New Mexican Law

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BeautifulSW
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby BeautifulSW » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:45 pm

One town I think I would like to work in would be Raton. Right on the Colorado border and in a lovely spot.

I've tried cases against Governor Martinez. She's conservative but not at all a nut case. (you listening, Arizona?)

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theavrock
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby theavrock » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:07 pm

This thread is great.

Whether OP is a flame or not now doesn't even matter. I remember when I moved to ABQ two years ago there wasn't much on TLS about New Mexico or New Mexican law so this is great to have.

In response to someone asking why NM is so hostile to outsiders we call it the "Cowboy Attitude." Everyone has a chip on their shoulder. Somone hit it on the head when they said the rest of the country laughs at us so it comes through in their response to outsiders.

I've been here for two years and friends back home still ask how is Arizona? Some people fail to remember that NM is not in fact part of Mexico. NM has been a part of Spain, Mexico and the US. during the 1800's this truly was the Wild Wild West and people took care of themselves and fended off others.

New Mexicans are fiercely proud of their state and have relied on themselves to get by for a long time, so that leads to a sense of shunning outsiders.

Also when OP was asking about small towns where legal aid is needed... pick one. Outside of the Albuquerque/Rio Rancho metro area there is no town over 100,000 people and only two with populations over 50,000. The 10th largest city in the state only has 20,000 some people.

New Mexico is a collection of small towns and I am sure there is a lack of lawyers in most of them.

BeautifulSW
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby BeautifulSW » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:29 pm

The State's official tourist/travel magazine is "New Mexico Magazine". A regular column of anecdotes at the back is "One of Our Fifty is Missing". Usually, the tales are of people who think we're Mexico or part of Texas or Arizona or even an independent country.

If the OP is willing to do the small town extreme isolation bit, a degree from CUNY should not be a barrier. Those folks take what they can get. I once shared office space here with a graduate of the San Fernando Valley College of Law, a decent California Bar accredited law school. He left to take a state lawyer job in Grants. Of course, he had several years of experience. Had to, otherwise he couldn't have taken the N.Mex. Bar exam with a non ABA degree. He was, btw, a perfectly good general purpose lawyer.

edit: If anyone is curious, the SFVCL is now one campus of the still non-ABA approved University of West Los Angeles School of Law. And it is still producing decent general purpose lawyers.
Last edited by BeautifulSW on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

andythefir
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby andythefir » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:21 pm

By extreme isolation do you mean Grants/Raton/Tucumcari or Laguna?

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scrowell
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby scrowell » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:22 pm

Raton seems like a nice place, I looked it up on city-data and some pics on google. Looks pretty cool, like an old wild west town or something. The desert and mountains look pretty there too.The Silver City area looks pretty cool as well, I want to check it out. Of course I wouldn't be too picky about specific locations when it comes to finding a job.

I'm glad other people are enjoying this thread. I certainly am, and I'm definitely benefiting from all of the info. Thanks guys, and I can't wait to get out to NM!

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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby BeautifulSW » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:30 pm

Grants, Raton, and Tucumcari are all on interstate highways. By "extreme isolation", I mean Clovis, Hobbs, Portales, Artesia, even Roswell, though that city is large enough that the sense of isolation won't be so pronounced.

Where the heck is Laguna? You mean the pueblo?

Silver City IS a very neat place, especially if you are into outdoors activities. And job openings, state and private firm, regularly appear there.

andythefir
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby andythefir » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:38 pm

Ok, I’m with you now. Though small compared to most cities in the U.S., Grants, Clovis etc. are NYC compared to places like Laguna (about an hour west of Albuquerque that has a little tiny town adjacent to the pueblo) or Beverly (close to Clovis/Hobbs). Is the legal market in the middle-tier NM cities open to those not from the city? I assumed enough from each city would go NM undergrad>UNM law>back to the town that there would be no demand for other attorneys.

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scrowell
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby scrowell » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:42 pm

Obviously I know nothing first-hand, but from what I'm reading Laguna seems like a Native American reservation.

andythefir
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby andythefir » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:48 pm

It's a reservation with the smallest town you've ever seen right next to it.

firemed
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby firemed » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:58 pm

andythefir wrote:It's a reservation with the smallest town you've ever seen right next to it.


