URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

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fstgds
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URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Hi guys,

I am fairly new to the forum and I am hoping that you guys can offer some advice. I just received an acceptance email from Fordham. Fordham was sort of a dream school and I was on the wait list for months so I was thrilled to receive it. But...I have a full scholarship from Cardozo's full time program and Fordham's program is an evening program (with the option of transferring to full time after the first year). This decision may be a bit easier, if I didn't have 6 figures in debt (from undergrad and an MBA). I did not receive a penny from Fordham but its so hard for me to say no...

Any advice??? :?

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Robespierre
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby Robespierre » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:48 pm

Are there stipulations attached to the Dozo scholarship?

How much would your grand total debt be if you went to Fordham?

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NYC Law
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby NYC Law » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:58 pm

Cardozo will probably be the better choice in this instance, especially if you don't have a full time job.

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:00 pm

No stipulations, its guaranteed for all 3 years (shocking I know...).

Total debt for Fordham would be another $80,000-$100,000 and I already have about $150 in debt from previous degrees.

Thank you for your help!

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:03 pm

I do have a full time job although I do worry about working full time and going to the evening program. Also, I would transfer to the part time program after my first year and probably have to take out loans...or maybe stay part time but then I would worry about gaining legal experience, etc.

Again, thanks for any advice...

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sunynp
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:17 pm

What is the difference in your total cost of attendance at these two programs?

If you can go to Fordham without taking on more debt, that is probably your best choice.

sparty99
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sparty99 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:29 pm

if Cardozo is guranteed tuition, why wouldn't you go there?

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Grizz
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:31 pm

Holy crap $150k in debt? Don't go. You're still gonna be probably $200k in the hole after.

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:05 pm

I know, $150k in debt is a lot which is why I am hesitant about taking on more debt with Fordham. If I were the typical undergrad student, without a secondary degree (and the debt that comes along with it) then I would take Fordham without a second thought...

Thanks for the advice everyone! :D

sparty99
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sparty99 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:09 pm

Did you not learn anything in your MBA classes? Take other people's money. Go to Cardozo and don't even consider Fordham....

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:09 pm

Sparty99 - I am taking into consideration that Fordham is the better school (in terms of rankings) and I am concerned if that would have an effect long term (in terms of employment opportunities, etc). This is the only reason why I considered taking on more debt with Fordham as opposed to the free ride from Cardozo. I just want to be in the best position possible upon graduation in terms of a decent paying job in which I can afford to manage whatever debt I have. So I wonder if taking the extra debt from Fordham would be better because I would receive a higher paying job upon graduation. This is my thinking - could be completely wrong which is why I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

scammedhard
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby scammedhard » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:09 pm

fstgds wrote:No stipulations, its guaranteed for all 3 years (shocking I know...).

Total debt for Fordham would be another $80,000-$100,000 and I already have about $150 in debt from previous degrees.

Thank you for your help!

Sure, just put it into the taxpayers' tab.

sparty99
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sparty99 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:22 pm

fstgds wrote:Sparty99 - I am taking into consideration that Fordham is the better school (in terms of rankings) and I am concerned if that would have an effect long term (in terms of employment opportunities, etc). This is the only reason why I considered taking on more debt with Fordham as opposed to the free ride from Cardozo. I just want to be in the best position possible upon graduation in terms of a decent paying job in which I can afford to manage whatever debt I have. So I wonder if taking the extra debt from Fordham would be better because I would receive a higher paying job upon graduation. This is my thinking - could be completely wrong which is why I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks!


Bro, you need to get serious. LIKE NOW. You are already $150k in debt. Did you know student loan debt can not be erased in bankruptcy unless you are permanently disabled? And you want to add another $100k to that total? Did you know that your interest rates will be on that tuition and tuition will increase every year. $250,000 in debt upon graduation. AND you will be in the most expensive city in the USA. You will have even more pressure to land a $160,000 job. You are going to do this just because a magazine picks Fordham over Cardozo? You will be in NYC regardless. What you do with that is up to you. If you do well at Cardozo, doors will open. Do not pick sticker at Fordham. In fact, ask Fordham to match your scholarship.

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sunynp
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:28 pm

I don't think you should go to law school at all. You need to get a job with the degrees you have and pay back your debt.

You need to take stock of the reality of your present situation instead of worrying about your hypothetical law career.

You should not borrow any more money for school. If you have to go, go with the scholarship. I don't know what kind of job you can get from Cardozo to pay for the debt you already have. I don't know what job you can get from Fordham to pay back $250,000 in debt.

