Indiana vs. Notre Dame

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ndirish2010
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:23 pm

RMstratosphere wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:All I said was:

1. IU is not on the same level as NDLS/WUSTL/UIUC
2. IU undergrad is not a "public ivy" by any stretch of the imagination.

Been to Assembly Hall and loved it, sweet campus (ours is still better), and great college town. Wouldn't have gone there with the 120K after I got my other offers.

Sorry if it seems like I've been anti-IU trolling.


NDLS is not on the same level as WUSTL or UIUC.
Confront the facts- IU undergrad is a public ivy, Notre Dame undergrad... has it's own football network.


If NDLS is not on the same leve as WUSTL/UIUC, it's on a higher level. We outplace both in Article III clerkships and also beat them both by about 6% in NLJ250 for c/o 2010.

IU undergrad has nearly a 73% acceptance rate.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:24 pm

RMstratosphere wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Yes, because the SUNY system has SO much in common with the Ivy League.


You mad, bro?


Kind of. The idea of "Ivy" and "Binghamton" or "Stony Brook" in the same thought bothers me, being from the Empire State.

transferbro
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby transferbro » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:30 pm

Who gives a damn if IU is a "public-ivy" or not. Notre Dame's undergrad is ranked in the top twenty yearly. IU's isn't even close. Notre Dame's business school is number 1, which is better than Kelly at IU which is all anyone from IU ever talks about (other than the music school). In any case, the law schools and undergraduate schools are distinct entities. Anyone who truly believes the Notre Dame alumni network cares about law students like they care about undergrads is kidding themselves - you'll realize this when they talk about the "halls" they lived in while at Notre Dame. Anyone arguing IU law is currently as well respected in Chicago as ND is similarly kidding himself (who knows if it will change in the next few years). Free of the stress and worry and risk 100k in debt straddles a person with, maybe I'd choose IU too.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:33 pm

transferbro wrote:Who gives a damn if IU is a "public-ivy" or not. Notre Dame's undergrad is ranked in the top twenty yearly. IU's isn't even close. Notre Dame's business school is number 1, which is better than Kelly at IU which is all anyone from IU ever talks about (other than the music school). In any case, the law schools and undergraduate schools are distinct entities. Anyone who truly believes the Notre Dame alumni network cares about law students like they care about undergrads is kidding themselves - you'll realize this when they talk about the "halls" they lived in while at Notre Dame. Anyone arguing IU law is currently as well respected in Chicago as ND is similarly kidding himself (who knows if it will change in the next few years). Free of the stress and worry and risk 100k in debt straddles a person with, maybe I'd choose IU too.


This is why you network with Double Domers.

jaydizzle
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby jaydizzle » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

I will be attending IUB Law. I am sorry, but the public ivy designation for IU is really just something published in a book. My undergrad is labeled as a "new ivy". It really doesn't matter. Notre Dame is clearly giant leaps above IU for undergrad. No one can argue this. Notre Dame Law is also ahead of IUB, but the distinction isn't as large as with the undergrad. IUB accepted me with open arms, and I had one hell of a cycle! I am excited to be there in the fall, and I really do hope the school grows its reputation. I would like to go back to the east coast, but I am aware that this will be very very difficult coming from IUB. I just want a good job somewhere when I finish. If I have to stay in the midwest that is fine by me. The other options for me would have likely meant unemployment.

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glewz
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby glewz » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

OP, choose Indiana if they're throwing money at you. ND has been consistently better for the last few years in terms of Biglaw employment prospects, but I honestly think that if Indiana has the $$$ to buy top talent, their overall career prospects will improve. (similar to the UCI first year phenomenon)

bball25
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby bball25 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:49 pm

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Last edited by bball25 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RMstratosphere
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby RMstratosphere » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:25 am

bball25 wrote:I talked to a judge and five well respected attornies (young and old) in my large city (not NYC/Chicago size) and they all said they would pick NDLS over UIUC, IU, or WUSTL. They worked for several mid sized law firm's and their favorite school was U of M, but they also hired many NDLS students and felt like it was similar around the midwest. I'm sure people will jump on me with statistics and say I'm wrong, but it appears to me in my attempt to network that NDLS places very well in a lot of mid sized markets across the midwest. Everyone says they want Big Law but only a small amount actually get it, especially from these schools in the 20's. I chose ND over IU but will leave with very minimal debt. The money IU is handing out is definitly something to consider though; $60,000 is a lot of money.