Kind of like the town of Jemez Springs right next to Jemez Pueblo.

I think you are right that in general the towns with people who came from there and then went to UNM law are going to frequently have their legal needs met.... but I bet not every time. UNM law grads are going to go with thier best offer pretty frequently I bet. Let's do a hypothetical... let us say I came from Roswell, then went to NMMI and then NMSU, then went to UNM Law. I might have a lot of options, depending on my grades- JAG, or a well paying Mid-Law firm in Albuquerque, or maybe even clerking for a federal judge before leaving for the USAO. Or maybe get a job with a law firm I interned for in Cruces, or I get a job with a DAs office in Sante Fe, or a small law job in Espanola with my new wife's father (I met her while she was going through dental hygeine school across the street)... etc. Just because one or two people from Roswell enter UNM Law every year doesn't mean that all of them are going back, you know?

Oh, also for anyone interested in Natural Resources Law I hear that Farmington/Bloomfield/Aztec are killer places to get jobs right now with all the natural gas work happening in the area.

andythefir
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby andythefir » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:04 pm

I see what you mean but how many law jobs open in those middle-sized cities every year? Also it would make sense to me that your best offer both in terms of job security and financial security would be in those few law jobs in your hometown.

firemed
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby firemed » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:16 pm

andythefir wrote:I see what you mean but how many law jobs open in those middle-sized cities every year? Also it would make sense to me that your best offer both in terms of job security and financial security would be in those few law jobs in your hometown.


The best bet would be a higher paying job in Albuquerque, or for the government anywhere, than a low paying job in the town you have spent your entire life in.

I love New Mexico, and I want to stay here. But I'll be honest: if someone were to offer me a job paying 80+K a year in an area of law I want to practice in another state after I graduate... I'd probably take it. I don't know why anyone else wouldn't either. But maybe that is just me.

BeautifulSW
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby BeautifulSW » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:45 pm

There's a fair amount of turnover in places like Hobbs and Clovis (both booming, by the way). What happens is the young lawyer spends a couple of years doing felony prosecutions in, say, Portales then decides to apply to, say, the Attorney General in Santa Fe. The AG likes to get apps from young lawyers with some experience and besides, there's a lot to be said for "paying your dues" out there on the High Plains. At least, so says the AG's Chief Deputy (say). So off to Santa Fe goes our hero, sometimes with a new g/f who has ALWAYS just DREAMED of livin' theah with all them airtisty people...

Then they find out and go somewhere more livable. Hence: turnover.

Don't assume, by the way, that an Albuquerque job will pay more than a similar position in, say, Roswell. The reverse is probably true.

Oh, and firemed? If you still feel that way when you graduate, look into El Paso.

firemed
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby firemed » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:28 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:Oh, and firemed? If you still feel that way when you graduate, look into El Paso.


I will, thanks :D . But to be honest... so far I am totally undecided on what kind of law I want to practice... healthcare, labor, criminal... I don't know. I do know I have a line on an internship at a local ADs office, have been looking into clerkships (if I am lucky enough to get good grades), and I am also looking into JAG.

But honestly, at this point, I figure that I will figure out what I want to do sometime after second semester finals are done. Until then I won't really know either what kind of law interests me, or what my grades are going to be like, you know? :mrgreen:

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scrowell
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby scrowell » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:22 pm

firemed wrote:
BeautifulSW wrote:Oh, and firemed? If you still feel that way when you graduate, look into El Paso.


I will, thanks :D . But to be honest... so far I am totally undecided on what kind of law I want to practice... healthcare, labor, criminal... I don't know. I do know I have a line on an internship at a local ADs office, have been looking into clerkships (if I am lucky enough to get good grades), and I am also looking into JAG.

But honestly, at this point, I figure that I will figure out what I want to do sometime after second semester finals are done. Until then I won't really know either what kind of law interests me, or what my grades are going to be like, you know? :mrgreen:


Check it: http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... l_markets/

edit: I shouldn't take credit for that, BeautifulSW said I should read it.

firemed
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby firemed » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:09 pm

Hmmm.... El Paso, TX. Interesting. I will keep this in mind.

