Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:32 am

Common Bad Decisions/Bad Advice on TLS:-
From a debt standpoint:
-Choosing Syracuse sticker over Buffalo instate. (New York State Legal Career)
-Choosing Miami sticker over Florida/Florida State instate (Florida Legal Career)
-Choosing Tulane sticker over LSU instate (Louisiana Career)
-Choosing Villanova sticker over Temple instate (Philly Career)
-Choosing Emory sticker over Georgia instate for (Georgia legal Career)

Others:
-Picking a school based on some stupid speciality like animal rights, human rights, environmental protection.
-Going to a non top law school thinking you are going to practice any kind of INTERNATIONAL LAW!
-Attending a non T-13 school, paying sticker price, and not having any kind of contingency plan for the likely scenario of earning anywhere from 30k to 60K in the first 5 or so years of practicing law.

Please add more to the list. thanks.

pacers3177
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby pacers3177 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:03 am

- After doing the correct research and finding the right school for you, listening to others

User avatar
Ernert
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:35 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby Ernert » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:55 am

pacers3177 wrote:- After doing the correct research and finding the right school for you, listening to others


Related to this: not doing your own research period + believing the placement data schools provide you.

User avatar
downing
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby downing » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:51 am

pacers3177 wrote:- After doing the correct research and finding the right school for you, listening to others


Good observation.

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:14 am

Eh...if you want to practice in New Orleans, Tulane>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LSU.

But for Baton Rouge, LSU is perfectly fine.

Granted, I wouldn't recommend Tulane at sticker, but I feel that way about all schools outside HYS.

taxguy
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:46 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby taxguy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:12 am

* Incurring over 100K of indebtedness to attend a T3-T4 school and even for most T2 schools without a solid job connection. Only exceptions might be if the T2-4 school is the top school in the state that you want to practice in such as University of New Mexico. Even then, I am not sure that this amount of indebtedness is worth it.
* Accepting scholarship offers from much lower ranked schools especially if there are tough requirements to keep the scholarships cough...University of Seattle top 10%...cough.
* Going to a T2-4 law school thinking that you can always transfer to a much higher ranked school.
* Thinking that you will be that special snowflake who will get a job because you will be in the top 5%-10% of your law school class.The odds are guaranteed 9-1 against you.
* Attending almost any lower tiered law school in a state that you have no intention to practice in, absent huge scholarships or guaranteed job connections.
* Unless you have very rich parents, paying sticker for almost any law school outside of the top 15 schools or so unless you are getting in-state tuition.
* In the event that you do go to law school, not following Arrow's excellent post about law school preparation in the summer.

Finally, going to any law school (yes, even a t14 school) without a thorough understanding of what will be required of you as lawyers (excessive time commitments, lots of stress, declining first year salaries etc) since I would bet that most of you will regret your decision about being a lawyer.
Last edited by taxguy on Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
FeelTheHeat
Posts: 5203
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:32 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:36 am

Going.

fingersxd
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby fingersxd » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:24 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:Going.


The biggest mistake of all, and yet we're all making it.

BeautifulSW
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:52 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby BeautifulSW » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:26 am

I have never lived in Louisiana but I'd opt for LSU for a completely stupid reason. LSU recrafted its J.D. into a kind of dual degree resulting in the student getting both the common-law J.D. and a diploma in Civil Law. The other law schools in Louisiana require you to choose one track or the other (unless that's changed). That kind of background just appeals to me somehow. Total 94 semester hours, though, which is ten or twelve more than J.D.s in general require. They USED to require seven semesters in residence and granted a J.D./B.C.L. combo but I guess that was more than the students would tolerate.

Anyway. Like I said, stupid reason.

User avatar
downing
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby downing » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:33 am

fingersxd wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:Going.


The biggest mistake of all, and yet we're all making it.


regarding the TLS meme, I don't think any sane person who genuinely believes it's a mistake to go would go, supposing other options exist (not going counts as an option). Ergo, since you think it's a mistake to go, and you have the option not to go, but you are still going, you must be insane.

taxguy
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:46 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby taxguy » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:41 am

downing wrote:
fingersxd wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:Going.


The biggest mistake of all, and yet we're all making it.


regarding the TLS meme, I don't think any sane person who genuinely believes it's a mistake to go would go, supposing other options exist (not going counts as an option). Ergo, since you think it's a mistake to go, and you have the option not to go, but you are still going, you must be insane.


Downing, Insane isn't quite the right word for most of the folks who go to law school. I would suggest that they many might be delusional about many circumstances surrounding law school and the legal profession. For example, they might think that they will be among those to be in the top 10%, or do well enough to transfer, or don't really understand what being a lawyer really entails, or daddy has a lot of money and it beats working, or a number of other factors. Thus, they may be sane, but they are in denial about important factors that might prevent them from going to law school. I would bet that almost everyone on these boards who is attending law school has some excuse that seems to overcome the issues that I noted above, with the exceptions of the ones attending very top schools or getting full rides.

