Case Law Reserve

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Aurora
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Case Law Reserve

Postby Aurora » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:19 am

Just wondering if anyone could share their opinion of Case.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby Jah'rakal » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:26 pm

It's a good school located in a bad city, u'd place well in ohio and especially cleveland if u there

scammedhard
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby scammedhard » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:07 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:It's a good school located in a bad city, u'd place well in ohio and especially cleveland if u there

I disagree. In my opinion, Case is grossly overpriced for the career opportunities it offers; and worse, even if you can go there on a full-ride with no stipulations, I think that you'd still have a lot of problems finding a decent lawyer job, whether in Cleveland or anywhere else.

I recommend attending law school only if one is admitted to Tier 1 school (or the flagship state school -like U Wyoming, Nebraska, etc- as an in-stater) WITH substantial scholarship awards, except for T14s under certain circumstances.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:00 pm

Seriously, just go to OSU.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:39 pm

If you want to practice in Ohio, particularly Northeast Ohio, Case is a decent choice - assuming you can pay for it somehow. I am a 2L and despite being mostly fine with my decision to attend, I took $$$$ to convince, and it's simply not a good local job market. Solid faculty, solid dean, very low cost of living, beautiful area around the school, some connections in other markets, but far diminished from what it was before the recession. You can get an excellent legal education at most T1/T2 schools, certainly including Case, but the real metric is whether you'll be employed post-graduation.

It's hard to recommend it without knowing what your goals are. Generally speaking, any school outside the T20 is going to have a very high risk/reward ratio unless you absolutely love its regional/home market and have no aspirations for BigLaw/Art. 3 clerkship.

1) Do you want to work in Cleveland, or are you alright with working in Northeast Ohio post-grad?
2) Are you getting a decent scholarship/don't care about cost?
3) Are there recent graduates of CWRU Law working places you want to work?

You can answer 3) by doing some research on websites like Martindale or contacting recent grads, the answer is going to be different for everyone.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby Jah'rakal » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:36 pm

scammedhard wrote:
Jah'rakal wrote:It's a good school located in a bad city, u'd place well in ohio and especially cleveland if u there

I disagree. In my opinion, Case is grossly overpriced for the career opportunities it offers; and worse, even if you can go there on a full-ride with no stipulations, I think that you'd still have a lot of problems finding a decent lawyer job, whether in Cleveland or anywhere else.

I recommend attending law school only if one is admitted to Tier 1 school (or the flagship state school -like U Wyoming, Nebraska, etc- as an in-stater) WITH substantial scholarship awards, except for T14s under certain circumstances.


that's such bunch of bull, you could say the same for most law schools, even though in the top 20/30's, Case is a fine school, and for most students who are taking a gamble for a better career, it is worth it

ran12
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby ran12 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:42 pm

Case is a good option b/c it does have a generally higher degree of recognition and respect, esp for a school at its current rank. With the new dean coming in, they seem to be making a legitimate effort to turn things back in the right direction. The only problem is that Cleveland is basically a dead city for jobs. Case will probably still get people jobs in Ohio but it's not going to reach DC or NY like it might have to a degree in the past.

I personally think that Cleveland isn't that bad. It is pretty dreary looking but it does have pro sports, rock and roll HOF and a bunch of cultural hotspots so you could do worse in terms of living somewhere for 3 years.

scammedhard
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby scammedhard » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:52 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:
scammedhard wrote:I recommend attending law school only if one is admitted to Tier 1 school (or the flagship state school -like U Wyoming, Nebraska, etc- as an in-stater) WITH substantial scholarship awards, except for T14s under certain circumstances.
that's such bunch of bull, you could say the same for most law schools, even though in the top 20/30's, Case is a fine school, and for most students who are taking a gamble for a better career, it is worth it

Yes, I know my statement applies to most law schools. There about 200 law schools in the US, so I am basically telling people to not attend about 150 of them. Why? Because for most people IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Every year, there are about 50K JD-seeking jobs for about 25K openings. Mathematically, there are simply NOT ENOUGH JOBS and it is likely to be that way for the long haul.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby Jah'rakal » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:58 pm

scammedhard wrote:
Jah'rakal wrote:
scammedhard wrote:I recommend attending law school only if one is admitted to Tier 1 school (or the flagship state school -like U Wyoming, Nebraska, etc- as an in-stater) WITH substantial scholarship awards, except for T14s under certain circumstances.
that's such bunch of bull, you could say the same for most law schools, even though in the top 20/30's, Case is a fine school, and for most students who are taking a gamble for a better career, it is worth it