BeautifulSW
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby BeautifulSW » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:39 pm

Two additional notes:

-Legal Aid in New Mexico is in a severe budget crisis right now. That doesn't mean, however, that they don't still hire into remote locations from time to time. The state, too, has a hiring "freeze" in place but the freeze is waived for hiring into remote or difficult-to-fill lawyer jobs.

-For the sake of completeness, I should add to my earlier observation that Texas Tech is the standard "safety" school for N.Mex. 0Ls. The other safety school is Denver University. I wouldn't go to DU at sticker. It's just too expensive for the N.Mex. legal employment market to support. But DU is (I'm told) pretty generous in providing support to especially desirable applicants so I would not fail to apply there and see what's on offer. A full ride at DU would be better than in-state at Texas Tech or non-resident at UNM. Maybe better even than in-state at UNM.

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Naked Dude
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:45 pm

SBL wrote:In case this isn't a flame: I lived in NM for years and it still wasn't "ties to the area" enough to get me a single interview with a single ABQ firm despite having good grades at a T25 school. They get a whole lot of East Coast blowhards who want to move to NM for about ten minutes, and they care a lot about ties. You will not find a job in the state. Don't bother looking.


Years? Then what is ties to the area-family? Family running the city/largest companies in town? That sucks. I love New Mexico. I did Philmont there, and the thought of owning a nice ranch style house in the southwest is really appealing to me.

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Veyron
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby Veyron » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:51 pm

Naked Dude wrote:
SBL wrote:In case this isn't a flame: I lived in NM for years and it still wasn't "ties to the area" enough to get me a single interview with a single ABQ firm despite having good grades at a T25 school. They get a whole lot of East Coast blowhards who want to move to NM for about ten minutes, and they care a lot about ties. You will not find a job in the state. Don't bother looking.


Years? Then what is ties to the area-family? Family running the city/largest companies in town? That sucks. I love New Mexico. I did Philmont there, and the thought of owning a nice ranch style house in the southwest is really appealing to me.


Ummm, I don't know how to tell you this, but Arizona is also in the southwest and also has nice ranch style houses. Oh, it also has jobs. All the people from NM end up in Phoenix anyway, might as well save yourself a step.

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Naked Dude
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:03 pm

Veyron wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:
SBL wrote:In case this isn't a flame: I lived in NM for years and it still wasn't "ties to the area" enough to get me a single interview with a single ABQ firm despite having good grades at a T25 school. They get a whole lot of East Coast blowhards who want to move to NM for about ten minutes, and they care a lot about ties. You will not find a job in the state. Don't bother looking.


Years? Then what is ties to the area-family? Family running the city/largest companies in town? That sucks. I love New Mexico. I did Philmont there, and the thought of owning a nice ranch style house in the southwest is really appealing to me.


Ummm, I don't know how to tell you this, but Arizona is also in the southwest and also has nice ranch style houses. Oh, it also has jobs. All the people from NM end up in Phoenix anyway, might as well save yourself a step.


Yeah, but when I think Arizona I think McCain and lots of old retired people. It's nowhere near as romantic an image. And Breaking Bad.

But yeah, NM definitely does not have the monopoly on ranch style houses.

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Veyron
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby Veyron » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:11 pm

Naked Dude wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:
SBL wrote:In case this isn't a flame: I lived in NM for years and it still wasn't "ties to the area" enough to get me a single interview with a single ABQ firm despite having good grades at a T25 school. They get a whole lot of East Coast blowhards who want to move to NM for about ten minutes, and they care a lot about ties. You will not find a job in the state. Don't bother looking.


Years? Then what is ties to the area-family? Family running the city/largest companies in town? That sucks. I love New Mexico. I did Philmont there, and the thought of owning a nice ranch style house in the southwest is really appealing to me.


Ummm, I don't know how to tell you this, but Arizona is also in the southwest and also has nice ranch style houses. Oh, it also has jobs. All the people from NM end up in Phoenix anyway, might as well save yourself a step.


Yeah, but when I think Arizona I think McCain and lots of old retired people. It's nowhere near as romantic an image. And Breaking Bad.

But yeah, NM definitely does not have the monopoly on ranch style houses.


