UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

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allthehelpicanget
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby allthehelpicanget » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:58 am

Is the "prestige" of WUSTL worth $60,000 more or is that just plain crazy? I really wish someone from UIUC could also give me some insight about the school. I loved how everyone in the WUSTL area is very friendly and willing to help the incoming students.

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romothesavior
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:15 am

allthehelpicanget wrote:Is the "prestige" of WUSTL worth $60,000 more or is that just plain crazy? I really wish someone from UIUC could also give me some insight about the school. I loved how everyone in the WUSTL area is very friendly and willing to help the incoming students.

No, that is crazy absent a good reason for going to WUSTL. I took WUSTL over UIUC for a difference of about 30-40k, but I did it because I really want to be in STL long term, and because I was tired of living in central Illinois and desperately needed out of the area for a few years. A lot of people told me I was crazy. Really no reason to pick it in your situation, unless you have some huge reason for wanting to be here. As far as job prospects go, I can't think of two schools that are more peerlike than WUSTL/UIUC.

Have you tried negotiating with WUSTL? And what are your numbers?

allthehelpicanget
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby allthehelpicanget » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:16 am

I think WUSTL ran out of money for scholarships this year already...or so I've heard from someone that asked their office.

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mattviphky
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby mattviphky » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:29 am

YOU need to call their office, maybe that person didn't have a 20k scholly to UIUC. Also, the prestige of WUSTL might have a slight edge, but the athletics of UIUC should more than make up for this

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PDaddy
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:43 am

bk1 wrote:They are peer schools. Illinois is far cheaper. This is a no brainer.



Agreed...they are pretty equal. UIUC is a pretty badass school. Go!

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PDaddy
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:49 am

Rule11 wrote:Of course UIUC, but you shouldn't be going to either school if biglaw is an important part of your goals calculus. Chances are very low coming from either one (in either case not nearly high enough to justify cost of attendance).


Actually, UIUC does fairly well in Chicago, after you get past about 7 of the T14, including HY.

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Helmholtz
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:01 am

PDaddy wrote:
Rule11 wrote:Of course UIUC, but you shouldn't be going to either school if biglaw is an important part of your goals calculus. Chances are very low coming from either one (in either case not nearly high enough to justify cost of attendance).


Actually, UIUC does fairly well in Chicago, after you get past about 7 of the T14, including HY.


Nobody should ever, ever go to UIUC with Chicago biglaw as their post-grad plan. You just can't count on being one of those one-in-five students who manage to make it.

allamerican73
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby allamerican73 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:26 am

Helmholtz wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Rule11 wrote:Of course UIUC, but you shouldn't be going to either school if biglaw is an important part of your goals calculus. Chances are very low coming from either one (in either case not nearly high enough to justify cost of attendance).


Actually, UIUC does fairly well in Chicago, after you get past about 7 of the T14, including HY.


Nobody should ever, ever go to UIUC with Chicago biglaw as their post-grad plan. You just can't count on being one of those one-in-five students who manage to make it.



This just simply isn't true. UIUC is a feeder school for Chicago biglaw. Not everyone makes it to Kirkland or Sidley, but there are plenty of biglaw (and midlaw) opportunities for the top half of the class. Certainly equal to any other law school outside T-14.

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JCougar
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby JCougar » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:26 am

There is no way you should go to WUSTL unless they match your scholarship. Trying to get "Biglaw" from either school is a gamble for all but 10-20% of the class. And students have far less control over their law school grades than you would think. You can't just be smart and work harder than everybody else and expect to succeed. You just have to be the kind of person that responds in a way that gets you more points on a law exam than your peers. And it's impossible to tell if you have the mind fit for that kind of response style until after you get your first semester grades back...which is conveniently delayed until the school cashes your check for second semester tuition.

If you go to any school not in the T6 these days and have no previous work experience (even work experience won't make that much of a difference), you should plan on a career of insurance defense or document review...which means take on as little debt as you possibly can.

