Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

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freestallion
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Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:43 pm

Hi guys. So my stats are 173/3.8 (previously I have a 167 though...) and I want to do public interest work. NYU has been my dream school for this reason and I want to stay in NYC area long run and for the next 3 years because of family/SO reasons. I am also interested in CLS if I can get in.

But Northwestern's ED scholly is tempting me now. For public interest, in NYC or east coast ideally, what is better? Northwestern for free v. NYU/CLS for sticker price??

Do i have any shot at schollys in CLS, NYU, U Penn or Georgetown? Should I just try to go for the full ride because it is a good idea for public interest? Or take a chance and see where I get in and what scholarships I receive? I am applying for NYU's public interest scholarships but knowing they are so competitive, I don't know if I have any shot at those. Do any other east coast schools have scholarships for public interest?

I am so confused now... and am getting really nervous about the huge cost of a school like NYU/CLS if I end up with a very low salary. However, I really am not so keen on the idea of being tied to Northwestern, if I get something better. Thanks for any thoughts!

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soj
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby soj » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:16 pm

freestallion wrote:Do i have any shot at schollys in CLS, NYU, U Penn or Georgetown? Should I just try to go for the full ride because it is a good idea for public interest? Or take a chance and see where I get in and what scholarships I receive? I am applying for NYU's public interest scholarships but knowing they are so competitive, I don't know if I have any shot at those. Do any other east coast schools have scholarships for public interest?

Yes, you're competitive for $ at CCN.

Have you looked into each school's LRAP program? Most PI jobs should qualify for LRAP, which could mitigate the risks of sticker debt. Also ask yourself if there's any chance you might switch over to Biglaw; many prospective PI students do at every school.

freestallion
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:36 pm

Thanks, I think I may just apply and see if I get any scholarships from NYU, CLS, Penn or Georgetown. I have looked into the LRAP programs but it's honestly hard to understand all the details. I suppose I should spend more time researching those. I think I am afraid that even going to NYU/CLS, I may find a job I like but which may not fit into the LRAP program. Then I would be screwed. But I'm going to see how flexible these programs are.

I really don't want to do biglaw.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:47 pm

I agree with Soj. If you are dead-set on PI, LRAP benefits matter more than cost.

Do you have decent work experience? If so, you'd be a contender for a huge scholarship from Northwestern even without an ED app.

freestallion
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:59 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Do you have decent work experience? If so, you'd be a contender for a huge scholarship from Northwestern even without an ED app.


Yeah, I will have 2 years of work experience by next fall. It's nothing spectacular but decent experience.

I thought because of the ED scholarship there would be very little scholarships left for RD applicants. But maybe not.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:07 pm

freestallion wrote:I thought because of the ED scholarship there would be very little scholarships left for RD applicants. But maybe not.


I guess this is the first year of the program, so we can't be too sure. Median protectors like you always cash in somewhere though.

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ahduth
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby ahduth » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:26 pm

I thought people with those numbers got the RTK, I could be wrong though. Either way there's a trillion PI things going on at NYU seemingly. Kinda makes me want to go out and strangle some cute, fuzzy animal.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:33 pm

ahduth wrote:I thought people with those numbers got the RTK, I could be wrong though. Either way there's a trillion PI things going on at NYU seemingly. Kinda makes me want to go out and strangle some cute, fuzzy animal.

Disclaimer: ANECDOTAL ADVICE.

But I know someone who was 173/3.7-3.8 and got the RTK, so yeah FS I think you're in RTK territory, assuming you write a good essay or whatever they require & have a history of PI involvement.

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Grizz
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Grizz » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:40 pm

freestallion wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Do you have decent work experience? If so, you'd be a contender for a huge scholarship from Northwestern even without an ED app.


Yeah, I will have 2 years of work experience by next fall. It's nothing spectacular but decent experience.

I thought because of the ED scholarship there would be very little scholarships left for RD applicants. But maybe not.

Why would schools reward ED applicants with tons of cash? Those applicants are contractually bound to attend if accepted.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:43 pm

Grizz wrote:
freestallion wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Do you have decent work experience? If so, you'd be a contender for a huge scholarship from Northwestern even without an ED app.


Yeah, I will have 2 years of work experience by next fall. It's nothing spectacular but decent experience.

I thought because of the ED scholarship there would be very little scholarships left for RD applicants. But maybe not.

Why would schools reward ED applicants with tons of cash? Those applicants are contractually bound to attend if accepted.


