PSA: You will not work in "international law"

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Grizz
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:07 pm

Lawquacious wrote:Second of all, of course a TLS mod has more wisdom than the administrators at the top law schools, which, as far as I have seen, all have extensive emphasis on international law at this point.


Just because students demand intl. law doesn't mean that there are actually jobs on the back end.

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romothesavior
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:08 pm

Lawquacious wrote:Second of all, of course a TLS mod has more wisdom than the administrators at the top law schools, which, as far as I have seen, all have extensive emphasis on international law at this point. Just because I don't agree with certain myopic and well-worn views that that have become mantra on TLS about the meaninglessness and non-existence of international law doesn't make you right, wiser, or more experienced on the topic.

Okay come on.


--ImageRemoved--

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Emma.
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Emma. » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:11 pm

Grizz wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:Second of all, of course a TLS mod has more wisdom than the administrators at the top law schools, which, as far as I have seen, all have extensive emphasis on international law at this point.


Just because students demand intl. law doesn't mean that there are actually jobs on the back end.


This.

You really think administrators, even at "the top law schools," don't tell prospective students what they want to hear?

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Bildungsroman
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:12 pm

Emma. wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:Second of all, of course a TLS mod has more wisdom than the administrators at the top law schools, which, as far as I have seen, all have extensive emphasis on international law at this point.


Just because students demand intl. law doesn't mean that there are actually jobs on the back end.


This.

You really think administrators, even at "the top law schools," don't tell prospective students what they want to hear?

No brah, law schools are notorious for giving complete and accurate information about employment and never misleading their applicant pool.

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nealric
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby nealric » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:14 pm

Second of all, of course a TLS mod has more wisdom than the administrators at the top law schools, which, as far as I have seen, all have extensive emphasis on international law at this point.


Universities have plenty of programs with no real-world application. Their job is to get your tuition dollars, not to get you a job. Starry eyed 0Ls all want to do "international law", so law schools give them what they want- classes in international law.

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Naked Dude
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:29 pm

yeah, I have to say that the most disturbing part of orientation was every speaker's (be it dean, general administrator or professor) exhortation to relax because, you WILL get a job. Yes, don't worry, the population is expanding and everyone needs legal services so you WILL get a job. I think it was supposed to put us at ease, but you can't will reality through repeating a stock phrase. the subliminal message was terrifying. I don't think I've ever sensed a more contradictory subtext. i may be slightly overdramatizing...

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romothesavior
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:30 pm

Naked Dude wrote:yeah, I have to say that the most disturbing part of orientation was every speaker's (be it dean, general administrator or professor) exhortation to relax because, you WILL get a job. Yes, don't worry, the population is expanding and everyone needs legal services so you WILL get a job. I think it was supposed to put us at ease, but you can't will reality through repeating a stock phrase. the subliminal message was terrifying. I don't think I've ever sensed a more contradictory subtext. i may be slightly overdramatizing...

This post is relevant to this thread.

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Grizz
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:32 pm

Naked Dude wrote:yeah, I have to say that the most disturbing part of orientation was every speaker's (be it dean, general administrator or professor) exhortation to relax because, you WILL get a job. Yes, don't worry, the population is expanding and everyone needs legal services so you WILL get a job. I think it was supposed to put us at ease, but you can't will reality through repeating a stock phrase. the subliminal message was terrifying. I don't think I've ever sensed a more contradictory subtext. i may be slightly overdramatizing...

In general, quite a few of these ivory-tower intellectuals have no idea what they are talking about.

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romothesavior
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:34 pm

Grizz wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:yeah, I have to say that the most disturbing part of orientation was every speaker's (be it dean, general administrator or professor) exhortation to relax because, you WILL get a job. Yes, don't worry, the population is expanding and everyone needs legal services so you WILL get a job. I think it was supposed to put us at ease, but you can't will reality through repeating a stock phrase. the subliminal message was terrifying. I don't think I've ever sensed a more contradictory subtext. i may be slightly overdramatizing...

In general, quite a few of these ivory-tower intellectuals have no idea what they are talking about.

