Underrated Law Schools Forum
- Rowinguy2009
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Columbia is underrated by people who think Chicago is better than Columbia.
- Tiago Splitter
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
+1soj wrote: This is embarrassing. Chicago's one of my top choices, but even I roll my eyes at this kind of rationalization.
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Wishful thinking is wishful? Not that Vandy is a bad school, but come on...cmckid wrote:Vandy- If you put it in NYC, it'd be a top 10 LS for sure. Its because so many graduates take top jobs in the South at non-NLJ 250 firms that it is underrated. Cornell is over-rated, imo. As a school, its weak, but because of its placement in New York it feeds into the big firms there.
As far as truly underrated schools go, my vote's for Temple. Cheap in-state tuition makes its placement rate quite decent on a per-dollar basis.
- Supreme
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Yale and Stanford. It's not so much them being underrated as much as it is Harvard being incredibly overrated. ITE Harvard is much much much much much closer to CCN than it is to YS.
- ahduth
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Here's Harvard: http://www.wc.com/attorneys-search.html ... ton=SearchTaipeiMort wrote:Yeah. There is a rant out there from autoadmit I can post.
Seriously though, you cant argue against empirical evidence.
I just quoted you three statistics that show that Chicago is objectively better than at least Harvard, and probably Stanford.
Explain to me why Chicago outplaces Harvard and Stanford in Biglaw, Supreme Court Clerkships, and as law firm partners.
I know that because a school lacks lay prestige and has nerdy students that it is easy to make fun of it, but it is probably owning your school.
Where's Chicago?
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Ya'll need to get over yourselves. Chicago is a fantastic school and so is Harvard, Stanford. This is the dumbest argument ever based on opinions and your pretentiousness.
- Helmholtz
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
UChicago: 16 total attorneysahduth wrote:Here's Harvard: http://www.wc.com/attorneys-search.html ... ton=SearchTaipeiMort wrote:Yeah. There is a rant out there from autoadmit I can post.
Seriously though, you cant argue against empirical evidence.
I just quoted you three statistics that show that Chicago is objectively better than at least Harvard, and probably Stanford.
Explain to me why Chicago outplaces Harvard and Stanford in Biglaw, Supreme Court Clerkships, and as law firm partners.
I know that because a school lacks lay prestige and has nerdy students that it is easy to make fun of it, but it is probably owning your school.
Where's Chicago?
Harvard: 47 total attorneys
UChicago: 14 total partners
Harvard: 22 total partners
UChicago's class size (after transfers): 210 students
Harvard's class size (after transfers): 600 students
UChicago attorneys/class size = 0.076
Harvard attorneys/class size = 0.078
UChicago partners/class size = 0.067
Harvard partners/class size = 0.037
- ahduth
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
You're on the wrong website. Thanks for playing though.sparty99 wrote:Ya'll need to get over yourselves. Chicago is a fantastic school and so is Harvard, Stanford. This is the dumbest argument ever based on opinions and your pretentiousness.
- ahduth
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Jesus Christ I missed a "the" and you win. Just for shits and giggles can you find me an appellate firm that has Harvard beating Chicago?Helmholtz wrote:UChicago: 16 total attorneysahduth wrote:Here's Harvard: http://www.wc.com/attorneys-search.html ... ton=SearchTaipeiMort wrote:Yeah. There is a rant out there from autoadmit I can post.
Seriously though, you cant argue against empirical evidence.
I just quoted you three statistics that show that Chicago is objectively better than at least Harvard, and probably Stanford.
Explain to me why Chicago outplaces Harvard and Stanford in Biglaw, Supreme Court Clerkships, and as law firm partners.
I know that because a school lacks lay prestige and has nerdy students that it is easy to make fun of it, but it is probably owning your school.
Where's Chicago?
