FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

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Flips88
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:19 am

CanadianWolf wrote:I've been to Tulsa many times.

coolstorybro.jpg

GatorStudent
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby GatorStudent » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:56 am

Bill Cosby wrote:I'm aware of the new standards. My comments on the matter are based on my discussions with officials at the school.


I figured. At the same time, it's good for the OP to know the standard too, since we want people to be well-informed.

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blerg
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby blerg » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:10 pm

Flips88 wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Oral Roberts University is located in Tulsa.

Regent University is in Virginia Beach. Guess no one should ever live there either, right?


+1 to Wheaton and Chicago.

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Flips88
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:53 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
Flips88 wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:OP: Have you calculated the total cost-of-attendance (COA) for each law school ? Use in-state for the second & third years at FSU as the process is quite easy. Also, if feasible, visit both schools before deciding. Tulsa is a very religious, family values oriented city---even more so than much of the panhandle area of Florida.

You're an idiot


Long version: if something someone says is ridiculous, and so ridiculous that it merits name calling, then it shouldn't be that difficult to point out why it is ridiculous. In this particular instance, telling someone to check out a region is a bit much, but it (IMO) isn't too crazy. Still probably a little crazy, though. Still, this is an on-topic thread, so have a legitimate discussion or don't have a discssion.


Short version: Ohai, we're in an on-topic forum. Try not to be a prick. Thanks.

Point taken. But it's like saying "Oh you're thinking about going to Wisconsin? You should really visit Milwaukee first." I'll stop beating this dead horse though.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby Bill Cosby » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:09 pm

GatorStudent wrote:
Bill Cosby wrote:I'm aware of the new standards. My comments on the matter are based on my discussions with officials at the school.


I figured. At the same time, it's good for the OP to know the standard too, since we want people to be well-informed.


Absolutely.

mrwarre85
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby mrwarre85 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:26 pm

All my family is in Tulsa and I don't really disagree with what Wolf is saying. Tulsa might be a tad more conservative than OKC. Certainly not Edmond, but the metro area as a whole. By the way why are we talking about this the whole state is conservative (every county voted for republican last election, only state to pull that off). Oklahoma is crazy because it breaks the rule that large cities must be liberal (see Texas: Dallas, San Antonio, El Paso, Austin, Houston, all blue on the map). Now I'm getting way off topic.

I think Wolf is giving good advice. I would certainly visit Milwaukee if that is where Wisconsin grads got jerbs and I wanted to attend Wisconsin. School is only three years guys. Visit Tulsa and OKC if you are thinking about taking OU.

Both are great schools and I really considered both of them in my cycle. I would have gone to OU over FSU because of ties and because I realized that FSU's environmental law ranking/program was very unlikely to affect me. I ended up at neither, but anyway they are both great schools and congratulations is in order. Yeah, forget about "Biglaw," but people who get that often forget about Q of L anyway so no sweat. I hope your JD helps you to live within a meaningful community and make a positive difference in this world.

If anyone on this site says you are naive/foolish/TTT or whatever for wanting that then just ignore them and silently know that these individuals will have to change in order to have a fulfilling and meaningful lives. I feel sorry for whoever feels going to terrific schools like FSU and OU would only make sense at the barrel of a gun. Sad. What a telling and awkward comment.

Ok, finished. Please commence raining on me and making yourselves feel big and bad.

WSJ_Law
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:39 pm

Some thoughts:

1. OP, youre an idiot. You came here looking for advice, and then you decided to whine when we called attention to a fact that you may already have considered way back in the depths of your mind: These schools aren't good and you're probably not going to achieve success from them. Statistically speaking. BK is a master of LS data and discerning substance from fluff in the numbers, and let's face it, you dont want to get skull-fucked by soulcrushing debt.

2. Taxguy is a notorious idiot who went to law school in the 60s and is on this site because tax_son cant even get into Cooley. He also refers to the FL hierarchy of law schools as if he is remotely qualified to do so (i.e., more than internet research). He previously refered to Stetson as "the jewel of them all" because he most likely picked up a wayward copy of USNWR and went "LOLOL #1 TRIAL AD PRGM!".

3. Don't get defensive. The legal employment market for JDs and attorneys is as abysmal as it is competitive, and quite honestly its due in part to people who get into any fucking law school and prance off towards a JD unknowingly 100s of thousands of dollars in debt w no jobs.

