Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

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rickfox
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Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby rickfox » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:46 pm

I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

BlueDiamond
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:47 pm

a brain

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:48 pm

rickfox wrote:I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

give it a coupe years, but yeah, the line is probably in the wrong place

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kwais
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby kwais » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:49 pm

because tight pants are actually a small but important part of rankings

AriGoldButNicer
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:49 pm

rickfox wrote:I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

NLJ is not the whole ranking system. There's also numbers, and YP where NYU is closer to Columbia than Duke is to NYU. NYU's been over Chicago as recent as 2008 on USNews. The difference b/w NYU and Penn is small, however.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:51 pm

AriGoldButNicer wrote:
rickfox wrote:I'm a 0L with no reason to flame a school, and I love NYU. I'm just wondering why NYU is grouped with Chicago and Columbia on this forum, even though the most recent NLJ 250 statistics make it look like it places closer to Michigan than CC into large firms. Am I missing something?

NLJ is not the whole ranking system. There's also numbers, and YP where NYU is closer to Columbia than Duke is to NYU. NYU's been over Chicago as recent as 2008 on USNews. The difference b/w NYU and Penn is small, however.

I may be reading this wrong, but what does Duke have to do with your point?

showNprove
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby showNprove » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:57 pm

Because the U.S. News formula resulted in NYU being ranked above Chicago for a number of years. That's pretty much it.

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bk1
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:13 pm

There are NLJ rankings for more than one year.

I know. I was surprised to hear it too.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:36 pm

I don't know too much about how to read employment stats, but shouldn't the tendency of PI-track people to choose NYU and biglawl-track people to choose C/C explain at least a little bit of the discrepancy?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:42 pm

NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89

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Helmholtz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:43 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:I don't know too much about how to read employment stats, but shouldn't the tendency of PI-track people to choose NYU and biglawl-track people to choose C/C explain at least a little bit of the discrepancy?


NYU's public interest self-selection I think is way overblown. You'll notice that public-interest "self-selection" at NYU started blowing up in numbers when people were having a hard time getting jobs at firms (Class of 2009 at NYU had 10% of people spend their summer in public interest or government. That number for Class of 2011? Nearly 40%).

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby crumpetsandtea » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:44 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:I don't know too much about how to read employment stats, but shouldn't the tendency of PI-track people to choose NYU and biglawl-track people to choose C/C explain at least a little bit of the discrepancy?


NYU's public interest self-selection I think is way overblown. You'll notice that public-interest "self-selection" at NYU started blowing up in numbers when people were having a hard time getting jobs at firms.

Ahh, okay. Like I said, bit of a n00b with this whole 'knowing the intricacies of the legal job market' thing :mrgreen:

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bk1
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:54 pm

Helmholtz wrote:NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89


I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't the case, just pointing out the absurdity of doing rankings on a 1 year basis.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the TLS conventional wisdom on grouping CCN together that pre-ITE they (including NYU) placed better into the more prestigious NYC firms than did the lower T14's?

Magnificent
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Magnificent » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:58 pm

its only applies to NYC firms

NYU is not considered any better than the rest of the T14's outside NYC. Several uber-prestigious non-NYC firms recruit only in HYSCC like Williams & Connolly and Susman Godfrey.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:59 pm

bk1 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89


I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't the case, just pointing out the absurdity of doing rankings on a 1 year basis.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the TLS conventional wisdom on grouping CCN together that pre-ITE they (including NYU) placed better into the more prestigious NYC firms than did the lower T14's?


Yeah, I mean, I personally think there is a gap between CC and N, but also a gap between N and the lower schools.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

Granted, that's only one year. Also, Kirkland was not a V10 in 2006—that would have put a pretty big hit on Chicago's numbers since so many people at U of C choose Kirkland over a V10 firm (indeed, it does not take too long to find somebody at UChi who turned down Wachtell, Cravath, or SullCrom for Kirkland-Chicago; probably can't say the same thing for Columbia).

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... rk-ny.html

That probably does a good job of explaining why UChicago had significantly lower numbers than CLS for NYC-heavy V10s that year.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:01 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:NLJ250 for C/Os 2007–10
Columbia: 63.73
Chicago: 63.44
NYU: 57.89


I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't the case, just pointing out the absurdity of doing rankings on a 1 year basis.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the TLS conventional wisdom on grouping CCN together that pre-ITE they (including NYU) placed better into the more prestigious NYC firms than did the lower T14's?


Yeah, I mean, I personally think there is a gap between CC and N, but also a gap between N and the lower schools.


+1

bdubs
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby bdubs » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:01 pm

Magnificent wrote:its only applies to NYC firms

NYU is not considered any better than the rest of the T14's outside NYC. Several uber-prestigious non-NYC firms recruit only in HYSCC like Williams & Connolly and Susman Godfrey.


Lol, what are you talking about?

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Grizz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Grizz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:03 pm

I smell ass burgers

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Helmholtz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:04 pm

Grizz wrote:I smell ass burgers


Image

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bk1
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:13 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Yeah, I mean, I personally think there is a gap between CC and N, but also a gap between N and the lower schools.


Makes sense.

HeavenWood
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:31 pm

There isn't a huge gap between MVP and NYU, but it's still big enough to justify the separation in mini-tiers. Let's put it this way: MVP + $$ (especially P, given its NYC placement) > NYU sticker

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Grizz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Grizz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:33 pm

HeavenWood wrote:There isn't a huge gap between MVP and NYU, but it's still big enough to justify the separation in mini-tiers. Let's put it this way: MVP + $$ (especially P, given its NYC placement) > NYU sticker

Every time I hear you talk about P I picture you and Veyron having a j/o sesh together

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Wholigan
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby Wholigan » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:33 pm

Magnificent wrote:its only applies to NYC firms

NYU is not considered any better than the rest of the T14's outside NYC. Several uber-prestigious non-NYC firms recruit only in HYSCC like Williams & Connolly and Susman Godfrey.


W&C does not only recruit at HYSCC. There are currently more associates at the firm from both Penn and Michigan than from either of Chicago and Columbia. And there are more from UVA than all of the above schools combined.

HeavenWood
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:37 pm

Grizz wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:There isn't a huge gap between MVP and NYU, but it's still big enough to justify the separation in mini-tiers. Let's put it this way: MVP + $$ (especially P, given its NYC placement) > NYU sticker

Every time I hear you talk about P I picture you and Veyron having a j/o sesh together

lol I think my statement is reasonable. P has an edge over MV in NYC placement (just as M is better for Chicago and V better for DC). In an overall sense, I'd say all three are equally good.

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writofmySchwanz
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Re: Why is it CCN and not NMVPB? (not flame)

Postby writofmySchwanz » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:49 pm

I think columbia is going to fall behind UVA




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