Harvard: 47 total attorneys
UChicago: 14 total partners
Harvard: 22 total partners
UChicago's class size (after transfers): 210 students
Harvard's class size (after transfers): 600 students
UChicago attorneys/class size = 0.076
Harvard attorneys/class size = 0.078
UChicago partners/class size = 0.067
Harvard attorneys/class size = 0.037
- thexfactor
- Posts: 1291
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:40 am
Re: Underrated Law Schools
from an employers perspective - id say washu is underrated. High lsat gpa but shitty job prospects. UCLA/GULC is only marginally better in terms of lsat and gpa but WUSTL recruiting is a lot worse compared to those schools.
from student- id say ND. At least you dont have HR acting confused when you say you go to washu. They have a great alumni base that is actually responsive. At least you can try to "network" with them.
from student- id say ND. At least you dont have HR acting confused when you say you go to washu. They have a great alumni base that is actually responsive. At least you can try to "network" with them.
- Aberzombie1892
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am
Re: Underrated Law Schools
Mod smackdown.Helmholtz wrote: UChicago: 16 total attorneys
Harvard: 47 total attorneys
UChicago: 14 total partners
Harvard: 22 total partners
UChicago's class size (after transfers): 210 students
Harvard's class size (after transfers): 600 students
UChicago attorneys/class size = 0.076
Harvard attorneys/class size = 0.078
UChicago partners/class size = 0.067
Harvard attorneys/class size = 0.037
But seriously, Chicago and Columbia are generally as good as HYS to the extent to which someone shouldn't automatically turn them down merely because they were accepted to HYS (Particularly H).
- TaipeiMort
- Posts: 869
- Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 pm
Re: Underrated Law Schools
I am not trolling, I really think that as an indistinct (no real softs) white male with normal social skills, you will probably be better coming out of Chicago's class than Harvard's. Because there are three times as many of you at Harvard, there may be 30 or so of you at Chicago while there will be around 100 at Harvard.
This may not help a ton when applying to New York and DC, but it will definitely help when applying to mid-level markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Seattle. There may be only one or two like you applying to these firms from Chicago with ties in each region, while you are competing with five or so for each position at Harvard.
This may not help a ton when applying to New York and DC, but it will definitely help when applying to mid-level markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Seattle. There may be only one or two like you applying to these firms from Chicago with ties in each region, while you are competing with five or so for each position at Harvard.
- TaipeiMort
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- Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 pm
Re: Underrated Law Schools
Oh, and BYU is really underrated in the 40's. They place pretty well in mid/big law (20%) and only costs 5 grand per year.
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- Supreme
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:46 pm
Re: Underrated Law Schools
If you have normal social skills at Chicago, there are a lot fewer than 30 people like you in your class.TaipeiMort wrote:I am not trolling, I really think that as an indistinct (no real softs) white male with normal social skills, you will probably be better coming out of Chicago's class than Harvard's. Because there are three times as many of you at Harvard, there may be 30 or so of you at Chicago while there will be around 100 at Harvard.
This may not help a ton when applying to New York and DC, but it will definitely help when applying to mid-level markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Seattle. There may be only one or two like you applying to these firms from Chicago with ties in each region, while you are competing with five or so for each position at Harvard.
- Bildungsroman
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
So I take it you're enjoying orientation?Supreme wrote:If you have normal social skills at Chicago, there are a lot fewer than 30 people like you in your class.TaipeiMort wrote:I am not trolling, I really think that as an indistinct (no real softs) white male with normal social skills, you will probably be better coming out of Chicago's class than Harvard's. Because there are three times as many of you at Harvard, there may be 30 or so of you at Chicago while there will be around 100 at Harvard.
This may not help a ton when applying to New York and DC, but it will definitely help when applying to mid-level markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Seattle. There may be only one or two like you applying to these firms from Chicago with ties in each region, while you are competing with five or so for each position at Harvard.
- KremeCheez
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Full-rides are underrated.
- Helmholtz
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
I have to say that all the other academics-to-be in my study group are some of the most normal, intellectual, qualified-to-be-in-a-study-group people I've interacted with in a fairly long time.Bildungsroman wrote:So I take it you're enjoying orientation?Supreme wrote:If you have normal social skills at Chicago, there are a lot fewer than 30 people like you in your class.TaipeiMort wrote:I am not trolling, I really think that as an indistinct (no real softs) white male with normal social skills, you will probably be better coming out of Chicago's class than Harvard's. Because there are three times as many of you at Harvard, there may be 30 or so of you at Chicago while there will be around 100 at Harvard.
