UVA vs Vanderbilt

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:09 pm

TheFactor wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Honestly, OP don't ED to either of these schools (certainly not Vandy--that's insane). It really isn't a good idea. If you can get into UVA ED then you can get into UNC, Wake Forest, UGA, or Bama with a good to great scholarship regardless. If you can do so go that route; especially if you can get UNC .


Eh, I don't know that I agree with this. I for one would take UVA/Duke at sticker over Wake, UNC, UGA or Bama with a full ride. I guess it depends on a person's goals, but I honestly wouldn't think twice about it.

Now I would probably choose a Bama, UGA or Wake with a full scholly over Vandy at sticker, but Vandy was pretty generous with money last year. Anything over 15k/year from Vandy and I'd pick it, too.

+1

I took Duke at close-to-sticker over full tuition at Wake and $$$ at UNC/Vandy.


If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

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deadpanic
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby deadpanic » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:10 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
deadpanic wrote:
Grizz wrote:Your GPA will probably disqualify you from Vandy right off the bat, unless your GPA was in engineering PR a hard science, and they don't have ED.


Yeah, I think you have a better shot at UVA (ED) than Vandy quite honestly.

if you are not set on big law, then taking UVA at sticker would probably be unwise. I think picking a strong regional T1 with a full ride would be a better deal. i'm just not familiar with the schools that would throw out a full ride with those numbers considering you're a splitter, but I'm sure there are a number that will. probably Bama, but I'm not sure I'd take Bama with a 170, unless you really want to be in AL.


I honestly don't even know that Bama will offer a full ride with a GPA that low.


Really? I would think they would still jump (full ride) at a 170 and a GPA that is not abysmal. They play the rankings game as good as anyone and want to bump up their LSAT median every year.

I would not go to SMU unless you just really, really, like Dallas. I don't think they give out full rides (could be wrong). Better off with the state schools like UNC, UGA, etc. since it sounds like the southeast is your preference.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:14 pm

deadpanic wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
deadpanic wrote:
Grizz wrote:Your GPA will probably disqualify you from Vandy right off the bat, unless your GPA was in engineering PR a hard science, and they don't have ED.


Yeah, I think you have a better shot at UVA (ED) than Vandy quite honestly.

if you are not set on big law, then taking UVA at sticker would probably be unwise. I think picking a strong regional T1 with a full ride would be a better deal. i'm just not familiar with the schools that would throw out a full ride with those numbers considering you're a splitter, but I'm sure there are a number that will. probably Bama, but I'm not sure I'd take Bama with a 170, unless you really want to be in AL.


I honestly don't even know that Bama will offer a full ride with a GPA that low.


Really? I would think they would still jump (full ride) at a 170 and a GPA that is not abysmal. They play the rankings game as good as anyone and want to bump up their LSAT median every year.

I would not go to SMU unless you just really, really, like Dallas. I don't think they give out full rides (could be wrong). Better off with the state schools like UNC, UGA, etc. since it sounds like the southeast is your preference.


This is good advice. UNC with a very large scholarship is probably his best bet.

Real Madrid
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby Real Madrid » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:59 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:Honestly, OP don't ED to either of these schools (certainly not Vandy--that's insane). It really isn't a good idea. If you can get into UVA ED then you can get into UNC, Wake Forest, UGA, or Bama with a good to great scholarship regardless. If you can do so go that route; especially if you can get UNC .


Eh, I don't know that I agree with this. I for one would take UVA/Duke at sticker over Wake, UNC, UGA or Bama with a full ride. I guess it depends on a person's goals, but I honestly wouldn't think twice about it.

Now I would probably choose a Bama, UGA or Wake with a full scholly over Vandy at sticker, but Vandy was pretty generous with money last year. Anything over 15k/year from Vandy and I'd pick it, too.

+1

I took Duke at close-to-sticker over full tuition at Wake and $$$ at UNC/Vandy.


If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.


How is a 50% chance of landing below median "very very likely"? 50% chance of something happening does not equal "very very likely." Also, landing below median at UVA or Duke - even at sticker - is not necessarily a death knell. There are plenty of IBR and LRAP options that can help one stay afloat, not to mention firm jobs available to a below-median T14 grad that would not be available to a below-median UNC grad.

And I completely disagree with the idea that landing below median at a UNC or whatever on a full ride doesn't come with much of a downside. What about the three years of income you just wasted on a useless degree and the cost of living you still had to pay? I'd call that a downside.

