HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

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foreversport45
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HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby foreversport45 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:41 pm

I was just accepted to Chicago Law off of the wait list. I was planning on attending Michigan Law until now, but am not sure anymore. In terms of finances, I am out of state for Michigan so the cost for both schools is really comparable (my scholarships to both is similar too).

I want to do international law, ideally working abroad for a few years right after I graduate. Based on my research, it seems like Michigan is the better school for my interests but, based on those who I have talked to, Chicago's reputation is stronger. I would rather be in the city, but at the same time Michigan Law School's atmosphere is much more relaxed and friendly. Also, the way that the law firms ranked Michigan over Chicago is beginning to weigh on me.

I have to decide by Tuesday so any help on this would be great. Just let me know which school you would pick and why. Thanks!

random5483
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby random5483 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:08 pm

Both are awesome law schools. With that said, the legal field is very "prestige" conscious and Chicago is the more prestigious school. Metrics like better "X" program are rarely important when picking a law school (some exceptions). Not familiar enough with your interest to give you a definitive answer, but I would strongly lean towards picking Chicago over Michigan.

duckmoney
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby duckmoney » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:33 pm

Chicago is the better the school for any field of law + similar cost + no major geographical difference = why wouldn't you go to Chicago?

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glewz
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby glewz » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:43 pm

Hands down Chicago

foreversport45
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby foreversport45 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:44 pm

duckmoney wrote:Chicago is the better the school for any field of law + similar cost + no major geographical difference = why wouldn't you go to Chicago?


But is it? Now I know the rankings do not mean a ton, but they still exist for a reason. Almost across the board, Michigan is the better school for International Law, which I am primarily interested in. Also, based on what I have read on US News, law firms rank students out of Michigan as better than out of Chicago.

I am just trying to figure out if Chicago's reputation is so much better than Michigan's that I should pass on a stronger international program and a better atmosphere (Chicago is the place where fun goes to die + surrounding area is terrible) at Michigan.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:49 pm

foreversport45 wrote:
duckmoney wrote:Chicago is the better the school for any field of law + similar cost + no major geographical difference = why wouldn't you go to Chicago?


But is it? Now I know the rankings do not mean a ton, but they still exist for a reason. Almost across the board, Michigan is the better school for International Law, which I am primarily interested in. Also, based on what I have read on US News, law firms rank students out of Michigan as better than out of Chicago.

I am just trying to figure out if Chicago's reputation is so much better than Michigan's that I should pass on a stronger international program and a better atmosphere (Chicago is the place where fun goes to die + surrounding area is terrible) at Michigan.



/facepalm

foreversport45
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby foreversport45 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:50 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
foreversport45 wrote:
duckmoney wrote:Chicago is the better the school for any field of law + similar cost + no major geographical difference = why wouldn't you go to Chicago?


But is it? Now I know the rankings do not mean a ton, but they still exist for a reason. Almost across the board, Michigan is the better school for International Law, which I am primarily interested in. Also, based on what I have read on US News, law firms rank students out of Michigan as better than out of Chicago.

I am just trying to figure out if Chicago's reputation is so much better than Michigan's that I should pass on a stronger international program and a better atmosphere (Chicago is the place where fun goes to die + surrounding area is terrible) at Michigan.



/facepalm


haha that was terribly helpful. care to explain?

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:51 pm

Your "primary interest" is in a field that doesn't exist. Use the search function. Then go to Chicago. OCI numbers disagree with whatever "law firm rankings" you're talking about. This is a total no-brainer.

foreversport45
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby foreversport45 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:53 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Your "primary interest" is in a field that doesn't exist.


ok well I'll make this a little bit clearer then. I am to work on international human rights cases, something along the lines of untouchable rights in India or corrective rape in South Africa. That reminds, Michigan has the only human trafficking clinic in the country. I just put that under international law heading for convenience.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:56 pm

foreversport45 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Your "primary interest" is in a field that doesn't exist.


ok well I'll make this a little bit clearer then. I am to work on international human rights cases, something along the lines of untouchable rights in India or corrective rape in South Africa. That reminds, Michigan has the only human trafficking clinic in the country. I just put that under international law heading for convenience.


In that case, you're screwed because you're not going to Harvard or Yale.

