Is it worth it? Florida schools... Forum

[gatorlaw]

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[scammedhard]

Every school has a "program no other law school offers." These programs are useless. They are part of the scam.

Figure out where you want to practice law and then go there. Licenciatura en Derecho is useless in the US. If you want to practice is Europe or South America, fine, go to law schools there for 1/100 of the price you'd pay in the US.

Another issue is jobs. How many unemployed lawyers have been held back because they lacked a "Licenciatura en Derecho"? None or close to none. How many unemployed lawyers have been held back because they went to TTTs? A lot!

[gatorlaw]

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[scammedhard]

That's so true.... but at the same time, I'm not from the U.S and I don't know whether I'll be staying here my whole life. I just wonder if I would close more doors in the U.S by going to a TTTT with this program than open ones abroad

Law degrees are not portable across borders. Figure out what you want to do with your life -and where- before you undertake this massive "investment."

[gatorlaw]

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[Grizz]

Um, law degrees are certainly portable across borders. As long as you are an EU citizen you may practice transitional law in any country, regardless of where you earned your degree. Also, most South American countries, at least the one I'm from, accept civil law degrees earned in any other country, you just have to join the local bar. The U.S, Canada, Australia, and the UK are the only places in the world that practice common law, the rest of the world is on the same page with civil law, and only have minor hurdles to moving your degree across borders.

I wouldn't go to either school hoping to practice in Spain or the EU. Those schools don't have a good rep in FL, much less in Spain. Hell, I wouldn't go to either hoping to practice in FL.

[Wade LeBosh]

No, it's not worth it. What would you possibly do with this "Licenciatura en Derecho"lol after you graduate? Go to UF if you want to practice in Florida.

[gatorlaw]

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[bhan87]

Um, law degrees are certainly portable across borders. As long as you are an EU citizen you may practice transitional law in any country, regardless of where you earned your degree. Also, most South American countries, at least the one I'm from, accept civil law degrees earned in any other country, you just have to join the local bar. The U.S, Canada, Australia, and the UK are the only places in the world that practice common law, the rest of the world is on the same page with civil law, and only have minor hurdles to moving your degree across borders.

If your intention is to practice law in Europe, then get a degree from a European institution. It will be substantially cheaper and much more relevant. Foreigners that come to study at American law schools tend to come for LLM programs, not JDs.

[gatorlaw]

Um, law degrees are certainly portable across borders. As long as you are an EU citizen you may practice transitional law in any country, regardless of where you earned your degree. Also, most South American countries, at least the one I'm from, accept civil law degrees earned in any other country, you just have to join the local bar. The U.S, Canada, Australia, and the UK are the only places in the world that practice common law, the rest of the world is on the same page with civil law, and only have minor hurdles to moving your degree across borders.

If your intention is to practice law in Europe, then get a degree from a European institution. It will be substantially cheaper and much more relevant. Foreigners that come to study at American law schools tend to come for LLM programs, not JDs.

In the program, you get a law degree from the Universitat de Barcelona, not Nova. Nova gives you a JD and UB gives you an LDD. They are two separate degrees.

And thanks for your input !

[bhan87]

Um, law degrees are certainly portable across borders. As long as you are an EU citizen you may practice transitional law in any country, regardless of where you earned your degree. Also, most South American countries, at least the one I'm from, accept civil law degrees earned in any other country, you just have to join the local bar. The U.S, Canada, Australia, and the UK are the only places in the world that practice common law, the rest of the world is on the same page with civil law, and only have minor hurdles to moving your degree across borders.

If your intention is to practice law in Europe, then get a degree from a European institution. It will be substantially cheaper and much more relevant. Foreigners that come to study at American law schools tend to come for LLM programs, not JDs.

In the program, you get a law degree from the Universitat de Barcelona, not Nova. Nova gives you a JD and UB gives you an LDD. They are two separate degrees.

And thanks for your input !

You're missing the point...

