Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

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Emory v Fordham (READ BELOW)

Emory
3
21%
Fordham
11
79%
 
Total votes: 14

ballpop
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Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby ballpop » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:09 pm

TOP NOTE-All of this will be coming out of personal, family, and 529 savings. The 529 is about 25k and will probably never be used (at least until my brother or I have kids). I WANT to be a lawyer (hell, I would rather be a small firm lawyer than almost any other job in the world)

My goal markets (ranked in tiers)
NYC
DC
Atlanta
Boston
Northern NJ
Philly
Anywhere else in the Northeast/New England (though maybe if I move to Atlanta, I could see myself liking Austin, Nashville, Charlotte etc)

Good job > Terrible job in any of the markets, but decent job in NYC is slightly > good job in ATL

Not sure about WHAT I want to do exactly, but firm work (not necessarily big firms, also specialty, litigation, IP lit, criminal defense, securities, maybe immigration, class action...as you can tell I am undecided but no med-mal) is big, as would be working for federal agencies (DOJ, SEC, CDC, EPA). No real interest in clerkships, academia, at the moment, and probably not PI unless it is on the ACLU, SPLC level

CoA (REMEMBER NO DEBT, just out of pocket) (nyc is a bit cheaper as I have lived here for a while, know the city and have family near)

Fordham-~200k
Emory-~155k
From NJ, have (mostly non lawyer) links in NYC, but I have ALREADY started cultivating links with NYC Emory lawyers etc
Last edited by ballpop on Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

tourdeforcex
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby tourdeforcex » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:29 pm

so it comes down to whether you want to drop an incremental 60k for fordham.

it seems like you really want NYC. did you visit the schools? where do you think you would be more comfortable studying? how portable is the emory degree?

tough choice. i hope the questions and its answers are helpful in your decision.

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bk1
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby bk1 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:31 pm

I'd take Fordham in your instance.

ballpop
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby ballpop » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:09 pm

I have NOT seen Fordham, but I did see Emory and loved it as a school. I also have lived near Fordham Law for two years and have family near it earlier, and I know it isn't known for it's campus/building. TI:GER program, the actual campus, the slowness of Atlanta (and hence the increased ability to study) and the change of pace for someone who will probably live in NYC for most/all of the rest of his life are appealing, as is the SMALL class size (around 220-240 versus 400-420)

Emory seems to place pretty well in NYC (second biggest market) and DC (third) which are my 1-2 options, whereas Fordham basically limits me to NYC, and basically is an all in bet on one city....

Effectively, everything about my three years there leans to Emory, but my choice of market, to Fordham

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bk1
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby bk1 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:12 pm

ballpop wrote:Emory seems to place pretty well in NYC (second biggest market) and DC (third) which are my 1-2 options, whereas Fordham basically limits me to NYC, and basically is an all in bet on one city....


Emory places far worse in NYC than Fordham and neither of them place well in DC so the point is moot. Yes, it's all in bet on one city, but it's an all in bet on the biggest legal market in the country by a fucking parsec.

ballpop wrote:Effectively, everything about my three years there leans to Emory, but my choice of market, to Fordham


The several decades you will spend practicing law are far more important than the 3 years you spend at a professional school. Fordham will serve you better in your job hunt so you should go to Fordham.

ballpop
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby ballpop » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:16 pm

Wow you really are a dick, thanks for the advice. The reason I talked about the quality of the school experience is because it would seemingly set me up for success more. The crush of NYC versus being able to go to a school gym, relax on campus and study etc etc etc....

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bk1
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby bk1 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22 pm

ballpop wrote:Wow you really are a dick, thanks for the advice. The reason I talked about the quality of the school experience is because it would seemingly set me up for success more. The crush of NYC versus being able to go to a school gym, relax on campus and study etc etc etc....


You really think that those things would have a significant impact on your grades or that they are so desirable that it is worth giving up Fordham and Fordham's NYC connections for?

And you find NYC crushing but you want to work there? I don't get that.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:23 pm

Neither one is that great of an option. Even if you don't take loans, you are burning far too much money for these two institutions. While you may say that you just want be a lawyer no matter what, you can't know that for certain. It's not possible. You may want to go to law school no matter what, but that's not a good approach to the legal profession.

Anyway,

It sounds like you ultimately don't care where you practice. Your OP implies you want NYC, but then suggests everywhere else in the northeast and southeast. Thus, it appears that you only marginally want NYC more than other markets.

That being said, you aren't getting big law from either. You don't seem interested in that, and that's a very good thing. So...that leaves...employment in general. The two schools seem to place students equally into high paying jobs, especially since the economy went bad. How the schools will compare in two years, no one knows.

Assuming your mention of connects to NYC meant ties (along with your ties to NJ), I would likely go with Emory. You have ties to NYC, not 100% on NYC, don't really care about location employment as long as you have an acceptable job, and Emory is cheaper.

Fordham would be better for NYC, but not much else. If you encountered a lot of difficulty in NYC from Fordham, you would have issues breaking into a different job market. By attending Emory, you have access to Atlanta and your NYC/NJ ties would expand the job markets you have access to. Once again, the cheaper price of Emory is the nail in the coffin, in my opinion.