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whitman
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby whitman » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:03 am

A lot of love for UNC here. Kind of unusual.

colbarfran
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby colbarfran » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:12 am

If I could get a scholly to UNC I would love that and be happy going there. I'm not sur ehow likely that is though. My lsat is 170 and gpa 3.1. Law School Numbers doesn't have as much UNC data as they could, but perhaps because of their in state 70 percent quota it would be more competive for me.

I was also looking into University of WAshington - Seattle. Again though the info is not that great compared to better ranked schools so I don't know what the scholly deals might be for me. The out of state was only 25 k though and if I could qualify for in state at 2l that might be a good deal. Anybody know anything bout that school?

Real Madrid
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby Real Madrid » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:14 am

colbarfran wrote:If I could get a scholly to UNC I would love that and be happy going there. I'm not sur ehow likely that is though. My lsat is 170 and gpa 3.1. Law School Numbers doesn't have as much UNC data as they could, but perhaps because of their in state 70 percent quota it would be more competive for me.

I was also looking into University of WAshington - Seattle. Again though the info is not that great compared to better ranked schools so I don't know what the scholly deals might be for me. The out of state was only 25 k though and if I could qualify for in state at 2l that might be a good deal. Anybody know anything bout that school?


I don't know much about UW, but I do have a friend that is going there with similar numbers (170, ~3.3). The campus is beautiful from the pictures I've seen.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/washington-school-of-law.html

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whitman
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby whitman » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:17 am

UW doesn't give out like any aid, just FYI.

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lisjjen
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby lisjjen » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:03 am

whitman wrote:UW doesn't give out like any aid, just FYI.


titcr.

Also, I love the Pacific Northwest and want to retire here, but just be aware that UW is a fairly regional school. If you are wanting to live in the South, then I'd recommend going to a Southern school.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:16 am

After looking at LSN over the last few cycles, I'm not sure OP even gets into UNC, much less gets in with money.

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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby TheFactor » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:19 am

BruceWayne wrote:
If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

I would agree that Duke at sticker or near-sticker is risky, but this makes absolutely no sense.

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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby TheFactor » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:22 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:After looking at LSN over the last few cycles, I'm not sure OP even gets into UNC, much less gets in with money.

LSN is a pretty poor indicator of an applicant's real chances at UNC.

In-state applicants fair far, far better than OOS applicants.

colbarfran
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby colbarfran » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:15 am

TheFactor wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:After looking at LSN over the last few cycles, I'm not sure OP even gets into UNC, much less gets in with money.

LSN is a pretty poor indicator of an applicant's real chances at UNC.

In-state applicants fair far, far better than OOS applicants.


unfortunately I am applying out of state, I would have to aply early in the cycle and hope for the best. If I got in I would try and obtain residency for at least the last two years but i don't know how easy that is to do in North Carolina.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:28 pm

TheFactor wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

I would agree that Duke at sticker or near-sticker is risky, but this makes absolutely no sense.



It makes a lot of sense. It's called no debt with no job (bad grades with big scholly from UNC) being a lot better than a lot of debt with no job (bad grades at sticker at Duke/UVA).

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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby AffordablePrep » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:44 pm

Except Alabama none of these schools give out that much dough, and then OP is stuck in Alabama where nobody makes a ton anyway or almost nobody.

There is a risk. It's called 3 years and not being able to be a lawyer. If you accept the students at UVA and UNC are somewhat =, all that going to UNC really saves you would be about 80k as COL is the same, and they aren't giving a full ride. 80k to need to be in the top 25% to get a good job or 80k more for top 50%. i'd take the latter.

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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:49 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

I would agree that Duke at sticker or near-sticker is risky, but this makes absolutely no sense.



It makes a lot of sense. It's called no debt with no job (bad grades with big scholly from UNC) being a lot better than a lot of debt with no job (bad grades at sticker at Duke/UVA).


I agree with this. OP, Use a balancing test to find the best blend for your goals in terms of law school prestige vs. money.

Paying six figures, let alone full price, for a law degree anywhere outside of T3ish (HYS) is reckless and foolhardy as you would be playing a high stakes gamble. Anyone who tells you anything else won't be there for you if things don't work out and you owe $100,000+ and are looking at jobs that pay $30,000.

AffordablePrep
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby AffordablePrep » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:57 pm

a little too cynical. this is a top 10. yu have to take some manageable risks to get ahead.

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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:01 pm

T13 is worth sticker (and you can get rid of Cornell from that list and say T12 if you like :) ).

