UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

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sundevil77
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby sundevil77 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:37 pm

hangtransferloose wrote:FWIW I know three people that transferred out of UA/ASU to t14 in order to improve their chances of obtaining a job in PHX (and beyond if need be). In fact, several lawyers they spoke with that work at larger firms in AZ suggested as much.

I guess what I'm saying is going to UA/ASU at a discount and then transferring is a possibility. Risky indeed, but, if you do well you'll have the best of both worlds.


If you're making a transfer like that, chances are the point is moot. You need top 10% with law review for a T14 transfer. Those same credentials will likely land you the job for which you transferred in the first place.

And desertlaw is correct, none of this is new. This will always and forever be the tradeoff: ASU/UA = lower cost, need to finish higher in class, fewer alternative options (i.e. no market salary) if you don't finish in top 10%. T14 = higher cost, more prestige, only need top 50%, more alternative options if Phoenix doesn't work out.

That is it. That is all anyone needs to know on this topic. Either option can work out, it just depends on the person. The end.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby desertlaw » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:44 pm

I would add my last 2 cents that living in a different place for 3 years is good for your social, soul, and life experience. I grew up in Phoenix, did ASU undergrad, and was ready for a change, even though I knew that coming back to Phoenix was a real possibility after law school.

But if you grew up in Phoenix, went somewhere else for college and miss wearing flip-flops in February at the WM Open while you try to find cougars in Scottsdale, I can't blame you for wanting to have that during law school.

hangtransferloose
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby hangtransferloose » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:16 pm

desertlaw wrote: miss wearing flip-flops in February at the WM Open while you try to find cougars in Scottsdale


Guilty as charged. I would not miss the 16th and the Greenskeeper Tent for the world.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby desertlaw » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:41 pm

hangtransferloose wrote:
desertlaw wrote: miss wearing flip-flops in February at the WM Open while you try to find cougars in Scottsdale


Guilty as charged. I would not miss the 16th and the Greenskeeper Tent for the world.


Can't tell if you're serious or not ---- but if you were serious, I'm not here to judge. It's a good scene.

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Veyron
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby Veyron » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:52 pm

desertlaw wrote:
hangtransferloose wrote:
desertlaw wrote: miss wearing flip-flops in February at the WM Open while you try to find cougars in Scottsdale


Guilty as charged. I would not miss the 16th and the Greenskeeper Tent for the world.


Can't tell if you're serious or not ---- but if you were serious, I'm not here to judge. It's a good scene.


No judging happening here.

desertlaw
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby desertlaw » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:02 am

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=164365&start=175

So it's obviously still very difficult for UA/ASU students, even with great grades.

barneytrouble
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby barneytrouble » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:40 am

Veyron wrote:
desertlaw wrote:Good points, but it should all go back to OP's question and that's why UVa would be a better choice. If you want to get into the Phoenix market, you could go to ASU and have to do top 10%. Or you could go to UVa and do top quarterish.

If you end up not doing that well at ASU, your entry to Phoenix BigLaw is damn near impossible, right? But if you end up not doing that well at UVa, you can still get to NYC (assuming you are just above median, can interview well, etc). That will eventually be better to get you into the Phoenix market than leaving ASU with no job, right?

I'm not saying that Skadden to Snell (or Fried Frank to Fennemore OR Paul Weiss to Perkins Coie if that is your fancy) is the best way to get to Snell/Fennemore/Perkins, but I'm saying it's probably more possible than at ASU without a job.


Well that's a reasonable point. However, if you can get into UVA you can probably do ASU for free or nearly free - in which case you can make just as much as a guy at Snell paying off 220k in debt even if you land a job that pays much less. I'm on the fence about whether I should have done this myself.

Remember:

115 - 30k (loans) = 85 - 37k (state and federal taxes on 115) = 57k


This math doesn't add up.

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Veyron
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Re: UVA vs ASU for Phoenix law market

Postby Veyron » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:25 pm

barneytrouble wrote:
Veyron wrote:
desertlaw wrote:Good points, but it should all go back to OP's question and that's why UVa would be a better choice. If you want to get into the Phoenix market, you could go to ASU and have to do top 10%. Or you could go to UVa and do top quarterish.

If you end up not doing that well at ASU, your entry to Phoenix BigLaw is damn near impossible, right? But if you end up not doing that well at UVa, you can still get to NYC (assuming you are just above median, can interview well, etc). That will eventually be better to get you into the Phoenix market than leaving ASU with no job, right?

I'm not saying that Skadden to Snell (or Fried Frank to Fennemore OR Paul Weiss to Perkins Coie if that is your fancy) is the best way to get to Snell/Fennemore/Perkins, but I'm saying it's probably more possible than at ASU without a job.


Well that's a reasonable point. However, if you can get into UVA you can probably do ASU for free or nearly free - in which case you can make just as much as a guy at Snell paying off 220k in debt even if you land a job that pays much less. I'm on the fence about whether I should have done this myself.

Remember:

115 - 30k (loans) = 85 - 37k (state and federal taxes on 115) = 57k


This math doesn't add up.


48k. Damnit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a mathematician.




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