Also, nothing in the above post was meant to suggest that you should pay these prices for these schools.

ballpop
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby ballpop » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:01 am

The crush /= crushing. If you can't see why Atlanta MIGHT be a better atmosphere than NYC to study, maybe you need to visit both places?

Aberzombie---really? I don't want to go to law school "no matter what"---I want to be a lawyer because of my experience in the legal field (interned in a law firm, interning for a foreign judge) and because literally even the dry stuff is interesting, which wasn't true for my past careers...

Also...NOT getting big law from either? Emory has been placing 27% or so into NLJ250+A3 (in an legal job market worse than it is now) and Fordham 29%, so while no means assured, I don't think >1/4 is an unequivocal no...

In any case, thanks for the totally relevant commentary---I wasn't asking for investment advice. I already want to be a lawyer, and I am willing to invest hundreds of thousands into it (and if you think I won't make it back over a 30-50 year career, especially not accruing interest, well, that's you, not to mention I would rather practice law than most other jobs even if they pay better)

I already turned down near full rides at Brooklyn, Cardozo, and Seton Hall. I am still on the waitlist at BU, and I think Texas

ballpop
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby ballpop » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:05 am

Repriced as I forgot I about adding car costs in Atlanta, which I need to buy and maintain

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nmcdgt
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby nmcdgt » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:35 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Neither one is that great of an option. Even if you don't take loans, you are burning far too much money for these two institutions. While you may say that you just want be a lawyer no matter what, you can't know that for certain. It's not possible. You may want to go to law school no matter what, but that's not a good approach to the legal profession.

Anyway,

It sounds like you ultimately don't care where you practice. Your OP implies you want NYC, but then suggests everywhere else in the northeast and southeast. Thus, it appears that you only marginally want NYC more than other markets.

That being said, you aren't getting big law from either. You don't seem interested in that, and that's a very good thing. So...that leaves...employment in general. The two schools seem to place students equally into high paying jobs, especially since the economy went bad. How the schools will compare in two years, no one knows.

Assuming your mention of connects to NYC meant ties (along with your ties to NJ), I would likely go with Emory. You have ties to NYC, not 100% on NYC, don't really care about location employment as long as you have an acceptable job, and Emory is cheaper.

Fordham would be better for NYC, but not much else. If you encountered a lot of difficulty in NYC from Fordham, you would have issues breaking into a different job market. By attending Emory, you have access to Atlanta and your NYC/NJ ties would expand the job markets you have access to. Once again, the cheaper price of Emory is the nail in the coffin, in my opinion.

Also, nothing in the above post was meant to suggest that you should pay these prices for these schools.


Uhm, at median maybe not, but to say that you can't get biglaw from Emory and Fordham is ridiculous. No they aren't going to place 50% of their class in BigLaw jobs, but you definitely have a shot in the top 20-25%.

As far as the OP goes, putting 50k extra to go all in for NYC wouldn't make sense to me. Although you prefer NYC you are open to other markets, and if you do well at Emory you have good options around the southeast, as well as a fighting chance at NY/DC with very good grades. Emory IMO.

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Robespierre
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby Robespierre » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:15 am

Seems like you are treating the "better school experience" of Emory as a factor. I wouldn't do that.

First, economic times in the legal profession are too tough to give that stuff much weight. You're not going to have a T14 degree to flash upon graduation, so in this perilous environment you desperately need to go wherever your chances of getting a J-O-B are maximized. That consideration should dwarf all others.

Second, the law school experience is pretty much the same all over. You go to class, study for hours, stress over grades, hang out with the other law students, and then disappear over the summer and Holidays. It doesn't vary that much by school.

Third, while I like Atlanta a lot, it's not really the kind of unique or exciting city that should change your mind. Las Vegas has the glitz. San Francisco has the romance. Honolulu and Miami have the weather/beaches. Atlanta's just a nice city. (And Emory isn't even in the heart of Atlanta; just a nice suburb that looks like nice suburbs everywhere.) And of course, living in New York has advantages of its own.

I'd go with Fordham for the better placement in your preferred market. That's well worth the extra 50K, especially since you don't have to borrow it.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:59 am

bk1 wrote:I'd take Fordham in your instance.

bk1 wrote:Emory places far worse in NYC than Fordham and neither of them place well in DC so the point is moot. Yes, it's all in bet on one city, but it's an all in bet on the biggest legal market in the country by a fucking parsec.

bk1 wrote:The several decades you will spend practicing law are far more important than the 3 years you spend at a professional school. Fordham will serve you better in your job hunt so you should go to Fordham.

These responses are all credited. BK knows what he's talking about, and you'd be wise to listen to him.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v Emory (45k)--no debt just savings

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:50 pm

ballpop wrote:TOP NOTE-All of this will be coming out of personal, family, and 529 savings. The 529 is about 25k and will probably never be used (at least until my brother or I have kids). I WANT to be a lawyer (hell, I would rather be a small firm lawyer than almost any other job in the world)

Banned. Alt of bigkahuna2020.




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