Seriously, no one gets jobs in the field you want to be in - and it is as close as you come to a "field that doesn't exist." You certainly shouldn't choose between law schools based on probably-non-existent differences in opportunities here.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:13 pm

"International Law" does exist, but only in cross-border corporate and transactional work. Chicago is way better than Michigan for getting these positions. Chicago is a top-5 school, meaning that firms who actually do hire into their international satellite offices will pick a Chicago grad over a Michigan grad, all other things equal, any day. PM me, I am at Chicago and have had some great "international law experience" that I will share with you.

Also, if you want any job, Chicago is better. They lead in job placement (last year's NLJ250 numbers) are second to Yale in Supreme Court placement, have a much better LRAP if you want to go into public interest, carry a better name, and will actually give you a shot at midlaw. Plus, some guy will probably get on here and talk about how the top-25 percent of Michigan can get similar jobs. That may be true, but almost anyone at Chicago has a chance at the same jobs, and only disqualify themselves by personality, interviewing skills, bad OCI bidding, etc. Finally, people may bemoan Chicago's GPA system, but really it means that getting into biglaw-range is much more easy at Chicago. I bet you could get into Chicago's 80-percent median with 1/4 of the energy and luck as getting into Michigan's top-25 percent

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Bildungsroman
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:15 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Plus, some guy will probably get on here and talk about how the top-25 percent of Michigan can get similar jobs. That may be true, but almost anyone at Chicago has a chance at the same jobs, and only disqualify themselves by personality, interviewing skills, bad OCI bidding, etc.

This is some seriously lopsided Chicago trolling.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:20 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:Plus, some guy will probably get on here and talk about how the top-25 percent of Michigan can get similar jobs. That may be true, but almost anyone at Chicago has a chance at the same jobs, and only disqualify themselves by personality, interviewing skills, bad OCI bidding, etc.

This is some seriously lopsided Chicago trolling.


+1. While I think Chicago over Michigan is a no-brainer here, the quote is completely off-base.

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WhoIsDonDraper
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby WhoIsDonDraper » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:23 pm

Do you not realize that Chicago is the Alma Mater of Indiana Jones? He practiced international archaeology. You have the same odds of practicing Dr. Jones' field as you do international law.

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starchinkilt
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby starchinkilt » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:35 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:"International Law" does exist, but only in cross-border corporate and transactional work. Chicago is way better than Michigan for getting these positions. Chicago is a top-5 school, meaning that firms who actually do hire into their international satellite offices will pick a Chicago grad over a Michigan grad, all other things equal, any day. PM me, I am at Chicago and have had some great "international law experience" that I will share with you.

Also, if you want any job, Chicago is better. They lead in job placement (last year's NLJ250 numbers) are second to Yale in Supreme Court placement, have a much better LRAP if you want to go into public interest, carry a better name, and will actually give you a shot at midlaw. Plus, some guy will probably get on here and talk about how the top-25 percent of Michigan can get similar jobs. That may be true, but almost anyone at Chicago has a chance at the same jobs, and only disqualify themselves by personality, interviewing skills, bad OCI bidding, etc. Finally, people may bemoan Chicago's GPA system, but really it means that getting into biglaw-range is much more easy at Chicago. I bet you could get into Chicago's 80-percent median with 1/4 of the energy and luck as getting into Michigan's top-25 percent


OP, go to Chicago, but avoid people like this while you are there.

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Bronte
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:40 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:Plus, some guy will probably get on here and talk about how the top-25 percent of Michigan can get similar jobs. That may be true, but almost anyone at Chicago has a chance at the same jobs, and only disqualify themselves by personality, interviewing skills, bad OCI bidding, etc.

This is some seriously lopsided Chicago trolling.


Yeah, as a Michigan student myself, I was going to come in and recommend Chicago. But c'mon dude, I would rather be top 25% a Michigan than median at Chicago in a heartbeat.

Overall, Chicago has better placement than Michigan. "International human rights law" is a pipe dream. As others have said, international law exists, but only in corporate work at big firms. Chicago has an edge on these positions, but not such an edge that you would be a fool to choose Michigan. Have you asked Michigan to bump your scholarship?

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TaipeiMort
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:45 pm

starchinkilt wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:"International Law" does exist, but only in cross-border corporate and transactional work. Chicago is way better than Michigan for getting these positions. Chicago is a top-5 school, meaning that firms who actually do hire into their international satellite offices will pick a Chicago grad over a Michigan grad, all other things equal, any day. PM me, I am at Chicago and have had some great "international law experience" that I will share with you.