Sincerely,
a WUSTL 2L

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Kilpatrick
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:31 am

allamerican73 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Rule11 wrote:Of course UIUC, but you shouldn't be going to either school if biglaw is an important part of your goals calculus. Chances are very low coming from either one (in either case not nearly high enough to justify cost of attendance).


Actually, UIUC does fairly well in Chicago, after you get past about 7 of the T14, including HY.


Nobody should ever, ever go to UIUC with Chicago biglaw as their post-grad plan. You just can't count on being one of those one-in-five students who manage to make it.



This just simply isn't true. UIUC is a feeder school for Chicago biglaw. Not everyone makes it to Kirkland or Sidley, but there are plenty of biglaw (and midlaw) opportunities for the top half of the class. Certainly equal to any other law school outside T-14.


Image

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JCougar
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby JCougar » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:34 am

allamerican73 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Rule11 wrote:Of course UIUC, but you shouldn't be going to either school if biglaw is an important part of your goals calculus. Chances are very low coming from either one (in either case not nearly high enough to justify cost of attendance).


Actually, UIUC does fairly well in Chicago, after you get past about 7 of the T14, including HY.


Nobody should ever, ever go to UIUC with Chicago biglaw as their post-grad plan. You just can't count on being one of those one-in-five students who manage to make it.



This just simply isn't true. UIUC is a feeder school for Chicago biglaw. Not everyone makes it to Kirkland or Sidley, but there are plenty of biglaw (and midlaw) opportunities for the top half of the class. Certainly equal to any other law school outside T-14.


This is just BS. Recent NALP statistics do not comport.

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Helmholtz
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:15 am

allamerican73 wrote:This just simply isn't true. UIUC is a feeder school for Chicago biglaw. Not everyone makes it to Kirkland or Sidley, but there are plenty of biglaw (and midlaw) opportunities for the top half of the class. Certainly equal to any other law school outside T-14.


Yeah, this is actually hilarious and more than likely sarcasm, but you never know.

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blurbz
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby blurbz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:21 am

allamerican73 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Rule11 wrote:Of course UIUC, but you shouldn't be going to either school if biglaw is an important part of your goals calculus. Chances are very low coming from either one (in either case not nearly high enough to justify cost of attendance).


Actually, UIUC does fairly well in Chicago, after you get past about 7 of the T14, including HY.


Nobody should ever, ever go to UIUC with Chicago biglaw as their post-grad plan. You just can't count on being one of those one-in-five students who manage to make it.



This just simply isn't true. UIUC is a feeder school for Chicago biglaw. Not everyone makes it to Kirkland or Sidley, but there are plenty of biglaw (and midlaw) opportunities for the top half of the class. Certainly equal to any other law school outside T-14.


As an Illinois student who loves my schol and wouldn't want to go anywhere else (and chose it over WUSTL for money reasons), I am here to tell you that this is false.

OP: You should go to Illinois because it's cheaper and because the two schools are peers, you'll have roughly the same job prospects. That being said, there are not good biglaw opportunities in Chicago for the top half of the class here. Maybe the top 25% gets a look, but that's about it. Sure, people below that line get hired (and people above it don't) but it's unfair to suggest that the top 50% has a "good" shot at landing 160k in Chicago. There is truth to the statement that we place better than ANY non-T14 in Chicago, though--that is 100% accurate (WUSTL included--though they beat us on the coasts).

Thanks for the WUSTL-->Illinois love in this thread, too: We really are peer schools and it doesn't make sense to choose one over the other based on anything other than money or a good reason to be in either location.

