Underrated Law Schools

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IAFG
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby IAFG » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:30 pm

Pre-ITE, PDaddy's post was TLS conventional wisdom. It was accurate then, but it hasn't been for years.

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IAFG
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby IAFG » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:32 pm

ahduth wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UChicago is probably also underrated. A peer school of HYS, but everybody acts like they're on the same level as NYU.


On balance, aren't they on the same level as NYU? Zero PI placement, equal placement power in New York, slightly better clerkship placement, and maybe better big firm placement outside New York? I don't think that makes them an HYS peer - you have to be able to place people anywhere to merit being on that top tier.

He must be trolling. All you have to do is look at UChi's below median placement to see they are no HYS.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:32 pm

People's perception of a law school is all that matters, so the idea that a school is better than people think it is doesn't work. If people think a school is bad, than it is.

However, if you are saying are some schools better than there usnwr ranking indicates?
I would say no. Just that a lot of schools are worse than their ranking indicates. (see: cardozo).

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cmckid
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby cmckid » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:39 pm

Vandy- If you put it in NYC, it'd be a top 10 LS for sure. Its because so many graduates take top jobs in the South at non-NLJ 250 firms that it is underrated. Cornell is over-rated, imo. As a school, its weak, but because of its placement in New York it feeds into the big firms there.

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Grizz
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:17 pm

cmckid wrote:Vandy- If you put it in NYC, it'd be a top 10 LS for sure. Its because so many graduates take top jobs in the South at non-NLJ 250 firms that it is underrated. Cornell is over-rated, imo. As a school, its weak, but because of its placement in New York it feeds into the big firms there.

lol why is that a weakness

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:24 pm

ahduth wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UChicago is probably also underrated. A peer school of HYS, but everybody acts like they're on the same level as NYU.


On balance, aren't they on the same level as NYU? Zero PI placement, equal placement power in New York, slightly better clerkship placement, and maybe better big firm placement outside New York? I don't think that makes them an HYS peer - you have to be able to place people anywhere to merit being on that top tier.


You mean outperforms everyone in biglaw placement. See: NLJ 250, 80% of last years students summered at biglaw firms, double the number of partners of graduates per capita, the next highest is harvard who has half the number of partners.

Wait, what about elite clerkship placement? Second only to Yale per capita on the Supreme Court over the last ten years.

I think Chicago is a peer with Yale and maybe Stanford, but definitely much better than Harvard.

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby RVP11 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:28 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
TheFactor wrote:Any lower-ranked school that dominates its local market (e.g. Colorado, Alabama, North Dakota, etc.).


This. The relevance of any answer will depend heavily on geographic preference, and the schools will be more "overlooked" (justifiably, by people who don't want to live there) than underrated.


*Is Californian*

*Goes to Colorado for law school*

*Can't get a job in CO because he's not native*

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:29 pm

RVP11 wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
TheFactor wrote:Any lower-ranked school that dominates its local market (e.g. Colorado, Alabama, North Dakota, etc.).


This. The relevance of any answer will depend heavily on geographic preference, and the schools will be more "overlooked" (justifiably, by people who don't want to live there) than underrated.


*Is Californian*

*Goes to Colorado for law school*

*Can't get a job in CO because he's not native*


--ImageRemoved--

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RVP11
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby RVP11 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:31 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:--ImageRemoved--


That's not actually my story, BRO. (I went from T10 that according to at least one poster in this thread "doesn't have national reach" ---> my home market on the other side of the country.)

But that's the story of many people who blindly follow the dumb advice of "go to law school where you want to practice!"
Last edited by RVP11 on Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:32 pm

RVP11 wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
TheFactor wrote:Any lower-ranked school that dominates its local market (e.g. Colorado, Alabama, North Dakota, etc.).


This. The relevance of any answer will depend heavily on geographic preference, and the schools will be more "overlooked" (justifiably, by people who don't want to live there) than underrated.


*Is Californian*

*Goes to Colorado for law school*

*Can't get a job in CO because he's not native*

A lot of people tend to discount this. For southern firms, sometimes just going to school in the state isn't enough. They want born n bred types.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:35 pm

Grizz wrote:They want inbred types.


How I read it

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:35 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UChicago is probably also underrated. A peer school of HYS, but everybody acts like they're on the same level as NYU.


On balance, aren't they on the same level as NYU? Zero PI placement, equal placement power in New York, slightly better clerkship placement, and maybe better big firm placement outside New York? I don't think that makes them an HYS peer - you have to be able to place people anywhere to merit being on that top tier.