No one is disputing that NDLS places better than IU. If the two were considered in a vacuum, your story would be relevant. But, because employers can pick UChicago, UM, NU, etc. Notre Dame suffers. It's a common problem for schools like NDLS and IU that don't have a natural market.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:01 am

I though both IU law schools had a natural market of Indianapolis?

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:13 am

RMstratosphere wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:All I said was:

1. IU is not on the same level as NDLS/WUSTL/UIUC
2. IU undergrad is not a "public ivy" by any stretch of the imagination.

Been to Assembly Hall and loved it, sweet campus (ours is still better), and great college town. Wouldn't have gone there with the 120K after I got my other offers.

Sorry if it seems like I've been anti-IU trolling.


NDLS is not on the same level as WUSTL or UIUC.
Confront the facts- IU undergrad is a public ivy, Notre Dame undergrad... has it's own football network.


Was this a serious comment? Poster must be living under a rock in Bloomington. ND undergrad (and grad) is way harder to get into, way more prestigious, and in every conceivable way a far better school. I'm not a ND alum nor have a been to Indiana, but in my small town in the middle of nowhere a thousand miles away ND is mentioned with Harvard/Stanford. No, there aren't many Catholics in the town and I am nor Catholic either. Indiana U? Cool state school for rural Indiana..

What is happening at the LS in Bloomington us just great but you need to get your head on strait.

(excuse my accidental rhyme there at the end)

jaydizzle
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby jaydizzle » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:56 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
RMstratosphere wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:All I said was:

1. IU is not on the same level as NDLS/WUSTL/UIUC
2. IU undergrad is not a "public ivy" by any stretch of the imagination.

Been to Assembly Hall and loved it, sweet campus (ours is still better), and great college town. Wouldn't have gone there with the 120K after I got my other offers.

Sorry if it seems like I've been anti-IU trolling.


NDLS is not on the same level as WUSTL or UIUC.
Confront the facts- IU undergrad is a public ivy, Notre Dame undergrad... has it's own football network.


Was this a serious comment? Poster must be living under a rock in Bloomington. ND undergrad (and grad) is way harder to get into, way more prestigious, and in every conceivable way a far better school. I'm not a ND alum nor have a been to Indiana, but in my small town in the middle of nowhere a thousand miles away ND is mentioned with Harvard/Stanford. No, there aren't many Catholics in the town and I am nor Catholic either. Indiana U? Cool state school for rural Indiana..

What is happening at the LS in Bloomington us just great but you need to get your head on strait.

(excuse my accidental rhyme there at the end)


This is a bit much... Indiana has some top grad programs that are better than its undergrad. They are more in line with the rep of Notre Dame.. Notre Dame still has a better law school, but the gap is closing thanks to the talent IU is attracting.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:51 am

This.
And WUSTL >or= Illinois >or= ND >> IUB
Pick IU over ND only if COA is at least 30K less

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ndirish2010
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:55 am

JamMasterJ wrote:This.
And WUSTL >or= Illinois >or= ND >> IUB
Pick IU over ND only if COA is at least 30K less


How do you figure the WUSTL>UIUC>NDLS thing? Doesn't make much sense- the three schools have been fairly close in NLJ numbers, and the latest numbers have NDLS up by 6% on both. Not to mention we have always outplaced both in Article III clerkships.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:05 am

ndirish2010 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:This.
And WUSTL >or= Illinois >or= ND >> IUB
Pick IU over ND only if COA is at least 30K less


How do you figure the WUSTL>UIUC>NDLS thing? Doesn't make much sense- the three schools have been fairly close in NLJ numbers, and the latest numbers have NDLS up by 6% on both. Not to mention we have always outplaced both in Article III clerkships.

