USF vs. Chapman

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ems4
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USF vs. Chapman

Postby ems4 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:26 pm

I know its late in the cycle for a question pinning two schools against each other but just to put it out there. Currently USF is no scholly/ no grants so 61k in debt per year. whereas Chapman has offered me 25k renewable so long as I maintain a 3.0 which only about 1/3 of students are able to do because of the way they do the rankings. So the choice is
USF: no scholarship
vs.
Chapman: 25K renewable
Or the more realistic option of retake/reapply
Thanks

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bk1
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:28 pm

There isn't even a question of what you should do:

ems4 wrote:retake/reapply

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Shammis
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby Shammis » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:34 pm

I hate to say it...
Retake and Reapply if you think you can improve your LSAT. Maybe throw in an ED for shits and giggles, but you do not want to pay sticker at USF and saddle yourself with that much debt. People at Hastings are struggling for jobs and youll be competing with Boalt, Stanford, and everyone else who wants a piece of the VC/Tech market in Sv. As for Chapman? dont go. Rank dropped below 100 and employment is a killer there. Youll be lucky to get ANY job at all (this isnt me talking out of my ass, a good friends brother graduated top 1/3 and no one can find a job). Try to get a job, study your ass off, and get a scholly at a better school. Good luck!

total_loss
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby total_loss » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:27 pm

These schools are peer schools with neither outperforming the other in terms of job placement. Both schools offer absolutely dismal employment prospects in their respective markets. If you are absolutely set on attending law school, taking the scholarship is the correct choice, but it's not necessarily a good choice.

jstubbs wrote:As for Chapman? dont go.


Bitter that Chapman didn't offer you scholarship?

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Shammis
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby Shammis » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:43 pm

total_loss wrote:Bitter that Chapman didn't offer you scholarship?


I didnt realize that would come across as bitter at all, which I am not. And I have yet to receive my admissions packet so I dont know if they gave me a scholly. Even if they do though, Im not going to Chapman. Im in at Pepperdine and waiting on LLS, so we'll see. I say not to go to Chapman b/c of the terrible employment prospects.

WSJ_Law
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby WSJ_Law » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:06 pm

total_loss,
I'll pick up the slack for jstubbs' suggestion as a non-biased party who didn't apply to any of these schools and say 'Don't fucking go to Chapman'. No personal motives here re: Chapman, just an inordinately risky value proposition. Agreed.

total_loss
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:19 pm

Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby total_loss » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:29 pm

jstubbs wrote:Just a heads up, got my admit packet today. 60% scholly with 3.0 contingency for renewal.


Congrats on the Chapman scholarship. I stand corrected.

For the record, I'm not a proponent of Chapman for the very reason that it has absolutely dismal job prospects. But, let's be clear on another thing, too: USF, Loyola LA, Pepperdine, USD, etc., etc. are in no better position to outperform Chapman (or one another) in the statistic of job placement in this economy in any way that is more than marginal.

If you want to go to any law school in this market, you're risking unemployment after graduation.

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Shammis
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby Shammis » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:41 pm

Ty on the congratulations, hopefully it finds a better home somewhere other than with me :). We are all agreed that no one should go to Chapman if they want to practice at a mid to big law firm...

That being said, I have friends at Pepperdine and LLS and from what I gather, LLS is placing better than Pepperdine right now. However, in order to get a good job you have to at least be top 1/3...even then, it is still a grueling cycle. We shall see what happens, but do not discount the value of having connections when it comes to finding employment. I really hope everything improves for our OCI.....

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Jah'rakal
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby Jah'rakal » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:56 am

chapman is a FINE school, I went to UCI for undergrad and i know Chapman has a decent rep in the area, OP, i'd go to chap if i were u and work my ass off to keep the scholly, a chance of having a decent life in OC is a chance few would have

total_loss
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby total_loss » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:48 pm

jstubbs wrote:I have friends at Pepperdine and LLS and from what I gather, LLS is placing better than Pepperdine right now. However, in order to get a good job you have to at least be top 1/3...


The "top-third" argument fails. That's so 2007. The reality is, your friends at so-and-so school aren't going to tell you to avoid it like the plague because the market has bottomed out. They won't tell you that they pray each night to have a $65K job lined up upon graduation. They won't tell you that the firms they summered for and companies they interned for aren't hiring. Your friends want you to believe in their school to boost their confidence about deciding to matriculate there.

The luckiest students from USF, Chapman, Loyola, Pepp, etc. are getting decent to well-paying jobs (generally) only with credentials like top 1-10%, LR, and Moot Court. Don't be fooled into thinking you have a solid shot at "mid to big" firms with a top-third ranking from a T2. Especially in a market that not only pulls T-14s nationally, but also maintains a couple respectable T-20s.

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Shammis
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Re: USF vs. Chapman

Postby Shammis » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:08 pm

hey total-law...it is totally possible that my friends just got lucky BUT

1 friend is already graduated and practicing in Orange county making >100K (Top 1/3).
Another has an In house gig lined up paying >100K (top 25%).....Nor did I ever say you have a "solid" shot...I said it's still a grueling cycle. And I dont have friends that lie to me. I know full well about job prospects and have had serious conversations about the prospects of employment currently facing their friends right now. I have secured my own employment for the future to the best of my abilities before I have started LS and have a pretty good network already. I do not have rosy glasses on, nor should anyone anywhere right now. That being said this economy is more about who you know than how good your transcript is (TO A CERTAIN EXTENT). I like to think I make my own luck and will not take class rank for granted.

To the poster referencing Chapman, it is true, Chapman offers a solid education (from what I have heard around town at least...did an internship at a civil lit firm in costa mesa who said they would consider me if I went there) who's respect is on the rise. BUT ITE you really really have to network like a madman to nab a job. It can be done, but will always be easier at a school with more Alumni and more prestige. If you head to Chapman good luck, enjoy the beautiful campus (I checked it out and it's nice) bust your ass, and network.




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