Yes, I know my statement applies to most law schools. There about 200 law schools in the US, so I am basically telling people to not attend about 150 of them. Why? Because for most people IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Every year, there are about 50K JD-seeking jobs for about 25K openings. Mathematically, there are simply NOT ENOUGH JOBS and it is likely to be that way for the long haul.


case is about top 1/3 of the schools, for a lot of ppl, even though job prospects are not what they used to be, it is still a door to better opportunities, posters on TLS are way way too elite and i think overly pessimistic about non-t14s

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:01 am

Jah - Agree that Case is a good school, but while nobody can be 100% sure of a secure career based on their school of choice (Yale exempted, perhaps), there is a definite correlation between school and job outcomes. The goal should be to minimize the gamble - nobody should be going 100-200k deep on a whim. I think Case is an excellent choice for a certain subset of future lawyers, and I think the administration finally 'gets it' and is going to focus on what it should have been doing for years at this point (smaller class size, focus on developing alumni connections, fighting some of the negative trends in legal education). Even so, what scammed said isn't a bad guideline for a terrible legal economy. Go to the best in the market, or go with a lot of money. I like Cleveland and have connections, so I'm probably okay, but someone from out of state who knows nothing about Cleveland and wants to work in some other state? Might not be the best decision. And I really don't agree with comparing CWRU to T20-30 schools. Even OSU, which is 35, has significantly better job outcomes on the whole. But, not everyone gets into higher ranked schools, and if you really want to be a lawyer, work in Ohio, and you can make it work financially - absolutely, go for it. Just go in with your eyes open.

I've made a hobby of popping into nearly all the CWRU threads on TLS basically because it was hard for me to get good info before I enrolled. We have a new Dean who will tell you things straighter than some, but the school is still going to put itself in the best possible light when it gets inquiries. I think the purpose of this site is to balance that with actual information and experience, and not all of that is going to be positive.

Edit: Case may technically be in the top 1/3 of all existing law schools in the US, but that is a meaningless distinction. Both because schools can work for people regardless of rank and because most schools below Case are very, very risky, and saying Case itself isn't risky is ignoring a lot of factors. You don't have to warp the facts to make Case look good, it has good points. TLS may be elitist, but have you seen the NYTimes series on law schools? Things...aren't too good right now.

scammedhard
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby scammedhard » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:13 am

I am not an elitist, and most ppl in TLS are not as well. But the reality is that the market for lawyers is extremely elitist, and therefore, the lower the ranking, the lower the chances of getting lawyer job.

In my opinion, Case might be a decent choice for a selected few, as the previous poster stated, but for most people it is not. It's quite simply too expensive for the career opportunities it offers.

According to Case's own numbers, the COA for Case is about 65K per year, or just shy of 200K for a three-year degree. That's a lot of money... maybe their employment prospects justify such cost. Well, not at all according to LST data. For the class of 2009, we can only account for the salary and employment info of about 37%, of which their median salary was reported as 110K. The other 63% or so are either unemployed or in the twilight zone where we don't really know how much they are making or what kind of jobs they have.

Yeah, Case does sound like a solid investment! And this is assuming these employment data are not inflated, which, as we have learned, is a big assumption.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:16 am

Like I said, the justification for attending a law school that does not have major national reach is simple: you like the region or the likely job outcome, and/or it's supremely affordable, and you lack a clearly superior option. If I had been admitted to a T14, I would not be at this school, simple as that, but I also would not trade my scholarship for a mid to lower T1 at or near sticker. I think the real gamble is debt - nobody, anywhere, can guarantee you a six figure job. Case is expensive. I suppose there are some people who might justifiably pay sticker at Case and end up happy, but generally you should demand money to attend.

Again, I like the school very much, I think the incoming Dean is great, I think there are some good opportunities here, the alumni I've reached out to have been very helpful, and I and most of my 1L classmates have meaningful summer employment. But every choice is different and you have to weigh your options carefully. If you give us some more specifics, that might be helpful.

scammedhard
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Re: Case Law Reserve

Postby scammedhard » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:28 am

I just wanted to add that my previous post about Case was not intended to offend anyone or mock anyone that attended, currently attends, or would consider attending Case. The analyses from LST and Case's cost can be applied to the vast majority of law schools, and I am sure it would generate similar, if not worse, conclusions about their value. As a result, one should carefully consider attending law school, Case or any other.




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