These schools aren't horrible, but they have to come at the right price. So don't get offended, get rational. Best of luck

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Flips88
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby Flips88 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:55 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:Some thoughts:

1. OP, youre an idiot. You came here looking for advice, and then you decided to whine when we called attention to a fact that you may already have considered way back in the depths of your mind: These schools aren't good and you're probably not going to achieve success from them. Statistically speaking. BK is a master of LS data and discerning substance from fluff in the numbers, and let's face it, you dont want to get skull-fucked by soulcrushing debt.

2. Taxguy is a notorious idiot who went to law school in the 60s and is on this site because tax_son cant even get into Cooley. He also refers to the FL hierarchy of law schools as if he is remotely qualified to do so (i.e., more than internet research). He previously refered to Stetson as "the jewel of them all" because he most likely picked up a wayward copy of USNWR and went "LOLOL #1 TRIAL AD PRGM!".

3. Don't get defensive. The legal employment market for JDs and attorneys is as abysmal as it is competitive, and quite honestly its due in part to people who get into any fucking law school and prance off towards a JD unknowingly 100s of thousands of dollars in debt w no jobs.

These schools aren't horrible, but they have to come at the right price. So don't get offended, get rational. Best of luck

OP never posted COA numbers but...

FSU's COA is $56k per year for OOS, and assuming he could get in-state for 2L & 3L then it's $36k/yr so that's $128k of debt. If he doesn't get in-state then $168K.

OU's OOS tuition is $28,000, but OP has $15k so $13k plus ~$10k for living costs so $23k/yr for a COA of ~$69k could be up to $75k. And that's assuming he doesn't get in-state after 1L, which since I'm an in-state student I don't know if it's simple or not.

So it's $128k-168k vs. $69k-75k.

$70k isn't exactly getting "skull-fucked by soulcrushing debt" as you so eloquently put it.

The question the OP has to answer is whether he'd rather live in Oklahoma or the surrounding region or Florida and its surrounding region.

taxguy
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby taxguy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:06 pm

Funny, now that there are a number of posts including name calling, the bottom line posed by folks is what I stated before. To wit, ""A lot depends... on where you want to practice."

WSJ_Law
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:18 pm

168k for FSU Law certainly is. And IMO 69-75k for OU is not a stellar deal either.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby kozmosis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:31 pm

wow, this thread got way more attention than i thought it would. thanks everyone for chiming in. i really appreciate those who brought insight into the specific schools i'm looking at. also thanks to whoever called me an idiot.

as far as debt burden i'm looking at tuition only as i have saved enough money to pay for rent/expenses/books unless tragedy were to strike. so at FSU its (assuming in state for 2L and 3L) around $68,000. at OU it is around $43,000. I don't consider either of these numbers to be "soul-crushing" but i would obviously prefer the lesser number.

the point of this thread was to try to ascertain some insights about the two schools i am considering and a lot of you have helped in that cause. thanks again to everyone who was cordial and i'm sorry this thread got started in such a combative manner.

any more thoughts on the schools would, of course, be appreciated.

WSJ_Law
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:35 pm

You're welcome.

I dont think you should "assume" instate for 2L/3L. Didn't you see the post before about FL tightening standards for in-state classifications? This is a very large difference. Talk to people at FSU and current out-of-state students. You are right that 43,000 isn't soul-crushing, but you did not mention you had so much in savings. It is better to err on the side of caution when estimating CoA.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby kozmosis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:40 pm

i agree with a cautious approach which is why i'm trying to flush out all the information i can right now. i spoke with the FSU admissions when i visited in May and they assured me that everyone who has followed the steps they have prescribed has received in-state for the following 2 years. i know there are a lot of steps but i would be moving down in early august to get them all done. unless they were dishonest with me i believe i would be able to get in-state for 2L and 3L.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:42 pm

kozmosis wrote: unless they were dishonest with me i believe i would be able to get in-state for 2L and 3L.


Pro-tip: They will be dishonest with you. Some thread a while back featured a 0L applying to a TTTT whose Dean "promised" the ranking of that festering shithole would rise. Admissions will do anything to get your tuition dollars.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby kozmosis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:47 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:
kozmosis wrote: unless they were dishonest with me i believe i would be able to get in-state for 2L and 3L.