You mean outperforms everyone in biglaw placement. See: NLJ 250, 80% of last years students summered at biglaw firms, double the number of partners of graduates per capita, the next highest is harvard who has half the number of partners.

Wait, what about elite clerkship placement? Second only to Yale per capita on the Supreme Court over the last ten years.

I think Chicago is a peer with Yale and maybe Stanford, but definitely much better than Harvard.


lol you are either a troll or you go to chicago. anyone still have the hilarious rant about the guy who got into chicago but rejected everywhere else

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:36 pm

RVP11 wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:--ImageRemoved--


That's not actually my story, BRO. (I went T10 --> any market I wanted.)

But that's the story of many people who blindly follow the dumb advice of "go to law school where you want to practice!"


Fair enough, there is obviously a certain degree of risk when it comes with transplanting yourself. If the school isn't employing 100% at graduation, somebody is SOL (obviously, but laying it out). But if I'm from FL, and I'm desperate to work in CO for whatever reason, I'm better off going to CU rather than most schools outside the T13

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Grizz
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:42 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Grizz wrote:They want inbred types.


How I read it

lewl

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby 005618502 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:01 pm

RVP11 wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:--ImageRemoved--


That's not actually my story, BRO. (I went from T10 that according to at least one poster in this thread "doesn't have national reach" ---> my home market on the other side of the country.)

But that's the story of many people who blindly follow the dumb advice of "go to law school where you want to practice!"


Who said UVA doesnt have national reach?

Thats just wrong

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:35 pm

muaythaifighter wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UChicago is probably also underrated. A peer school of HYS, but everybody acts like they're on the same level as NYU.


On balance, aren't they on the same level as NYU? Zero PI placement, equal placement power in New York, slightly better clerkship placement, and maybe better big firm placement outside New York? I don't think that makes them an HYS peer - you have to be able to place people anywhere to merit being on that top tier.


You mean outperforms everyone in biglaw placement. See: NLJ 250, 80% of last years students summered at biglaw firms, double the number of partners of graduates per capita, the next highest is harvard who has half the number of partners.

Wait, what about elite clerkship placement? Second only to Yale per capita on the Supreme Court over the last ten years.

I think Chicago is a peer with Yale and maybe Stanford, but definitely much better than Harvard.


lol you are either a troll or you go to chicago. anyone still have the hilarious rant about the guy who got into chicago but rejected everywhere else


Yeah. There is a rant out there from autoadmit I can post.

Seriously though, you cant argue against empirical evidence.

I just quoted you three statistics that show that Chicago is objectively better than at least Harvard, and probably Stanford.

Explain to me why Chicago outplaces Harvard and Stanford in Biglaw, Supreme Court Clerkships, and as law firm partners.

I know that because a school lacks lay prestige and has nerdy students that it is easy to make fun of it, but it is probably owning your school.

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby vexion » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:44 pm

mths wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Yeshia90 wrote:If this is a serious question, I know Cornell does surprisingly well at biglaw placement, but only on TLS is that considered a lower-ranked law school. I know less than nothing, but apparently people like SMU?


Wait till the newest employment numbers come out. My money is on Vandy > Cornell in NLJ250.

zinger

seems like the school did well this oci season actually in most large markets other than Chicago

+1. The new curve successfully tricked employers.

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby rayiner » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:15 pm

cmckid wrote:Vandy- If you put it in NYC, it'd be a top 10 LS for sure. Its because so many graduates take top jobs in the South at non-NLJ 250 firms that it is underrated. Cornell is over-rated, imo. As a school, its weak, but because of its placement in New York it feeds into the big firms there.


Well duh. Heck, they put a TTT law school in Greenwich village and within a few decades it was Top-6.

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:25 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
Yeah. There is a rant out there from autoadmit I can post.

Seriously though, you cant argue against empirical evidence.

I just quoted you three statistics that show that Chicago is objectively better than at least Harvard, and probably Stanford.

Explain to me why Chicago outplaces Harvard and Stanford in Biglaw, Supreme Court Clerkships, and as law firm partners.

I know that because a school lacks lay prestige and has nerdy students that it is easy to make fun of it, but it is probably owning your school.


lol you are the only one here getting your panties in a bunch my friend who has a chip on the shoulder. i don't really care about lay prestige and i don't share the assumption that chicago is full of nerds.

i respect chicago as an institution, but just because you attend chicago you are skewing data without accounting for mitigating factors. plus, if you say your school is owning my school, that sort of stuff just makes it seem like you are mad and childish. i am not going to sit here and waste my time arguing with you over is Chicago is better than HYS, but one thing i do know, if you got accepted to HYS, you would have gone there over Chicago. please don't try to convince me that you would have given up HYS for Chicago.