Also, if you want any job, Chicago is better. They lead in job placement (last year's NLJ250 numbers) are second to Yale in Supreme Court placement, have a much better LRAP if you want to go into public interest, carry a better name, and will actually give you a shot at midlaw. Plus, some guy will probably get on here and talk about how the top-25 percent of Michigan can get similar jobs. That may be true, but almost anyone at Chicago has a chance at the same jobs, and only disqualify themselves by personality, interviewing skills, bad OCI bidding, etc. Finally, people may bemoan Chicago's GPA system, but really it means that getting into biglaw-range is much more easy at Chicago. I bet you could get into Chicago's 80-percent median with 1/4 of the energy and luck as getting into Michigan's top-25 percent


OP, go to Chicago, but avoid people like this while you are there.


Yeah. I was trolling a little bit. Sorry about that-- I don't want to demean Michigan, it is an awesome school as well. Reasons to choose Michigan may be that 1) you don't like to be surrounded on three sides by a live-fire zone that has 120 murders a year, 2) you really don't like equal time given to conservative opinions, and it bothers you that a huge portion of the student body is conservative, 3) you don't like rigorous competition among the student body which makes getting high grades really, really hard, 4) you don't like living in a place where there is nothing to do but eat at nice restaurants, 5) you don't like that your school's football rivals are Carnegie Mellon, MIT, and NYU and that you could probably make the football team if you tried.

Oh, and I was being a little hyperbolic, tops at Michigan will give you great opportunities which median at Chicago wont get you.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:52 pm

For international human rights law, Chicago does have some great summer positions with the Hague, the International War Crimes Tribunal, as well and other antidiscrimination/ human rights positions in Asia, Africa, and other countries. These are also easy to get. They had to extend the deadline for application twice for these programs last year because of low-application rates. But, if you want to actually practice in this field: 1) learn French, 2) practice states-side for a long-time and then fortuitously make the jump. Whether you go to Chicago or Michigan, these organizations are not going to send you over there right out of graduation.

squirrelgirl
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby squirrelgirl » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:00 pm

I had to make this same decision about a month ago. I chose Michigan because I love Ann Arbor, and I have some family stuff going on that makes Michigan a better fit for me. Otherwise I probably would have gone to Chicago. Ask Michigan if they will give you more scholarship money. I did quite a bit of negotiating with each school after I got in off the wait list at Michigan and ended up with a much larger scholarship than I expected.

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Emma.
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:06 pm

foreversport45 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Your "primary interest" is in a field that doesn't exist.


ok well I'll make this a little bit clearer then. I am to work on international human rights cases, something along the lines of untouchable rights in India or corrective rape in South Africa. That reminds, Michigan has the only human trafficking clinic in the country. I just put that under international law heading for convenience.


This clinic at UChi deals with a lot of human trafficking type stuff.

--LinkRemoved--

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buckilaw
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby buckilaw » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:11 pm

Some egregious Chicago trolling going on here, though Chicago will tend to give better opportunities in the private sector. "International Human Rights Law" requires that you be able to emphasize with the likes of Mugabe and others that you might hope to prosecute, since you would have to actually kill someone practicing IHRL to create a job opening in the field. Seriously, you might as well attempt to practice Unicorn or Space law.

With Michigan's LRAP you can use it if you go in or out of public interest. I know nothing about Chicago's; though I doubt the differences between the two would warrant picking one school over the other.

Real Madrid
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby Real Madrid » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:18 pm

What are your stats, OP (if you don't mind my asking)?

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Emma.
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:21 pm

buckilaw wrote:Some egregious Chicago trolling going on here, though Chicago will tend to give better opportunities in the private sector. "International Human Rights Law" requires that you be able to emphasize with the likes of Mugabe and others that you might hope to prosecute, since you would have to actually kill someone practicing IHRL to create a job opening in the field. Seriously, you might as well attempt to practice Unicorn or Space law.

With Michigan's LRAP you can use it if you go in or out of public interest. I know nothing about Chicago's; though I doubt the differences between the two would warrant picking one school over the other.


I don't care about unicorns, but I really wish space law was a thing.

BTW, Chicago has a shiny new LRAP that is pretty damn good. It might actually warrant picking Chicago over Mich. :P

Redfactor
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby Redfactor » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:31 pm

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Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

homegrown
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Re: HELP NEEDED! Chicago or Michigan Law?

Postby homegrown » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:33 pm

As a UofC grad, I don't even understand why there is a question.

If you want international anything Chicago is superior. Chicago has much more international clout than it does nationally. Among other things, all those Nobel Prizes add up to something.

There's a reason it's hys and ccn; they are simply a cut above.




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