I think you misread, or I fucked up. I meant to say that the schools are essentially equal, but if there is a (slight) difference, that is what it would be. I actually meant to imply equality among the three more than anything.

allamerican73
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby allamerican73 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:12 pm

Agree that NDLS=WUSTL=UIUC and all are generally more well-regarded than IU-B (notwithstanding any USNWR rankings).
Perhaps the real question for a prospective law student residing in Indiana is tuition cost; IU-B is approximately $15,000 less per year than NDLS--a huge difference in this market.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:21 pm

allamerican73 wrote:Agree that NDLS=WUSTL=UIUC and all are generally more well-regarded than IU-B (notwithstanding any USNWR rankings).
Perhaps the real question for a prospective law student residing in Indiana is tuition cost; IU-B is approximately $15,000 less per year than NDLS--a huge difference in this market.


Nobody should go to NDLS at sticker...problem solved.


bball25
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby bball25 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:01 pm

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Last edited by bball25 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:54 pm

IU doesn't place into biglaw. It is well ranked by US News, but that doesn't mean you get biglaw. There are only a few schools outside of the T14 that place well in biglaw. Schools like UCLA/USC, BC, BU, GW and Fordham are in major markets that feed into the biggest and best law firms in the country. ND seems to do pretty well in Chicago, though you'd expect it to perform a litttle better.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:01 pm

The only people who say "public ivy" are people with inferiority complexes. Who cares if they think their public school is a "public ivy"?

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RMstratosphere
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby RMstratosphere » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:14 pm

I don't think IU released NLJ 250 data for c/o '09, which is by no means an excuse. In fact, that's my #1 standing gripe with the school. I think it explains there not being listed though.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:38 pm

Gotta call bullshit unless you provide a link?

Edit: Reviewing the AMLaw website, it appears the law firms provide the stats, not the law schools. So yeah, IU didn't make the list b/ of placement, not because they didn't participate. Nice try.

framboozer
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby framboozer » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:20 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Besides my general dislike for the term "public ivy," IU hardly fits that definition. It is a solid public school, but it is like the 7th best school in the Big Ten (NU, Michigan, Wisconsin, OSU, Minnesota, Purdue...maybe even Penn State). Great music program, though.


:shock: I'm gonna have to go off-topic, even though I've rather enjoyed the different interpretations of the IUB rankings climb, but I need to defend the honor of my undergrad PSU. Penn State isn't maybe better than IUB. It most definitely is better, or at least most people think so. I'm only pointing this out because you put a school like Minnesota as certaintly better than IUB, when Penn State is most certainly better than that school too. I have a lot of friends at most of the Big 10 schools, and they pretty much agree that it's something like:
NU >> Mich >> Wisc > Illinois = Penn State = Purdue = OSU > Minnesota > Mich State = Iowa = IUB >> Nebraska (Does it even count yet?). Those that I know who applied to multiple Big 10 schools, meaning they were applying largely OOS just skipped over IUB, because it lacks destintation school appeal. Football effect? Or is it the Indiana effect?

Edit: For clarity, I'm obviously talking about undergrad, but I only brought this up, because Purdue was mentioned, so I assumed we were talking about undergrad. When it comes to law schools, eh, Penn State's law school is not even public and not a school that I would consider applying to.

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RMstratosphere
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby RMstratosphere » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:47 pm

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:Gotta call bullshit unless you provide a link?

Edit: Reviewing the AMLaw website, it appears the law firms provide the stats, not the law schools. So yeah, IU didn't make the list b/ of placement, not because they didn't participate. Nice try.


Look at the graph for T-30 schools.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681

"*NLJ250 data not available for the class of 2009. It could be anywhere between 0 and 13.2%"

Again, I'm not defending the data being unavailable; in fact, I'm very upset about it. I don't know whether the law school or the law firms are responsible for the reporting, but it seems that the data is unavailable either way.

I only provide the link because I am defending my statement. I was not trying to bullshit anyone or skirt the issue.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Indiana vs. Notre Dame

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:53 pm

RMstratosphere wrote:
"*NLJ250 data not available for the class of 2009. It could be anywhere between 0 and 13.2%"



The data isn't available because we only have data for the top 50 schools. The 50th school that year placed 13.2% into the NLJ 250.




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