For 2011-2012 the annual tuition for full-time day students is $32,750 and for part-time evening students, tuition is $24,560

[Grizz]

Um, law degrees are certainly portable across borders. As long as you are an EU citizen you may practice transitional law in any country, regardless of where you earned your degree. Also, most South American countries, at least the one I'm from, accept civil law degrees earned in any other country, you just have to join the local bar. The U.S, Canada, Australia, and the UK are the only places in the world that practice common law, the rest of the world is on the same page with civil law, and only have minor hurdles to moving your degree across borders.

If I have learned anything from the state of the legal economy, just because you CAN practice does not mean anyone will hire you.

[Wade LeBosh]

No, it's not worth it. What would you possibly do with this "Licenciatura en Derecho"lol after you graduate? Go to UF if you want to practice in Florida.

Well that's the thing, I'm not sure I'll live in the states much longer, my family moves around a lot so I don't know where I'll end up. I was thinking that by getting this degree I'd be able to practice here and in Spain/Argentina....but I don't wanna do it if I can't even practice here in the event that I do stay because NSU has such a bad name...Also, the Licenciatura de Derecho you don't earn at NSU, you have to go to the Universitat de Barcelona for 2 years as part of the program and then pass the bar in Spain. Ugh its so frustrating...in Spain there isn't a crazy ranking system and "bad" law schools :/ I still don't get how it works here

It might not be a terrible idea if you are sure you are going to practice in Spain/Argentina (i.e. you already have a job lined up in one of those countries). Getting a degree just because you may have the opportunity to use it at some point in your life isn't a great reason. Especially if UF is an option, GatorLaw.

[gatorlaw]

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[Scipionyx]

You have to consider also that Spain's economic situation is a bit worse than that of the United States at this point, though we seem to be catching up as of late. If you thought the real estate bubble here was big, look into the speculation and price increases that were going on there up until the crash. Southern European economies generally for a few decades now have had really bad employment for young people trying to start a career, and that was in much better times. Now official unemployment is over 20%, and for younger people out of college it's closer to 50%. Plenty of fresh grads, if they can find employment, are earning about 1000 euros a month, not enough to move out of their parents' house: a new term, mileurista, is used to refer to the millions of younger people who are multilingual and have masters or doctoral degrees and can only get these jobs. Just wait until Spain's bonds get further downgraded to junk status like Greece's.

[Grizz]

Thanks to everyone who replied! I really appreciate all the advice.

To answer your question, I'd probably have an easier time finding a job in Spain/Argentina because I have connections there, as my family and friends still reside there. I don't know anyone who is a lawyer in Florida who would help me get a job. Also, I do think its very important to open doors rather than close them. We are not from here, nor do we know if I will be staying here my whole life, so getting a law degree from NSU that allows me to practice in FL and a law degree from Barcelona which allows me to practice in the EU/South America is probably the best option for someone who moves around countries a lot. I know NSU isn't Harvard, and I know I probably won't be sitting in the Supreme Court or doing biglaw but I'd hate to screw myself over if and when we end up moving again. Also, if NSU is free, what's the risk?

It won't be free. You have three years of opportunity cost, and your scholarship will probably be contingent on a high class ranking, which makes it likely you will lose it. Not only is NSU not well respected on FL, but getting the other degree won't open any more doors here. Best case no one will care, worst case employers will think you are trying to flee the country and will be reluctant to hire. Employers in other countries I bet will feel the same thing. Why hire some foreigner when they can hire a local who appears more committed? They don't need someone who knows American law. If they did they'd hire a real American lawyer, not some dude who graduated from some ramdom south FL school.

Let's say you get the foreign degree, for free, and your family member gets you a job in Spain or whatever. Then your family moves back to the states 2 years later. Congrats! You're pretty much unemployable. You don't have any experience with American law.

Just pick a country and stick with it. The myth of the lawyer who jet sets around different countries practicing different law is just that, largely a myth.

[Grizz]

Also what is up with your idea of some sort of common EU/South American legal system. Just because you can sit for their bar or bar equivalent doesn't mean you know anything at all about their laws.

[Grizz]

Also it won't be free because you will have to pay for cost of living out of pocket.

[gatorlaw]

Sici, I know the situation in Spain is truly desperate. But who knows what it will be like 5 or 10 years from now? I really hope the situation betters itself...abroad and here.

