 pm

Michigan

Seneca
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Seneca » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:45 pm

shoeshine wrote:
American_in_China wrote:I've got a low GPA (3.2-3.3) and a 172+ LSAT, so this seems to be my range of options. I've got a lot of contacts in my hometown, so if I finish top 25% at WuSTL or top 50% at Michigan I'm pretty much assured of a job in big law there (secondary market, so 120K a year).

But, assuming I wanted to do clerkship to appellate law route, is the chance so much higher at MIchigan I should go there (or UVA)? Or should I take the safe route and just go to Wash U at half price?

Why don't you ask this question when these two things actually become real options for you? There is no point in asking this question till you know that you for sure got in and how much if any scholarship money you got.


A_i_C, I'm in a very similar boat with the GPA/LSAT and even the secondary market thing. While I agree with shoeshine that it's generally pointless to start these kinds of threads without information in the hand, I also get that you may just be trying to figure out your options to decide where/if to ED, especially since that's pretty much the only chance applicants with our numbers have at Michigan or UVA (at least UVA, for sure).

First, there's no guarantee of a scholarship at WUSTL (though I'd agree it looks good), and there's absolutely no guarantee of placement in the top 25% of any law school class, or of biglaw employment. When you're evaluating your options, assume median. IMO, median at MVP looks a lot more promising than median at any lower ranked school, including WUSTL, especially if you're looking to keep your options open for clerkships, etc. What you decide to do obviously depends on your debt aversion, but I'd advise to shoot for M or V (full disclosure: I ED'd to UVA, largely based on this logic). If you greatly prefer Michigan to Virginia for whatever reason, go for Michigan. Otherwise, if you're just looking for the best school you can rankings-wise, consider ED to UVA > ED to Michigan > ED to GULC (although you may want to revisit the WUSTL situation vs. GULC, depending on your situation). Definitely worth throwing out an app to WUSTL, but consider your chances at some T14 schools as well.

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thelawyler
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby thelawyler » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:51 pm

Michigan unless you really like and want St Louis.

crazyblink653
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby crazyblink653 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:54 pm

Michigan. not even close. just peruse some of the job threads from this year. it seems like WUSTL students did not fare well, even those in the top quarter of the class.

that said, Michigan isn't a sure thing in terms of job prospects either. you'd still need medianish and good interviewing skills.

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buckilaw
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby buckilaw » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:57 pm

Michigan gives you access to legal markets other than St. Louis - most importantly NYC - and better clerkship opportunities. If you are median at WUSTL getting a job will be tough. If you are median at Michigan there is a decent chance you could land a big law job in NYC or your home market; but median at Michigan doesn't necessarily guarantee a big law job.

More importantly, Michigan is doing fairly well this year with Brady Hoke.

Michigan.

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:59 pm

shoeshine wrote:
American_in_China wrote:I've got a low GPA (3.2-3.3) and a 172+ LSAT, so this seems to be my range of options. I've got a lot of contacts in my hometown, so if I finish top 25% at WuSTL or top 50% at Michigan I'm pretty much assured of a job in big law there (secondary market, so 120K a year).

But, assuming I wanted to do clerkship to appellate law route, is the chance so much higher at MIchigan I should go there (or UVA)? Or should I take the safe route and just go to Wash U at half price?

Why don't you ask this question when these two things actually become real options for you? There is no point in asking this question till you know that you for sure got in and how much if any scholarship money you got.


How bout you stop being a tool? Its a hypothetical, dick.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:00 pm

American_in_China wrote:
shoeshine wrote:
American_in_China wrote:I've got a low GPA (3.2-3.3) and a 172+ LSAT, so this seems to be my range of options. I've got a lot of contacts in my hometown, so if I finish top 25% at WuSTL or top 50% at Michigan I'm pretty much assured of a job in big law there (secondary market, so 120K a year).

But, assuming I wanted to do clerkship to appellate law route, is the chance so much higher at MIchigan I should go there (or UVA)? Or should I take the safe route and just go to Wash U at half price?

Why don't you ask this question when these two things actually become real options for you? There is no point in asking this question till you know that you for sure got in and how much if any scholarship money you got.


How bout you stop being a tool? Its a hypothetical, dick.


No, he's right. This is a really retarded thread.

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:20 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
American_in_China wrote:
shoeshine wrote:
American_in_China wrote:I've got a low GPA (3.2-3.3) and a 172+ LSAT, so this seems to be my range of options. I've got a lot of contacts in my hometown, so if I finish top 25% at WuSTL or top 50% at Michigan I'm pretty much assured of a job in big law there (secondary market, so 120K a year).

But, assuming I wanted to do clerkship to appellate law route, is the chance so much higher at MIchigan I should go there (or UVA)? Or should I take the safe route and just go to Wash U at half price?

Why don't you ask this question when these two things actually become real options for you? There is no point in asking this question till you know that you for sure got in and how much if any scholarship money you got.


How bout you stop being a tool? Its a hypothetical, dick.