OP asked for a take on Illinois from an Illinois student....I'm at work so I don't have the time to write something really long and poetic, but I can tell you that I'm very happy here. I've made some great friends and have been overwhelmingly impressed by the professors. Both because they are incredibly bright and accomplished and because they are always easily accessible. Champaign is no St. Louis--that's for sure--but it's not a bad place. I was busy enough 1L year that I didn't notice that there's not a ton going on. There are some great bars, a surprisingly good food scene, great undergrad sports, excellent athletic facilities (included in student fees for law students), and you're a 2 hour drive from Chicago, 3 from St. Louis, and 2 from Indianapolis. Like I said, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Edit: If Helm is right and that post is sarcasm, then I'm a fool for falling for it!

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emciosn
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby emciosn » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:27 am

I'm at WUSTL and I would say that with the scholarship you should go to UIUC. Wash U has a ton of money, I would think that it would at least be worth a call to the admissions office to ask about a scholly. Sometimes money frees up late if a kid gets off the waitlist at Northwestern or something like that. If the scholarship money was the same, I would say WUSTL has a slight edge but since that is not the case go to UIUC.

allthehelpicanget
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby allthehelpicanget » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:14 pm

Hmm I always thought that UIUC did place very well in Chicago. Could any current UIUC student tell me how OCI went for them and what kind of jobs they had lined up for their 2L summer?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:17 pm

Illinois does do well in Chicago but it's not placing the top HALF in Chicago biglaw. That's absurd.

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blurbz
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby blurbz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:25 pm

Yeah we definitely are a feeder for Chicago, but it's just not a full 50% that gets biglaw. Most of our graduates are able to find JD-required work in Chicago if they want it, but the biglaw boat isn't open to everyone here... Like I said before, we place better than any non-T14 in Chicago biglaw, so if that's your goal you have a better shot coming from Illinois than any other non-T14 school. Just don't come in thinking 1/2 of the class ends up making 160k in Chicago.

In your position -- 20k from Illinois and WUSTL at sticker -- you should take Illinois, no doubt.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:33 pm

allthehelpicanget wrote:Hmm I always thought that UIUC did place very well in Chicago. Could any current UIUC student tell me how OCI went for them and what kind of jobs they had lined up for their 2L summer?

It used to place fairly well in Chicago. Now it's having the problem most law schools are having, including T1 schools: There just aren't as many jobs as there used to be.

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JCougar
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby JCougar » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:27 pm

allthehelpicanget wrote:Hmm I always thought that UIUC did place very well in Chicago. Could any current UIUC student tell me how OCI went for them and what kind of jobs they had lined up for their 2L summer?


Half is an exaggeration. 25% is probably pushing the limit these days. There's virtually a 75% chance you will be locked out of Chicago Biglaw if you go to either school these days, depending on soft factors. The Chicago market is really struggling.

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romothesavior
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:37 pm

JCougar wrote:
allthehelpicanget wrote:Hmm I always thought that UIUC did place very well in Chicago. Could any current UIUC student tell me how OCI went for them and what kind of jobs they had lined up for their 2L summer?


Half is an exaggeration. 25% is probably pushing the limit these days. There's virtually a 75% chance you will be locked out of Chicago Biglaw if you go to either school these days, depending on soft factors. The Chicago market is really struggling.

+1, Chicago is a struggle.

Part of it depends on how you define "biglaw" though. Vault firms? Less than 10%. NLJ 250 firms? Maybe 20-25% of the entire class will get it (not just in Chicago). But that seems arbitrary as well, because there are some 100k+ jobs in Chicago (and other midwestern cities) that are non-NLJ jobs.

Median at either school will be employable. Will you be making 6-figures? Probably not. Good chance you'll be in the 40-60 range (and that is still pretty good compared to a lot of T20 grads these days). And like jcougar said, you have no way of knowing where you'll finish. So let's assume median. Better take that 60k in scholly money.

allthehelpicanget
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Re: UIUC (20,000) or WUSTL (sticker) WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Postby allthehelpicanget » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:53 am

Oh no. Why don't we all start a law school consulting service and earn some extra money on the side? Anybody up for that? It wouldn't be tough and you would do the exact work you were doing here on TLS except you'd get paid a little money on the side (maybe even enough to pay rent after we get things running.)




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