+1

shoeshine
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby shoeshine » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:35 pm

Naked Dude wrote:yeah, I have to say that the most disturbing part of orientation was every speaker's (be it dean, general administrator or professor) exhortation to relax because, you WILL get a job. Yes, don't worry, the population is expanding and everyone needs legal services so you WILL get a job. I think it was supposed to put us at ease, but you can't will reality through repeating a stock phrase. the subliminal message was terrifying. I don't think I've ever sensed a more contradictory subtext. i may be slightly overdramatizing...


+1, people telling me to "relax" makes me think I have something to worry about.

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99.9luft
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:37 pm

I wonder if writing a lawl school PS about International Human Rights makes me look naive to the adcoms...

what does team snarky think?

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Emma.
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Emma. » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:39 pm

99.9luft wrote:I wonder if writing a lawl school PS about International Human Rights makes me look naive to the adcoms...

what does team snarky think?


They'll nom you up. People like to think that their clever plans have worked.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:41 pm

Naked Dude wrote:yeah, I have to say that the most disturbing part of orientation was every speaker's (be it dean, general administrator or professor) exhortation to relax because, you WILL get a job. Yes, don't worry, the population is expanding and everyone needs legal services so you WILL get a job. I think it was supposed to put us at ease, but you can't will reality through repeating a stock phrase. the subliminal message was terrifying. I don't think I've ever sensed a more contradictory subtext. i may be slightly overdramatizing...

After hearing such sentiments at my orientation, the final speaker hit us with this gem (paraphrasing): "To think that many in the legal field are not using technology to replace many of the basic functions previously done by lawyers or that the legal field is immune to out-sourcing will only make reality even more difficult to come to terms with. But you must find a way to adapt."

Oh, is that all? All we need to do is find a way "to adapt"?

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99.9luft
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:49 pm

Emma. wrote:
99.9luft wrote:I wonder if writing a lawl school PS about International Human Rights makes me look naive to the adcoms...

what does team snarky think?


They'll nom you up. People like to think that their clever plans have worked.


haha, but i feel like it's better to sound too idealistic than overly practical in your PS (i.e. i wanna go to LS just for my biglaw 160k so i can have a nice car, house, etc).

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Emma.
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Emma. » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:51 pm

99.9luft wrote:
Emma. wrote:
99.9luft wrote:I wonder if writing a lawl school PS about International Human Rights makes me look naive to the adcoms...

what does team snarky think?


They'll nom you up. People like to think that their clever plans have worked.


haha, but i feel like it's better to sound too idealistic than overly practical in your PS (i.e. i wanna go to LS just for my biglaw 160k so i can have a nice car, house, etc).


Exactly.

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Naked Dude
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:58 pm

ITE my aspirations, in order of descending personal importance are: 1) employment 2) reasonable compensation and 3) something relevant to my interests. I knew an LLM who managed to snag a job offer, but turned it down because it wasn't tax. I understand the desire to be a tax attorney, and fear that you'll never get there because you didn't get it out of school, but I do not see how bartending (not knocking bartenders btw, good gig in the right places) and waiting over a year for a position to open up in what you want to do (tax) is preferable to legal experience in a litigation firm. In fairness, it was a boutique with no tax practice to internally lateral into, but still. Nice guy, and maybe he's right, but I think I would just take the job. If there are a lot of people out there who follow that line of reasoning, I don't know that I'm too scared of unemployment.

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Lawquacious
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:27 am

This thread is just cracking me up now. :lol: No Romo, I actually wasn't trolling.. I do really think that TLS overdoes the anti-international law bit, but I do understand that in terms of actual jobs that international law is not something that someone can simply 'go into' in a similar way as many other positions or practice areas.

Yeah, for sure, just because the courses and emphasis exists doesn't mean it is necessarily worthwhile. But I think--in fact--the emphasis does reflect that international law is a significant area of study that at least some people are eventually able to "go into" (in academia at least, but I would argue for a broader definition that includes many overseas public interest jobs and other overseas position--even where the law practiced is local to that particular nation the person ends up in).