This may not help a ton when applying to New York and DC, but it will definitely help when applying to mid-level markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Seattle. There may be only one or two like you applying to these firms from Chicago with ties in each region, while you are competing with five or so for each position at Harvard.
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- Supreme
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:46 pm
Re: Underrated Law Schools
but of course.Bildungsroman wrote:So I take it you're enjoying orientation?Supreme wrote:If you have normal social skills at Chicago, there are a lot fewer than 30 people like you in your class.TaipeiMort wrote:I am not trolling, I really think that as an indistinct (no real softs) white male with normal social skills, you will probably be better coming out of Chicago's class than Harvard's. Because there are three times as many of you at Harvard, there may be 30 or so of you at Chicago while there will be around 100 at Harvard.
This may not help a ton when applying to New York and DC, but it will definitely help when applying to mid-level markets such as Phoenix, San Diego, and Seattle. There may be only one or two like you applying to these firms from Chicago with ties in each region, while you are competing with five or so for each position at Harvard.
- PDaddy
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
It really is, and that's kind of the point. I am certainly not the arbiter of law school quality. We all have our differing and equally valid reasons for why certain schools are underrated (or "under-ranked", which is a slightly different dynamic). I can admit that mine are no better or more valid than is anyone else's.chimp wrote:^Seems like a random listing of law schools.^
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
I go to NYU, which is underrated and at least as good as Stanford, possibly Yale, and certainly better than Harvard. I believe this because of the school's unparalleled public interest network, strong placement in big law firms, and large class size which, along with its location, presents extremely broad extracurricular opportunities.
See how easy that was? It's a fact now. NYU > Chicago.
(I think NYU is actually underrated on TLS because people can't get over the fact that it's associated with a relatively mediocre university and will go on and on about how it's only any good because of the location, as if that's a criticism.)
See how easy that was? It's a fact now. NYU > Chicago.
(I think NYU is actually underrated on TLS because people can't get over the fact that it's associated with a relatively mediocre university and will go on and on about how it's only any good because of the location, as if that's a criticism.)
- TaipeiMort
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Except I quoted actual data. However, I do agree that NYU is underrated in some ways (respect in NYC and anywhere NYC law firms go), and is not a product of its location, but rather its successful alumni base (see NYLS, WLRK).dixiecupdrinking wrote:I go to NYU, which is underrated and at least as good as Stanford, possibly Yale, and certainly better than Harvard. I believe this because of the school's unparalleled public interest network, strong placement in big law firms, and large class size which, along with its location, presents extremely broad extracurricular opportunities.
See how easy that was? It's a fact now. NYU > Chicago.
(I think NYU is actually underrated on TLS because people can't get over the fact that it's associated with a relatively mediocre university and will go on and on about how it's only any good because of the location, as if that's a criticism.)
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Right, but the things you cite are so susceptible to self-selection that, at the level of schools you're talking about, they aren't really a good basis for measuring anything. For instance, to me it seems silly to claim that Chicago having twice as many biglaw partners as anyone else is suggestive of the school's quality. There is almost nothing anyone learns in law school that is in any way related to the skills you need to become a partner. I think the far simpler explanation is that Chicago attracts people who are willing to work harder than average -- grinders -- and people who are probably genuinely more intellectually interested in the law than average. These things make it likely that Chicago grads will be, on average, happier to stay in a firm environment for the long term, but I think it is entirely a function of the very particular qualities that the school attracts in its student body. Same goes, to some extent, for the biglaw placement and clerkship placement, IMO. Going to Chicago doesn't make you more likely to get these things; rather, if you go to Chicago, you are probably more interested in pursuing these things.TaipeiMort wrote:Except I quoted actual data. However, I do agree that NYU is underrated in some ways (respect in NYC and anywhere NYC law firms go), and is not a product of its location, but rather its successful alumni base (see NYLS, WLRK).dixiecupdrinking wrote:I go to NYU, which is underrated and at least as good as Stanford, possibly Yale, and certainly better than Harvard. I believe this because of the school's unparalleled public interest network, strong placement in big law firms, and large class size which, along with its location, presents extremely broad extracurricular opportunities.