Retired people? AZ has one of the youngest populations of any state in the country. Breaking Bad should only increase your desire to move to Zona with its awesomeness.

Also, more epic scenery.

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Naked Dude
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby Naked Dude » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:45 pm

Nah I'm messing around. I've been to Phoenix, and once out to Tucson (friend went to UA). It's a cool state, and people actually live in Phoenix. Yeah I doubt AZ is any better w/r/t drugs/meth/cartel though. Breaking Bad has some gorgeous, gorgeous shots that the show's content can never take away from.

Hell, I'd even take Colorado (depending on your definition of the SW, not what I think of, but it's a nice place). I don't mean bullshit poser rich people places like Vail or Aspen or any of that mainstream bs, there are some fine as fuck small out of the way towns where you can grab a shitload of land and live alone and not be bothered. Not the Kansas side though, bleh.

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20160810
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:26 am

andythefir wrote:A few quick corrections: UTEP is in El Paso, and is actually a pretty nice campus. It does not have a law school however, and Texas Tech in Lubbock might make someone from NY's head explode. The 505 (Albuquerque, Santa Fe) has mountains, neat cities and good food. Lubbock has dirt as far as the eye can see. I liked the campus when I was considering undergrad there because I wanted a foot in the door to TX and I would argue that all TX schools set you up way better for TX than NM, especially west TX.
I don’t mean to hijack anything, and firemed is in a better position to answer about specifically the law school, but UNM undergrad is very much geared toward Hispanic and Native students because the surrounding region has the highest concentration of those races of almost anywhere in the country. I don’t want to open a can of worms but the school may bend over backwards for those students and not for others.
OP: you seem like a free spirit, in all honesty I would take your spring break, rent a car and drive it down to NM and fly back. That drive is brutal but it’s the only way to experience the fine distinctions between the regions we’re talking about and if you’re truly making such a huge decision it’s the least you can do. If you still have your heart set on it the best way to get anywhere in the country without connections is to get a GS job, especially if you're a veteran, wherever you can get it and then look to transfer.

ABQ is not (any longer) in the 505.

<-- has a real 505 phone number.

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20160810
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby 20160810 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:31 am

Also, AZ and NM both have their high points, but FWIW, I'd take NM over AZ any day. The only exception might be Flagstaff. It's an amazing little town, the only thing that sucks is that there isn't really much there for lawyers to do, but it's beautiful.

PHX is the bigger city than ABQ. It's got pro sports teams, and generally more to do. There's no arguing that point. But it's also (to my way of thinking) just ugly. It's like a dingier LA without the beach. ABQ on the other hand is cheap as hell, and surprisingly nice. Most people who haven't spent time there don't realize it, but that city is a blast, and you can buy shockingly decent houses for less than $200,000.

Plus Phoenix is just too fucking hot. ABQ gets cold in the winter, but I'll take snow over 120-degree summers.

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theavrock
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Re: New Mexican Law

Postby theavrock » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:31 am

SBL wrote:Also, AZ and NM both have their high points, but FWIW, I'd take NM over AZ any day. The only exception might be Flagstaff. It's an amazing little town, the only thing that sucks is that there isn't really much there for lawyers to do, but it's beautiful.

PHX is the bigger city than ABQ. It's got pro sports teams, and generally more to do. There's no arguing that point. But it's also (to my way of thinking) just ugly. It's like a dingier LA without the beach. ABQ on the other hand is cheap as hell, and surprisingly nice. Most people who haven't spent time there don't realize it, but that city is a blast, and you can buy shockingly decent houses for less than $200,000.

Plus Phoenix is just too fucking hot. ABQ gets cold in the winter, but I'll take snow over 120-degree summers.



+ a million.

AZ has some very nice small towns and I love the mountains there, but the larger cities are pretty blah. It depends on what you are looking for. ABQ is definitely not the type of city for someone looking for some sort of cosmopolitan lifestyle, which would be about the only draw AZ has over NM in my opinion.

Oh and even in the winter (besides this last one) when its cold it isn't that bad. Lows in the 20's at night, but up in the 40's and 50's during the day.

There may be a smattering of 575 in ABQ now, but everyone there knows whats up when you are referring to the 505 :)




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