Rad law, thanks for all your advice. I'm not hoping to land some jet-setting dream job that will allow me to fly back and forth between the U.S and Spain. But my family moves a lot back and forth, and I need to be able to be employable wherever I am. I'm not looking to work in biglaw anywhere, just to be able to get a job here with a Nova degree and in Spain with a family member with a UB degree. I don't want to make a lot of money, I'd like to work in public interest or immigration.

When we moved to the U.S, it was very tedious for my parents to have their Architecture degrees re validated. It's a hassle, and it's even worse with law because it's an entirely different system. By getting this degree I am HOPING to be able to have a decent job in Florida with an NSU degree. I know I'll be able to find a job in Spain and Argentina with a relative, but I don't know about FL :/ I would just be using this program to be ABLE to work in both places, I know landing a job is not easy, but it's even harder when you're not legally allowed to practice law in that country. Also, I am not a U.S citizen so I'm sort of a foreigner here instead of there :/

One last thing, I agree with you that the laws in both countries are very different. However, civil law school education is much more theoretical than the American common law system, so new graduates or people who are changing specialties are always trained from the ground up by the hiring firm (which is why EU/South American salaries are so much lower than here). U.S law students are much more prepared lawyers when they enter the market. This makes it very easy for my family members and anyone else to move across countries and just join the local bar, as all new hires are being trained simultaneously regardless of background/experience. Obviously, I don't wanna insinuate it's easy but it's not very hard either. As long as you know someone who is willing to give you a job, you're pretty much in the clear, as firms are very accustomed to teaching new hires everything from zero. In this sense, American law schools are much much better at churning out professionals from the get go.

Oh and about the cost of living, I can always stay with family there while I study so, fortunately, I'd only have to pay for miscellaneous items, which really helps lower the cost of living.

I still have a lot to think though, and I'm really taking to heart everyone's warnings about NOVA...I hope I'm not getting scammed into something. Ay ay ay...I really appreciate other people's input though, especially about NOVA since I don't know much about the schools here.

[bhan87]

It really does sound like you have your mind made up on this issue... Do what you wish, but don't say we didn't warn you about the huge risks involved in what you're proposing.

[Grizz]

Nova is not a good bet to get a job in FL.

But you already have your mind made up. Good luck.

[CanadianWolf]

The practice of earning both common law & civil law law degrees is more common in Canada & familiar to European firms. McGill University law in Canada awards both civil & common law degrees--for both it takes 3.5 years, I believe. McGill grads do well both in Canada & Europe. The Univ. of Ottawa also has both civil & common law programs, as does LSU in the US, but students elect one program or another.

Tough to assess the value of the Stetson or Nova programs without being familiar with the available career paths.

Many major US law firms are aware of the need for transnational lawyers according to recent articles. Language fluency & a foreign law degree are helpful if someone can figure out how to use them effectively with a US law degree. My experience, for example, included working for a US firm that did substantial work for European interests. Language fluency & a knowledge of civil law systems would have been helpful in both a practical & bonding senses.

A concern, however, is that the type of firms, government agencies & companies that have a need for attorneys with degrees from more than one country &/or familiar with both legal systems, is that they will still be seeking the "best & the brightest" law grads and Stetson & Nova pedigrees may not suffice in that respect.

[CanadianWolf]

Currently there are a few US-Canadian dual degree programs available at NYU, Michigan State, Colorado, American & Detroit-Mercy. To the best of my knowledge these programs offer common law JDs & LLB/JDs. MSU & American are partnered with the University of Ottawa which offers both civil & common law law degrees, but I am not sure if the civil portion is available to US students on the 4 year program because the third year abroad is a requirement to earn the US degree.

The Nova/Stetson program with Spain offers the added benefit of refining one's Spanish proficiency or fluency which adds value to one's resume. At least two elite US law firms note one's linguistic ability as prominently as one's legal education on their website. Many large & small DA's offices are in dire need of Spanish/English bi-lingual attorneys & paralegals.

Since you may get a "full ride to both", then it may be "worth it" depending upon your career plans.