See how easy that was? It's a fact now. NYU > Chicago.
(I think NYU is actually underrated on TLS because people can't get over the fact that it's associated with a relatively mediocre university and will go on and on about how it's only any good because of the location, as if that's a criticism.)
Anyway, I'm not out to shit on Chicago, I'm sure it's a great school and I wish you and everyone else there the best of luck. I just think this is such a hopeless and pointless endeavor, which is something I wish I had known a couple of years ago when trying to make these kinds of fine distinctions among schools.
- TaipeiMort
- Posts: 869
- Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 pm
Re: Underrated Law Schools
Agreed with everything.dixiecupdrinking wrote:Right, but the things you cite are so susceptible to self-selection that, at the level of schools you're talking about, they aren't really a good basis for measuring anything. For instance, to me it seems silly to claim that Chicago having twice as many biglaw partners as anyone else is suggestive of the school's quality. There is almost nothing anyone learns in law school that is in any way related to the skills you need to become a partner. I think the far simpler explanation is that Chicago attracts people who are willing to work harder than average -- grinders -- and people who are probably genuinely more intellectually interested in the law than average. These things make it likely that Chicago grads will be, on average, happier to stay in a firm environment for the long term, but I think it is entirely a function of the very particular qualities that the school attracts in its student body. Same goes, to some extent, for the biglaw placement and clerkship placement, IMO. Going to Chicago doesn't make you more likely to get these things; rather, if you go to Chicago, you are probably more interested in pursuing these things.TaipeiMort wrote:Except I quoted actual data. However, I do agree that NYU is underrated in some ways (respect in NYC and anywhere NYC law firms go), and is not a product of its location, but rather its successful alumni base (see NYLS, WLRK).dixiecupdrinking wrote:I go to NYU, which is underrated and at least as good as Stanford, possibly Yale, and certainly better than Harvard. I believe this because of the school's unparalleled public interest network, strong placement in big law firms, and large class size which, along with its location, presents extremely broad extracurricular opportunities.
See how easy that was? It's a fact now. NYU > Chicago.
(I think NYU is actually underrated on TLS because people can't get over the fact that it's associated with a relatively mediocre university and will go on and on about how it's only any good because of the location, as if that's a criticism.)
Anyway, I'm not out to shit on Chicago, I'm sure it's a great school and I wish you and everyone else there the best of luck. I just think this is such a hopeless and pointless endeavor, which is something I wish I had known a couple of years ago when trying to make these kinds of fine distinctions among schools.
At the T6 level, I think quality is generally uniform in terms of educational experiences. In the end distinctions are pretty subtle and based on personal preference, ie:
NYU: For hipstes and PI people.
Columbia: For people who want to feel like the best in NYC.
Harvard: For those that care more about lay prestige than educational quality.
Stanford: For those who actually care where they live.
Chicago: For those looking for rigor and slightly nerdy.
Yale: For those who are better than everyone else.
- chrisbru
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
Late to the party, but needs to be said:sparty99 wrote:Ya'll need to get over yourselves. Chicago is a fantastic school and so is Harvard, Stanford. This is the dumbest argument ever based on opinions and your pretentiousness.
Please don't try and condemn someone's argument until you can learn how contractions work.
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Re: Underrated Law Schools
You were doubting my full-ride, but you had a 2.9 gpa and got a full ride at Iowa. I can HARDLY see why you have any room for doubt......chrisbru wrote:Late to the party, but needs to be said:sparty99 wrote:Ya'll need to get over yourselves. Chicago is a fantastic school and so is Harvard, Stanford. This is the dumbest argument ever based on opinions and your pretentiousness.
Please don't try and condemn someone's argument until you can learn how contractions work.
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