To lock in top people. GWU has been doing it for a while, now BU and Northwestern are adopting the policy for this cycle.

freestallion
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:54 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
ahduth wrote:I thought people with those numbers got the RTK, I could be wrong though. Either way there's a trillion PI things going on at NYU seemingly. Kinda makes me want to go out and strangle some cute, fuzzy animal.

Disclaimer: ANECDOTAL ADVICE.

But I know someone who was 173/3.7-3.8 and got the RTK, so yeah FS I think you're in RTK territory, assuming you write a good essay or whatever they require & have a history of PI involvement.


Wow, that's great news. I think my essay is pretty good though that's just my opinion. And I have a lot of PI experience over the years. I guess I won't apply ED anywhere, because I want to see if I stand a chance at RTK or similar fellowships. That would honestly be my dream.

Thanks guys!

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Grizz
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Grizz » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:56 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Grizz wrote:
freestallion wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Do you have decent work experience? If so, you'd be a contender for a huge scholarship from Northwestern even without an ED app.


Yeah, I will have 2 years of work experience by next fall. It's nothing spectacular but decent experience.

I thought because of the ED scholarship there would be very little scholarships left for RD applicants. But maybe not.

Why would schools reward ED applicants with tons of cash? Those applicants are contractually bound to attend if accepted.


To lock in top people. GWU has been doing it for a while, now BU and Northwestern are adopting the policy for this cycle.

Not being an applicant, did not hear about that. Thanks for the heads up.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:59 pm

freestallion wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Disclaimer: ANECDOTAL ADVICE.

But I know someone who was 173/3.7-3.8 and got the RTK, so yeah FS I think you're in RTK territory, assuming you write a good essay or whatever they require & have a history of PI involvement.

Wow, that's great news. I think my essay is pretty good though that's just my opinion. And I have a lot of PI experience over the years. I guess I won't apply ED anywhere, because I want to see if I stand a chance at RTK or similar fellowships. That would honestly be my dream.

Thanks guys!

^_^!!! Glad I could help keep the hope alive. I hope you end up getting the RTK <3

freestallion
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:26 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
freestallion wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:Disclaimer: ANECDOTAL ADVICE.

But I know someone who was 173/3.7-3.8 and got the RTK, so yeah FS I think you're in RTK territory, assuming you write a good essay or whatever they require & have a history of PI involvement.

Wow, that's great news. I think my essay is pretty good though that's just my opinion. And I have a lot of PI experience over the years. I guess I won't apply ED anywhere, because I want to see if I stand a chance at RTK or similar fellowships. That would honestly be my dream.

Thanks guys!

^_^!!! Glad I could help keep the hope alive. I hope you end up getting the RTK <3


Thank you so much for the positivity crumpets :mrgreen:

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:13 pm

NYU student here.

If your long term goal is to do public interest work in NYC, I really, really encourage you to come to NYU. The PI network within NYC and the programming at the school is really top notch; I might even say unparalleled. (Though there are many CLS supporters of Columbia's PI opportunities, I have personally heard complaints, and think NYU is clearly the NYC school for PI.) If you are really certain about PI and do it for ten years, you will likely pay little to nothing back on your loans anyway under LRAP. The upfront cost is fairly irrelevant in those circumstances.

Unless things have changed, though, you are almost a lock to get into NYU (especially if you have a good PI-oriented essay and background) and so no need to ED.

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby booasa » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:20 pm

If you are willing to live in Chicago I would suggest you apply to U of Chicago. The Rubenstein scholarship money has in turned freed up other money for students. With your numbers I would not be surprised if you ended up with as much or more there than you are likely to get at NYU and certainly more than you are likely to get at CLS. Good luck

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:58 pm

Since you said your dream school was NYU, I'm going to troll a little bit for it. Though as a disclaimer, I'm not in any way saying that it's a better school than Columbia or Chicago--just explaining why you should apply if it's your dream.

In my experience, the previous LSAT score won't matter significantly for these schools. They really just don't seem to care below HYS.

You have a decent shot at all three with your numbers; Columbia will be slightly iffy. In terms of the RTK, your numbers will matter to NYU for getting into the school. Once you are in the school, your numbers essentially do not matter for the RTK. They will look at your PI background and how good of a candidate you are. It is very competitive in that way. So definitely work on that aspect of your application materials.