I met a girl going to Nova Southeastern who freely admits that she will have almost 200K of indebtedness as a result of attending the law school She rationalizes this by saying that she thinks that she is smarter than the average bear there and intends to transfer to a T1 school. I didn't say anything to her since it wasn't my place to do so.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:47 am

Heeeeeee's Baaaaaaacckk!!!

User avatar
FeelTheHeat
Posts: 5203
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:32 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby FeelTheHeat » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:07 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:Heeeeeee's Baaaaaaacckk!!!


Don't call it a comeback

User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:26 pm

taxguy wrote:* Incurring over 100K of indebtedness to attend a T3-T4 school and even for most T2 schools without a solid job connection. Only exceptions might be if the T2-4 school is the top school in the state that you want to practice in such as University of New Mexico. Even then, I am not sure that this amount of indebtedness is worth it.
* Accepting scholarship offers from much lower ranked schools especially if there are tough requirements to keep the scholarships cough...University of Seattle top 10%...cough.
* Going to a T2-4 law school thinking that you can always transfer to a much higher ranked school.
* Thinking that you will be that special snowflake who will get a job because you will be in the top 5%-10% of your law school class.The odds are guaranteed 9-1 against you.
* Attending almost any lower tiered law school in a state that you have no intention to practice in, absent huge scholarships or guaranteed job connections.
* Unless you have very rich parents, paying sticker for almost any law school outside of the top 15 schools or so unless you are getting in-state tuition.
* In the event that you do go to law school, not following Arrow's excellent post about law school preparation in the summer.

Finally, going to any law school (yes, even a t14 school) without a thorough understanding of what will be required of you as lawyers (excessive time commitments, lots of stress, declining first year salaries etc) since I would bet that most of you will regret your decision about being a lawyer.



+1 great post

User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:35 pm

taxguy wrote:
downing wrote:
fingersxd wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:Going.


The biggest mistake of all, and yet we're all making it.


regarding the TLS meme, I don't think any sane person who genuinely believes it's a mistake to go would go, supposing other options exist (not going counts as an option). Ergo, since you think it's a mistake to go, and you have the option not to go, but you are still going, you must be insane.


Downing, Insane isn't quite the right word for most of the folks who go to law school. I would suggest that they many might be delusional about many circumstances surrounding law school and the legal profession. For example, they might think that they will be among those to be in the top 10%, or do well enough to transfer, or don't really understand what being a lawyer really entails, or daddy has a lot of money and it beats working, or a number of other factors. Thus, they may be sane, but they are in denial about important factors that might prevent them from going to law school. I would bet that almost everyone on these boards who is attending law school has some excuse that seems to overcome the issues that I noted above, with the exceptions of the ones attending very top schools or getting full rides.

I met a girl going to Nova Southeastern who freely admits that she will have almost 200K of indebtedness as a result of attending the law school She rationalizes this by saying that she thinks that she is smarter than the average bear there and intends to transfer to a T1 school. I didn't say anything to her since it wasn't my place to do so.



I've met so many people like this. These people are idiots. When I ask them what they intend to specialize in, they answer back something stupid like animal law, international relations, human rights, environmental, capital murder law at the ACLU. When I ask them if they know the difference between Litigation and Transactional law, they look at me with a blank stare. The bad news is that they've already signed the loan documents at Sewer Hall, Hofstra, Phoenix Law, etc.

I spent many years working in small law during college, so im very familiar with the ugly side of the legal profession, the low salaries, long hours, shady characters, lack of respect from clients, etc. The majority of people dont have a damn clue. Another thing is that the same people are completely unaware that they will be making anywhere from 30k to 50k at a small law firm after graduation.

User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:47 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Eh...if you want to practice in New Orleans, Tulane>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LSU.

But for Baton Rouge, LSU is perfectly fine.

Granted, I wouldn't recommend Tulane at sticker, but I feel that way about all schools outside HYS.


Tulane is great school, but the cost of attendance at half tuition be:
$122,334!!!
Tuition: $21,072
Room: $12,320
Books:$1,500
Expenses:$5,886
Per Year: $40,778

Tulane is placing only 11.51% into big law. So there's nearly a 90% chance that one will be not cashing in. I think it would be hard to justify that much debt for Tulane. Another downer is that they dont play any big six conference sports and dont have this --ImageRemoved--
Last edited by legalresearch on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:48 pm

Sheehan wrote:
pacers3177 wrote:- After doing the correct research and finding the right school for you, listening to others


Related to this: not doing your own research period + believing the placement data schools provide you.