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:32 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:I chose to go Chicago because:

1) The educational quality at Chicago is better than any other T6 school-- The faculty have a strong pedagogical focus, especially in fundamental legal principles-- I'd venture to say more so than any other T6 school. Additionally, its rigor is unmatched for T6 schools.

2) Class size. I did not want to go to Columbia, NYU, or Harvard because of their size. I feel small size leads to great placement and a better overall educational value.

3) Interdisciplinary Educational Emphasis. Chicago encourages its law students to take courses across a range of disciplines and become academically rounded. Because of my interest in both International Relations and upper-level Mandarin Chinese coursework, I feel that I will be able to develop a rounded education at Chicago.

4) Placement. Outside of Biglaw (All T6 schools do well with Biglaw), I like Chicago's Clerkship and Academia Placement.

I did not want to attend Stanford due to personal reasons and felt gambling for Yale (the only school I was interested in besides Chicago) would be foolish this cycle. Therefore I ED'd..


lol your reasons for liking chicago are ridiculous and stereotypical. it is like you feel the constant urge to shout in ppl's faces that chicago is the best thing because that was your "dream school".

1.) you like the rigor! seriously? lol enough said.
2.) small class size leading to a better education? i thought legal education was the same everywhere lol
3.) lol interdisciplinary education? that is advertisement that every school uses bud
4.) placement, you have already covered that so i won't say anything

you did not want to attend stanford or harvard? i am sorry but you would not have been accepted. your "i quit before you reject me" excuse is weak man. you also thought that chicago would not screw you in scholarships because they told you an ED applicant is treated fairly in that aspect. can you be any more naive?

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby 071816 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:36 pm

muaythaifighter wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UChicago is probably also underrated. A peer school of HYS, but everybody acts like they're on the same level as NYU.


On balance, aren't they on the same level as NYU? Zero PI placement, equal placement power in New York, slightly better clerkship placement, and maybe better big firm placement outside New York? I don't think that makes them an HYS peer - you have to be able to place people anywhere to merit being on that top tier.


You mean outperforms everyone in biglaw placement. See: NLJ 250, 80% of last years students summered at biglaw firms, double the number of partners of graduates per capita, the next highest is harvard who has half the number of partners.

Wait, what about elite clerkship placement? Second only to Yale per capita on the Supreme Court over the last ten years.

I think Chicago is a peer with Yale and maybe Stanford, but definitely much better than Harvard.


lol you are either a troll or you go to chicago. anyone still have the hilarious rant about the guy who got into chicago but rejected everywhere else


I'm pretty sure the poster is both a student at Chicago and a pro-Chicago troll. Who else would say that Chicago is "definitely much better than Harvard?"

muaythaifighter
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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:37 pm

lol turns out he is not a troll, he is just a chicago student who just makes them look worse

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby bjsesq » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:20 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
ahduth wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UChicago is probably also underrated. A peer school of HYS, but everybody acts like they're on the same level as NYU.


On balance, aren't they on the same level as NYU? Zero PI placement, equal placement power in New York, slightly better clerkship placement, and maybe better big firm placement outside New York? I don't think that makes them an HYS peer - you have to be able to place people anywhere to merit being on that top tier.


You mean outperforms everyone in biglaw placement. See: NLJ 250, 80% of last years students summered at biglaw firms, double the number of partners of graduates per capita, the next highest is harvard who has half the number of partners.

Wait, what about elite clerkship placement? Second only to Yale per capita on the Supreme Court over the last ten years.

I think Chicago is a peer with Yale and maybe Stanford, but definitely much better than Harvard.


Oh, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:16 pm

bjsesq wrote:
Oh, SHUT THE FUCK UP.


lol +1 this guy is more delusional than a high charlie sheen

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Re: Underrated Law Schools

Postby soj » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:37 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Argument that conveniently ignores Chicago's weaknesses in placement, such as PI and government

I think Chicago is a peer with Yale and maybe Stanford, but definitely much better than Harvard.

This is embarrassing. Chicago's one of my top choices, but even I roll my eyes at this kind of rationalization.

Self-selection can't explain every difference between peer schools, but it does complicate interpreting placement data.




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