No, he's right. This is a really retarded thread.


Really? Because I'm trying to decide whether or not to ED to MIchigan, thus automatically accepting it at sticker, or to just not ED, at which point its probably going to be Wash U, based on their past three years of admissions decisions.

So for me, this has practical application. That's why I asked. If you think the thread is stupid, GO AWAY. You don't have to respond.

And thanks to all the people who did respond, with actual thought. Because committing three years of my life and over $150,000 is rather important, and I'd like to get the advice of people who are doing/have done the same thing.

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:27 pm

buckilaw wrote:Michigan gives you access to legal markets other than St. Louis - most importantly NYC - and better clerkship opportunities. If you are median at WUSTL getting a job will be tough. If you are median at Michigan there is a decent chance you could land a big law job in NYC or your home market; but median at Michigan doesn't necessarily guarantee a big law job.

More importantly, Michigan is doing fairly well this year with Brady Hoke.

Michigan.


I hate NYC and have no intention of going there. I'd gladly choose my home market over NYC. But I do love CHicago and DC, so those are the big two markets I'm looking at.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:28 pm

American_in_China wrote:Really? Because I'm trying to decide whether or not to ED to MIchigan, thus automatically accepting it at sticker, or to just not ED, at which point its probably going to be Wash U, based on their past three years of admissions decisions.


Not how you presented the question, bro. Don't know why you're so mad.

You should probably take up WashU on the scholarship they're going to give you. That way, you won't be in debt as much when you're an appellate lawyer in your secondary market after finishing top quarter in your class and are done COA clerking. Have fun.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:30 pm

American_in_China wrote:I hate NYC and have no intention of going there. I'd gladly choose my home market over NYC. But I do love CHicago and DC, so those are the big two markets I'm looking at.


Bad news: you're not getting a job anywhere. Ruling out NYC is one of the stupidest things pre-law-school people can do. Chicago and DC markets are ridiculous right now.

Enjoy LRAP.

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Pato_09
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Pato_09 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:33 pm

Ruling out NYC is one of the stupidest things pre-law-school people can do. Chicago and DC markets are ridiculous right now.

Very, Very True.

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:14 pm

Like I said, I have the advantage of going back to my home market. I'm aware its not an advantage many people have, but given my connections, I only need to be at median at Michigan to be sure of a job there. My home market weathered the recession very well, and has a very strong outlook.

So yes, I'm ruling out NYC. My question, before Helmholtz and co. decided to make this a thread about proving how big their e-peens are, is whether I'll have a decent shot at all of doing appellate work out of Wash U, or do I need to go higher in the rankings to do that.

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Pato_09
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Pato_09 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:22 pm

[quote I only need to be at median at Michigan to be sure of a job there [/quote]

There is a thread right now where a 3L kid with top 10% at CCN does not have a job. So, no, even with your connections, nothing is certain.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:25 pm

American_in_China wrote:So yes, I'm ruling out NYC. My question, before Helmholtz and co. decided to make this a thread about proving how big their e-peens are, is whether I'll have a decent shot at all of doing appellate work out of Wash U, or do I need to go higher in the rankings to do that.


Do you even know what appellate lawyers do and how generally people break into that type of work?

So you have connections that will take you if you're median at Michigan, but only top quarter at WUSTL? Is this a "we like you, but not love you" type of thing?

This is a really retarded thread.

Enjoy LRAP.


edit: also I cannot stop chuckling about somebody asking what the chances are of being an appellate lawyer out of WUSTL

Oh yah, and enjoy being an appellate lawyer at a firm in a secondary market where pay is $120k

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:48 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
American_in_China wrote:So yes, I'm ruling out NYC. My question, before Helmholtz and co. decided to make this a thread about proving how big their e-peens are, is whether I'll have a decent shot at all of doing appellate work out of Wash U, or do I need to go higher in the rankings to do that.


Do you even know what appellate lawyers do and how generally people break into that type of work?

So you have connections that will take you if you're median at Michigan, but only top quarter at WUSTL? Is this a "we like you, but not love you" type of thing?

This is a really retarded thread.

Enjoy LRAP.


edit: also I cannot stop chuckling about somebody asking what the chances are of being an appellate lawyer out of WUSTL

Oh yah, and enjoy being an appellate lawyer at a firm in a secondary market where pay is $120k


We get it Helm, you're packing 12 inches and you want the whollllllle world to know. Of course, 10,000 posts suggests you don't really have anything going on in real life and spend most of your time online trying to show off. I think 4chan is the place to do that. On TLS you're supposed to try and help people, that's kind of the point of the site.

I do know what appellate lawyers do, I do know how people break into that type of work, and COA clerkships are one path, one that is much harder to get at WuSTL. Coming in and being a dick when I'm asking for legitimate advice about whether someone at Wash U would stand a chance at the bigger firms in Chicago/other primary market that handle appeals work in house, or at a clerkship that can lead to working in a specialized firm that handles appeals, is the worst kind of douchebaggery.