If you want to do PI, NYU is a great school for it as it has a lot of institutional support that some schools have been lacking up to now. Both Columbia and Chicago are developing their resources so they are getting better, but NYU still seems to lead in this area.

Further, if you are certain that you want to do PI, with the way NYU's LRAP is set up at this point, if you follow their guidelines, you will not have to pay back any of your loans. NYU will send you a check each month to cover them. This assumes you pay your minimum student contribution, stay in PI for 10 years, make under 80k in your job after law school, and the federal government's IBR program still works that long. It's a pretty good program, so check it out. Even if IBR or loan forgiveness goes down, NYU seems pretty committed to keeping this kind of program running.

Hope that all helps.

P.S. I wouldn't ED anywhere if it were me. Don't think you need it. And I second Crumps' post.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:51 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:And I second Crumps' post.

:oops: :lol: <3

freestallion
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:40 pm

lzyovrachievr wrote:You have a decent shot at all three with your numbers; Columbia will be slightly iffy. In terms of the RTK, your numbers will matter to NYU for getting into the school. Once you are in the school, your numbers essentially do not matter for the RTK. They will look at your PI background and how good of a candidate you are. It is very competitive in that way. So definitely work on that aspect of your application materials.

If you want to do PI, NYU is a great school for it as it has a lot of institutional support that some schools have been lacking up to now. Both Columbia and Chicago are developing their resources so they are getting better, but NYU still seems to lead in this area.

Further, if you are certain that you want to do PI, with the way NYU's LRAP is set up at this point, if you follow their guidelines, you will not have to pay back any of your loans. NYU will send you a check each month to cover them. This assumes you pay your minimum student contribution, stay in PI for 10 years, make under 80k in your job after law school, and the federal government's IBR program still works that long. It's a pretty good program, so check it out. Even if IBR or loan forgiveness goes down, NYU seems pretty committed to keeping this kind of program running.


Thank you so much, your detailed post was really helpful to me. I did not know that about the RTK -- it is good to know that once you are in, they mainly look at your PI background. Still, I don't know if I am qualified enough for it, but I think I should give it a shot at the very least! Also thank you for the information about the LRAP program. :mrgreen:

Also booasa, I am applying to U Chicago because I got a fee waiver but I don't know if I want to live in Chicago as my family and SO are going to be on the east coast. Honestly I am tired of long distance. Also I heard U Chicago is not very supportive of public interest but I will apply anyway and it may be a good option if I do get some money, as you said! Thanks!!

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ahduth
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby ahduth » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:17 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:NYU student here.

If your long term goal is to do public interest work in NYC, I really, really encourage you to come to NYU. The PI network within NYC and the programming at the school is really top notch; I might even say unparalleled. (Though there are many CLS supporters of Columbia's PI opportunities, I have personally heard complaints, and think NYU is clearly the NYC school for PI.) If you are really certain about PI and do it for ten years, you will likely pay little to nothing back on your loans anyway under LRAP. The upfront cost is fairly irrelevant in those circumstances.

Unless things have changed, though, you are almost a lock to get into NYU (especially if you have a good PI-oriented essay and background) and so no need to ED.


CLS felt the need to lead their ASW with a specific "our PI program doesn't suck" presentation. The NYU people need to be beaten off with a stick. Or whatever forces people to stop emailing you. NYU seems to have an enormous support staff around their PI program.

I'd ignore Chicago too, they graduate single digit PI folks.

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:07 pm

ahduth wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:NYU student here.

If your long term goal is to do public interest work in NYC, I really, really encourage you to come to NYU. The PI network within NYC and the programming at the school is really top notch; I might even say unparalleled. (Though there are many CLS supporters of Columbia's PI opportunities, I have personally heard complaints, and think NYU is clearly the NYC school for PI.) If you are really certain about PI and do it for ten years, you will likely pay little to nothing back on your loans anyway under LRAP. The upfront cost is fairly irrelevant in those circumstances.

Unless things have changed, though, you are almost a lock to get into NYU (especially if you have a good PI-oriented essay and background) and so no need to ED.


CLS felt the need to lead their ASW with a specific "our PI program doesn't suck" presentation. The NYU people need to be beaten off with a stick. Or whatever forces people to stop emailing you. NYU seems to have an enormous support staff around their PI program.

I'd ignore Chicago too, they graduate single digit PI folks.