You need to spend time with the career officers at Cardozo and find out what jobs the current 3Ls got from there. And what jobs last year's graduating class had after attending Cardozo. You need to make them provide you with information because you need to see what the job market for Cardozo grads at median is like. Don't expect it to be much better than the job market you have now with your current degrees.

I know this is harsh. But the job market for lawyers is terrible. Please do some serious research on your expected job prospects prior to going to either school.

sparty99
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sparty99 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:33 pm

sunynp wrote:I don't think you should go to law school at all. You need to get a job with the degrees you have and pay back your debt.

You need to take stock of the reality of your present situation instead of worrying about your hypothetical law career.

You should not borrow any more money for school. If you have to go, go with the scholarship. I don't know what kind of job you can get from Cardozo to pay for the debt you already have. I don't know what job you can get from Fordham to pay back $250,000 in debt.

You need to spend time with the career officers at Cardozo and find out what jobs the current 3Ls got from there. And what jobs last year's graduating class had after attending Cardozo. You need to make them provide you with information because you need to see what the job market for Cardozo grads at median is like. Don't expect it to be much better than the job market you have now with your current degrees.

I know this is harsh. But the job market for lawyers is terrible. Please do some serious research on your expected job prospects prior to going to either school.


+1

firemed
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:40 pm

I would go to Cardozo.

It isn't the best in NYC by any shot but going for free without any stipulations makes it well worth while in my opinion.



Despite what sunynp says you can get a job from Cardozo if you are top third, possibly even top half if the economy ever improves.

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Grizz
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:44 pm

fstgds wrote:I know, $150k in debt is a lot which is why I am hesitant about taking on more debt with Fordham. If I were the typical undergrad student, without a secondary degree (and the debt that comes along with it) then I would take Fordham without a second thought...

Thanks for the advice everyone! :D

I meant don't go

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sunynp
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:50 pm

firemed wrote:I would go to Cardozo.

It isn't the best in NYC by any shot but going for free without any stipulations makes it well worth while in my opinion.



Despite what sunynp says you can get a job from Cardozo if you are top third, possibly even top half if the economy ever improves.


What I said was that he needs to research the question of jobs. He should assume he will be median. The competition for jobs in New York is intense.

PS I think everyone should research the job market before they go to school. OP is in a worse financial position than most 0Ls because he has so much debt. He has to be sure to be able to find a job after he graduates that will repay his existing loans. If he cannot do that, or seems unlikely to be able to do that, he needs to look at other careers.

firemed
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:20 pm

sunynp wrote:
firemed wrote:I would go to Cardozo.

It isn't the best in NYC by any shot but going for free without any stipulations makes it well worth while in my opinion.



Despite what sunynp says you can get a job from Cardozo if you are top third, possibly even top half if the economy ever improves.


What I said was that he needs to research the question of jobs. He should assume he will be median. The competition for jobs in New York is intense.

PS I think everyone should research the job market before they go to school. OP is in a worse financial position than most 0Ls because he has so much debt. He has to be sure to be able to find a job after he graduates that will repay his existing loans. If he cannot do that, or seems unlikely to be able to do that, he needs to look at other careers.


Fair enough. I think I misunderstood your post.

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Robespierre
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby Robespierre » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:59 pm

Dozo, no doubt. The post-Fordham debt would be unconscionable. Even if you got a Biglaw job, the loan payments would chew up a huge chunk of your take-home.

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thecilent
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby thecilent » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:05 pm

If you must go next year, 'dozo and it's not even close. Lol @ 150k in debt from ugrad and whatever else and still wanting to get a jd. Sry but seriously

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:09 pm

Thanks for the kind advice Robespierre!

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:11 pm

Thanks firemed!

fstgds
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby fstgds » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:20 pm

sunynp thanks for the advice. I did do research with the Cardozo and Fordham career centers as well as speaking with a number of 3Ls about their options and both are pretty promising. I would say that the Fordham student seems to have better options but only by a minority and of course I can't consider that the same will be the case for me.

Also, I have a well paying job and I am able to manage my debt so thats not the problem now especially with the new loan repayment programs. And we all have to keep in mind that the job market sucks for EVERYONE, not just lawyers. Going to law school isn't necessarily about only about money to me. But thats another conversation, for another post. But thanks for the advice. I do think Cardozo is the best option but thought I'd get a second opinion from the message boards. Point taken.

keg411
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Re: URGENT: Fordham evening program v. Cardozo full time

Postby keg411 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:40 pm

fstgds wrote:Also, I have a well paying job and I am able to manage my debt


WTF? Don't give up your well-paying job for places like Fordham and Cardozo.




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