Oh and fyi, I'd be doing litigation work in my home market. Not appellate work. I'm just more interested in appellate work, which is why I'm not just going to go to school in my home market. But since you're clearly a dbag, its not surprising that you just assumed things I didn't actually say.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:55 pm

American_in_China wrote:We get it Helm, you're packing 12 inches and you want the whollllllle world to know. Of course, 10,000 posts suggests you don't really have anything going on in real life and spend most of your time online trying to show off. I think 4chan is the place to do that. On TLS you're supposed to try and help people, that's kind of the point of the site.

I do know what appellate lawyers do, I do know how people break into that type of work, and COA clerkships are one path, one that is much harder to get at WuSTL. Coming in and being a dick when I'm asking for legitimate advice about whether someone at Wash U would stand a chance at the bigger firms in Chicago/other primary market that handle appeals work in house, or at a clerkship that can lead to working in a specialized firm that handles appeals, is the worst kind of douchebaggery.

Oh and fyi, I'd be doing litigation work in my home market. Not appellate work. I'm just more interested in appellate work, which is why I'm not just going to go to school in my home market. But since you're clearly a dbag, its not surprising that you just assumed things I didn't actually say.


We never got to why you're so mad, bro. Why so mad?

WashU sucks at COA clerkships and placement into Chicago. Don't go there. Problem solved. WashU at half price is sure as hell no safe bet in anybody's book. It's embarrassing how little research that would have taken on your part to unravel that great mystery.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:20 am

Be careful with Helmy. He can get oh so nasty. A couple more posts and he'll be breaking out with the mouth rape routine.

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:03 am

Fark-o-vision wrote:Be careful with Helmy. He can get oh so nasty. A couple more posts and he'll be breaking out with the mouth rape routine.


Haha. It's fun to make fun of internet dbags. Good bet is they have no life so they have to troll people online to make themselves feel better. Apparently I'm mad, but of course he's the one who keeps posting in a thread that I made to ask for people's opinion, solely to annoy me and contribute nothing, lol.

He's just angry I decided to point this out to him. So of course he retreated to the adolescent "why you mad bro" line. So cute. It's like arguing with my cousin.

Lesson for Helm: Don't come into threads just to be a dick to the OP. Sometimes the OP might point out that you're a jerk.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:29 am

1) Make sure people with your stats aren't sometimes getting money from MVP. I know they were when I was applying. Helm actually got money from Michigan with similar stats. If its seems not likely to happen based on the last two cycles I don't think there's anything wrong with ED either to UVA or Michigan.
2) Michigan at sticker is a better option than WUSTL at half cost. The harder call would be full ride versus little to no $ at michigan.
3) Being an appellate lawyer is somewhat of a pipe dream, especially [to] start your career. Nothing wrong with having pipe dreams, but I would plan out other options.
4) D.C. and Chicago have been bloodbaths this past year. I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to go to NYC, but I would make sure to have a few markets you want to be besides Chicago and D.C. If your plan is to apply to Chicago, D.C. and your secondary market, you are setting yourself up for failure.

You mentioned in your first post that WUSTL with $$ would be the safer bet...I think UVA or Michigan is the safer bet when it comes to getting biglaw. WUSTL would actually be the gamble. Just check out some some OCI threads with WUSTL people in it. (I think the midwest OCI results thread is a good place to start.)
Last edited by Richie Tenenbaum on Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

American_in_China
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby American_in_China » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:41 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:1) Make sure people with your stats aren't sometimes getting money from MVP. I know they were when I was applying. Helm actually got money from Michigan with similar stats. If its seems not likely to happen based on the last two cycles I don't think there's anything wrong with ED either to UVA or Michigan.
2) Michigan at sticker is a better option than WUSTL at half cost. The harder call would be full ride versus little to no $ at michigan.
3) Being an appellate lawyer is somewhat of a pipe dream, especially start your career. Nothing wrong with having pipe dreams, but I would plan out other options.
4) D.C. and Chicago have been bloodbaths this past year. I don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting to go to NYC, but I would make sure to have a few markets you want to be besides Chicago and D.C. If your plan is to apply to Chicago, D.C. and your secondary market, you are setting yourself up for failure.

You mentioned in your first post that WUSTL with $$ would be the safer bet...I think UVA or Michigan is the safer bet when it comes to getting biglaw. WUSTL would actually be the gamble. Just check out some some OCI threads with WUSTL people in it. (I think the midwest OCI results thread is a good place to start.)


Thank you for being helpful.

AriGoldButNicer
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:50 am

Michigan. Not close even if you're debt adverse. ~ a 60% shot at big law is worth way more than double of ~ a 25% shot.

TheFactor
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Re: Wash U at half ride or Michigan at Sticker?

Postby TheFactor » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:48 am

I could have sworn someone mentioned something about getting a COA clerkship out of WashU.

Also, LOL at doing appellate lit right out of lawl school.




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