And VanWinkle: I apologize if I came on too strong or if the sarcasm was obnoxious (that goes for other sarcastic comments I made in this thread as well/to posters in general)--I've been feeling bitter and reacting harshly over what I see as other posters' bitterness and harshness on TLS. :lol:

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johnnyutah
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby johnnyutah » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:42 am

99.9luft wrote:I wonder if writing a lawl school PS about International Human Rights makes me look naive to the adcoms...

what does team snarky think?

Team Snarky thinks that adcoms like love naive applicants with good numbers. They will feast upon you.

JDClassof3013
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby JDClassof3013 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:36 pm

I am at HYS. I know some international lawyers (UN, EC, ICC sort of stuff)

Pro tip for wanna be international lawyers;

1. Go look at the organizations you want to work for
2. Find lawyers doing what you want to do
3. LOOK AT THEIR RESUMES
4. If you can't achieve that, give it up.

Most of the people I know in the UN/ICC are not American (because of the country quotas/hiring politics). Most of them are fluent - native fluent - in multiple languages. Not just "French at college" fluent but "Italian & dutch parents and grew up in Iran. And oh I speak French too" types. Most have at least a masters if not a phD and a bunch of post docs in some development area. Again, not "I did a MPP and got a high GPA" masters. More like "I'm an econometrics expert who won an international scholarship to study some obscure heavily technical development specialty" expert.

They're that good. Most of the people going to these orgs are SJDs or post docs who are just 10x more qualified than the average JD.

I know plenty of students who are interning in these orgs. It's really easy if you are at a good school with decent grades to get an unpaid internship in these orgs. But getting a job there is nigh on impossible. Seriously.

Obv doing cross border transactional or crappy paid direct services in a foreign country are very different.

Chippy
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby Chippy » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:58 pm

PERSONALLY I THINK SPACE LAW IS A GOOD OPTION FOR THOSE THAT STRIKE OUT WHILE PURSUING INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW.

OLE MISS HAS A SPACE LAW JOURNAL
http://www.spacelaw.olemiss.edu/jsl/index.html

VERY PRESTIGIOUS

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:02 pm

Chippy wrote:PERSONALLY I THINK SPACE LAW IS A GOOD OPTION FOR THOSE THAT STRIKE OUT WHILE PURSUING INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW.

OLE MISS HAS A SPACE LAW JOURNAL
http://www.spacelaw.olemiss.edu/jsl/index.html

VERY PRESTIGIOUS


lol

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TatteredDignity
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby TatteredDignity » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:52 pm

We had a 1.5 hour lecture in orientation devoted to international law, and I don't think they would have done that if we can't get jobs in that field.

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fl0w
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby fl0w » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:01 pm

0LNewbie wrote:We had a 1.5 hour lecture in orientation devoted to international law, and I don't think they would have done that if we can't get jobs in that field.


No. You wouldn't think so, would you. And yet...

I mean there are def. opportunities to do things abroad at wustl. But see comments above about the actual market being narrow, international law not being well defined and meaning something different to everyone.

That being said, I am taking "international law" this semester. so we'll see what's up.

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kapachino
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby kapachino » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:07 pm

I'm of the opinion that the naive should be allowed to be naive. They'll just argue with anyone who tells them that "international law" doesn't exist, and that's just a huge waste of time. They'll find out eventually.

tronredo
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Re: PSA: You will not work in "international law"

Postby tronredo » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:12 pm

kapachino wrote:I'm of the opinion that the naive should be allowed to be naive. They'll just argue with anyone who tells them that "international law" doesn't exist, and that's just a huge waste of time. They'll find out eventually.


It is ridiculous that the same people on TLS berate anybody who posts an inquiry about international law. If you have no deep knowledge of the field or if you're not interested in it, then stay off rather than advertise your stupidity on this site. TLS is a site where pre-law and law students come to clear ambiguities. If you're post does not add any value to a question then refrain from posting some stupid bologna just to sound interesting. Who are you to tell someone that he/she has no future in international law? Too many amateurs on this website.




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