Yeah, no real reason to consider Chicago IMO. Their LRAP just went from laughable to first-class, so things might be changing, but institutional support and networking opportunities are really important for PI. If you go to NYU, you can count on having a major alumni presence in just about every major PI organization in NYC. And you can count on an office that is very proactive about encouraging people to pursue PI and getting them set up to do it. I like that I am at a school where I actually feel a little guilty for going to a firm; PILC's visibility keeps you honest. I think at CLS the pressure is likely the other way, toward going into private practice. Of course financial considerations and the allure of having a job of any kind locked up two years in advance do tend to turn the do-gooders, even at NYU.

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby freestallion » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:31 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Yeah, no real reason to consider Chicago IMO. Their LRAP just went from laughable to first-class, so things might be changing, but institutional support and networking opportunities are really important for PI. If you go to NYU, you can count on having a major alumni presence in just about every major PI organization in NYC. And you can count on an office that is very proactive about encouraging people to pursue PI and getting them set up to do it. I like that I am at a school where I actually feel a little guilty for going to a firm; PILC's visibility keeps you honest. I think at CLS the pressure is likely the other way, toward going into private practice. Of course financial considerations and the allure of having a job of any kind locked up two years in advance do tend to turn the do-gooders, even at NYU.


Yeah, I am not considering Chicago as much but figured I'd throw in an app since it's a top school.

And the bolded is what makes me really, really excited about the possibility of being at NYU :mrgreen: Thank you for the advice! If I get into CLS (I hope!) I am still considering it because of prestige and they also seem to have some really good programming in the area I am interested in, though I think NYU is still better. But I think what you said makes sense-- the institutional support really helps. If everyone is pushed into corporate law, it definitely makes it harder to maintain your passion for PI.

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby clintonius » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:21 pm

freestallion wrote:
lzyovrachievr wrote:You have a decent shot at all three with your numbers; Columbia will be slightly iffy. In terms of the RTK, your numbers will matter to NYU for getting into the school. Once you are in the school, your numbers essentially do not matter for the RTK. They will look at your PI background and how good of a candidate you are. It is very competitive in that way. So definitely work on that aspect of your application materials.

If you want to do PI, NYU is a great school for it as it has a lot of institutional support that some schools have been lacking up to now. Both Columbia and Chicago are developing their resources so they are getting better, but NYU still seems to lead in this area.

Further, if you are certain that you want to do PI, with the way NYU's LRAP is set up at this point, if you follow their guidelines, you will not have to pay back any of your loans. NYU will send you a check each month to cover them. This assumes you pay your minimum student contribution, stay in PI for 10 years, make under 80k in your job after law school, and the federal government's IBR program still works that long. It's a pretty good program, so check it out. Even if IBR or loan forgiveness goes down, NYU seems pretty committed to keeping this kind of program running.


Thank you so much, your detailed post was really helpful to me. I did not know that about the RTK -- it is good to know that once you are in, they mainly look at your PI background. Still, I don't know if I am qualified enough for it, but I think I should give it a shot at the very least! Also thank you for the information about the LRAP program. :mrgreen:

Also booasa, I am applying to U Chicago because I got a fee waiver but I don't know if I want to live in Chicago as my family and SO are going to be on the east coast. Honestly I am tired of long distance. Also I heard U Chicago is not very supportive of public interest but I will apply anyway and it may be a good option if I do get some money, as you said! Thanks!!

I'm pretty well certain that your numbers won't matter for the RTK. I have many friends in the program, and my closest friend landed a root with a great GPA (think 3.9+) but an LSAT approaching 10 points below median. I think they have access to your admissions info (though I'm not sure about that), but what they really look for is serious, demonstrated commitment to public interest. Lots of Teach for America folks, etc.

Anyways, I'll echo the endorsement for NYU if you are interested in PI. You could also change your mind and have a great shot at the private sector. The professors are absolutely top-notch, the environment is pretty chill in my experience, and the Village is great. No reason not to apply to UChi, and you should definitely visit the various schools to see how you feel about fit. NYU is clearly the superior option, though :)

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Yukos
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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Yukos » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:28 am

On a related note, does NYU's PI prestige/network extend at all beyond NYC? If someone wanted to go into Cali PI, would NYU still make sense or is Boalt (assuming S is not possible) the way to go?

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Re: Northwestern ED or NYU/CLS?

Postby Shaggier1 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:17 pm

If someone wanted to go into Cali PI, would NYU still make sense or is Boalt (assuming S is not possible) the way to go?


Tough to beat Boalt when it comes to IP in California...




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