While it would be ideal to attend HYS, just because you cannot get into those schools does not mean that you are foolish for attending a different elite school at close to sticker. Paying sticker at any school may be intimidating but for the schools I listed, you are making a +EV bet to being able to pay off your loans and have a respectable career in the legal sector (e.g. 50%+ of landing BigLaw, clerkship, etc.)

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BruceWayne
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:06 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:a little too cynical. this is a top 10. yu have to take some manageable risks to get ahead.


This was definitely true a few years ago, but it's not now. You have to understand that outside of HYS, firms just aren't going deep into classes anymore. The hiring model has changed. They simply don't need many new/young lawyers anymore.

AffordablePrep
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby AffordablePrep » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:14 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
AffordablePrep wrote:a little too cynical. this is a top 10. yu have to take some manageable risks to get ahead.


This was definitely true a few years ago, but it's not now. You have to understand that outside of HYS, firms just aren't going deep into classes anymore. The hiring model has changed. They simply don't need many new/young lawyers anymore.

so you're saying 90% of people come out unemployed?

even according to the cynics 50% of people graduating don't get legal jobs so why would it be over 50% at a top 10? are law firms striving to hire less competent people?

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby Stringer Bell » Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:38 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Do you like SMU? They place well in Texas and could probably give you big money.


I think you are kind of missing the point. The SMU splitter scholarship is barely more than half tuition. For somebody borrowing the full amount SMU really isn't less risky since they are still going to be effed without finding a good paying job or one that qualifies for PSLF and this is much harder to accomplish than it would be at a school like UVA.

Real Madrid
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby Real Madrid » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:24 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

I would agree that Duke at sticker or near-sticker is risky, but this makes absolutely no sense.



It makes a lot of sense. It's called no debt with no job (bad grades with big scholly from UNC) being a lot better than a lot of debt with no job (bad grades at sticker at Duke/UVA).


I agree with this. OP, Use a balancing test to find the best blend for your goals in terms of law school prestige vs. money.

Paying six figures, let alone full price, for a law degree anywhere outside of T3ish (HYS) is reckless and foolhardy as you would be playing a high stakes gamble. Anyone who tells you anything else won't be there for you if things don't work out and you owe $100,000+ and are looking at jobs that pay $30,000.


No offense, but why is it always the people that were not accepted to any T14s telling others that T14s are not worth sticker? This post seriously sounds like sour grapes to me.

$$$$$$
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby $$$$$$ » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:42 pm

I don't agree with the notion that if you arent above median at Duke/UVA you have no chance of landing a good job. I know plenty of people below median with firm jobs, and as someone below median (fairly well below), I have had a significant number of interviews and call back interviews already. It's not a fun place to be and I spent all summer networking with alumni, but going to a top 10 school has gotten me in the door and allowed me to show my strengths. I even received callbacks before coming back to school from firms coming to OGI. So telling someone that is below median, or bottom 1/3, that they won't get a decent job is pretty dumb.

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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby TheFactor » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:32 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

I would agree that Duke at sticker or near-sticker is risky, but this makes absolutely no sense.



It makes a lot of sense. It's called no debt with no job (bad grades with big scholly from UNC) being a lot better than a lot of debt with no job (bad grades at sticker at Duke/UVA).

Saying it is "very, very likely" that someone will end up below median makes no sense. Assuming that you will have no job if you are below median at a T14 is also pretty naive. Taking any school at sticker is risky ITE, but most would agree that with good private sector prospects and LRAP/IBR, a T14 at close-to-sticker is still a good investment.

TheFactor
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Re: UVA vs Vanderbilt

Postby TheFactor » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:34 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
TheFactor wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
If you make this choice and don't pull off median or higher then this doesn't work out well at all. And that's very, very, likely. There isn't much downside to pulling off below median grades at a place like UNC if you didn't pay to go there. There's a huge downside to pulling off below median grades at Duke with sticker debt, especially if you end up bottom 1/3 or bottom 10 percent.

I would agree that Duke at sticker or near-sticker is risky, but this makes absolutely no sense.



It makes a lot of sense. It's called no debt with no job (bad grades with big scholly from UNC) being a lot better than a lot of debt with no job (bad grades at sticker at Duke/UVA).


I agree with this. OP, Use a balancing test to find the best blend for your goals in terms of law school prestige vs. money.

Paying six figures, let alone full price, for a law degree anywhere outside of T3ish (HYS) is reckless and foolhardy as you would be playing a high stakes gamble. Anyone who tells you anything else won't be there for you if things don't work out and you owe $100,000+ and are looking at jobs that pay $30,000.

lol hyperbole much?




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