Pro-tip: They will be dishonest with you. Some thread a while back featured a 0L applying to a TTTT whose Dean "promised" the ranking of that festering shithole would rise. Admissions will do anything to get your tuition dollars.


i see a pretty large difference in misleading (intentionally or not) a 0L about the trajectory of a law school's ranking and out and out lying about the results of previous students attempts at in-state classification. however, you could still be right and perhaps they were lying to me. it's something i'll think about. thanks.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:06 pm

It was a hyperbole. Of course its more egregious at the lower levels, but to me almost every T1 school's ad com's are somewhat dishonest in the way obfuscate their employment numbers. "Median Starting Salary: 160k!!!!111one"* when the asterisk denotes something like this...

*Of those employed in private sector, class of 2006, 22% reporting

Be very careful. Other than that good luck

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Bill Cosby
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby Bill Cosby » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:14 pm

I find it hard to even characterize that statement as misleading. Does anyone really expect the admissions office of a school to say "yeah, our school blows"?

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:18 pm

Tangential, but it worsens as the claims deviate further from actuality, and becomes less forgivable when debt outweighs job prospects.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:18 pm

I like to think I started this lovely thread off on the right foot.

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TheFutureLawyer
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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby TheFutureLawyer » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:38 pm

kozmosis wrote:
WSJ_Law wrote:
kozmosis wrote: unless they were dishonest with me i believe i would be able to get in-state for 2L and 3L.


Pro-tip: They will be dishonest with you. Some thread a while back featured a 0L applying to a TTTT whose Dean "promised" the ranking of that festering shithole would rise. Admissions will do anything to get your tuition dollars.


i see a pretty large difference in misleading (intentionally or not) a 0L about the trajectory of a law school's ranking and out and out lying about the results of previous students attempts at in-state classification. however, you could still be right and perhaps they were lying to me. it's something i'll think about. thanks.


Yeah if they really said that to you then I am ashamed to have come from FSU (unless your specific circumstances make you likely to get in-state tuition). You generally cannot get in-state tuition unless you can prove you didn't just come here to go to school. There MIGHT be a loophole about buying property, but that might be a different state.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby kozmosis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:55 pm

i don't intend to go to FSU and then skip town. it would be my intention to stay in Florida. FSU sends a list of documents and steps to out-of-state students for reclassification and their admissions dept. stated that if i followed those steps then in-state status would be granted.

i can't do anything but take them at their word that if i follow those steps and plan to stay in Florida then i would be granted in-state status.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby GatorStudent » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:00 pm

kozmosis wrote:
i see a pretty large difference in misleading (intentionally or not) a 0L about the trajectory of a law school's ranking and out and out lying about the results of previous students attempts at in-state classification. however, you could still be right and perhaps they were lying to me. it's something i'll think about. thanks.


Yeah, they might not be entirely honest with you. Hence my original post that you should look at the statute, and talk to FSU students who went through the process! Let us know what they say.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby GatorStudent » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:02 pm

kozmosis wrote:i can't do anything but take them at their word that if i follow those steps and plan to stay in Florida then i would be granted in-state status.


You CAN do more--as I just stated, talk to FSU students and actually read the statute. As a poster above mentioned, some states require more than just intent to stay in-state for an indefinite period. IIRC, Florida requires more than that too. So you should read the statute!

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby EricBerry » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:06 pm

I talked to four different people in FSU's admissions office and they all said that if you complete the reclassification guidelines (http://www.law.fsu.edu/prospective_stud ... elines.pdf) in a timely manner, you WILL get residency for second and third years. The early application the the FL bar requirement acts as proof of intent to remain in FL.

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Re: FSU (out of state sticker) vs Oklahoma ($$$)

Postby kozmosis » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:07 pm

GatorStudent wrote:
kozmosis wrote:i can't do anything but take them at their word that if i follow those steps and plan to stay in Florida then i would be granted in-state status.


You CAN do more--as I just stated, talk to FSU students and actually read the statute. As a poster above mentioned, some states require more than just intent to stay in-state for an indefinite period. IIRC, Florida requires more than that too. So you should read the statute!


thanks, i will do that.




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