+1

User avatar
northwood
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby northwood » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:50 pm

legalresearch wrote:
Sheehan wrote:
pacers3177 wrote:- After doing the correct research and finding the right school for you, listening to others


Related to this: not doing your own research period + believing the placement data schools provide you.


+1



this- but ill also add this. NOt sitting on your decision for a few days before officially informing the school. Double check all of your notes and lists for each school- then let the decision sink in for a day or 2. If you arent totally set on it- then dont make it official.

User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby MTal » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:52 pm

Going to law school isn't a mistake in and of itself, but paying for it is.

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:09 pm

legalresearch wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Eh...if you want to practice in New Orleans, Tulane>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LSU.

But for Baton Rouge, LSU is perfectly fine.

Granted, I wouldn't recommend Tulane at sticker, but I feel that way about all schools outside HYS.


Tulane is great school, but the cost of attendance at half tuition be:
$122,334!!!
Tuition: $21,072
Room: $12,320
Books:$1,500
Expenses:$5,886
Per Year: $40,778

Tulane is placing only 11.51% into big law. So there's nearly a 90% chance that one will be cashing in. I think it would be hard to justify that much debt for Tulane. Another downer is that they dont play any big six conference sports and dont have this


Eh...Big Law isn't the only type of job that pays more than $60,000 right out of law school, so claiming that there is a 90% chance of essential failure is far from accurate. The law school transparency page is pretty accurate from the people I have spoken to at the school (recent grads, C/O 2010/2011). In fact, according to LST, Tulane's salaries are about $20,000 more than the equivalent from LSU at the median.

As to Tulane's 3 year COA of $180,000, over 80% of Tulane's students are on scholarship. So..it's not like people are paying $150k+ for a Tulane degree.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, LSU is a good bargain and is known for its' female population. Tulane's undergrads are gorgeous too, trust me. Also, my prior post wasn't to insult LSU - it's just that the OP claimed that LSU is "as good as" Tulane for all of Louisiana, which isn't true (for New Orleans).

User avatar
Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby Verity » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:12 pm

MTal wrote:Going to law school isn't a mistake in and of itself, but paying for it is.


Kind of like sex?

User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:22 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
legalresearch wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Eh...if you want to practice in New Orleans, Tulane>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LSU.

But for Baton Rouge, LSU is perfectly fine.

Granted, I wouldn't recommend Tulane at sticker, but I feel that way about all schools outside HYS.


Tulane is great school, but the cost of attendance at half tuition be:
$122,334!!!
Tuition: $21,072
Room: $12,320
Books:$1,500
Expenses:$5,886
Per Year: $40,778

Tulane is placing only 11.51% into big law. So there's nearly a 90% chance that one will be cashing in. I think it would be hard to justify that much debt for Tulane. Another downer is that they dont play any big six conference sports and dont have this


Eh...Big Law isn't the only type of job that pays more than $60,000 right out of law school, so claiming that there is a 90% chance of essential failure is far from accurate. The law school transparency page is pretty accurate from the people I have spoken to at the school (recent grads, C/O 2010/2011). In fact, according to LST, Tulane's salaries are about $20,000 more than the equivalent from LSU at the median.

As to Tulane's 3 year COA of $180,000, over 80% of Tulane's students are on scholarship. So..it's not like people are paying $150k+ for a Tulane degree.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, LSU is a good bargain and is known for its' female population. Tulane's undergrads are gorgeous too, trust me. Also, my prior post wasn't to insult LSU - it's just that the OP claimed that LSU is "as good as" Tulane for all of Louisiana, which isn't true (for New Orleans).


That calculation ($122,334) COA was with a half tuition $$$ factored in. Also, the argument is that it would be a bad decision to attend Tulane at sticker against attending LSU with much lower in state tuition for a legal career within the state of louisiana, which would probably not include a big law job.

User avatar
legalresearch
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:23 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:I have never lived in Louisiana but I'd opt for LSU for a completely stupid reason. LSU recrafted its J.D. into a kind of dual degree resulting in the student getting both the common-law J.D. and a diploma in Civil Law. The other law schools in Louisiana require you to choose one track or the other (unless that's changed). That kind of background just appeals to me somehow. Total 94 semester hours, though, which is ten or twelve more than J.D.s in general require. They USED to require seven semesters in residence and granted a J.D./B.C.L. combo but I guess that was more than the students would tolerate.

Anyway. Like I said, stupid reason.


+1

User avatar
NoleinNY
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby NoleinNY » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:36 pm

-Going to a school based on its dual degree program.

User avatar
fanmingrui
Posts: 194
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: Common Bad Decisions in Choosing Law Schools

Postby fanmingrui » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:46 pm

Verity wrote:
MTal wrote:Going to law school isn't a mistake in and of itself, but paying for it is.


Kind of like sex?

Haha. Nice.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 8 guests