Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

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Which to choose?

W&M with 69K scholarship
47
52%
Georgetown sticker price
43
48%
 
Total votes: 90

Maxmillion
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Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Maxmillion » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:41 pm

1 year out of school with around 16K in savings after working for a year. I was planning on attending W&M with a 69K scholarship (I would be paying 13K p/y). However, I just got off the WL at Gtown but would be paying sticker price plus DC CoL. I absolutely want private practice and would love to get BigLaw. Which would you choose?

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bk1
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:00 pm

74k debt versus 195k debt?

I think this is pretty easily W&M.

ETA: I fucked up the math.
Last edited by bk1 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Maxmillion
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Maxmillion » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:03 pm

Yes, but is biglaw possible out of W&M?

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Lawquacious
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:04 pm

bk1 wrote:35k debt versus 195k debt?

I think this is pretty easily W&M.



Not if he/she wants a reasonable shot at biglaw... Though obviously that is still far from guaranteed at GULC.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:04 pm

Maxmillion wrote:Yes, but is biglaw possible out of W&M?


Beat me to it...

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BrianGriffintheDog
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:05 pm

If big law is what you really want, then it's Gtown all the way.

It's "possible" for WM, but it's chances aren't as great as Gtown.

uvahooo
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby uvahooo » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:06 pm

Study your ass off hard. B/c if your median at GULC your scrkewed with 195k of debt.

I would take 35k anytime. Plus a lower COL.

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buckilaw
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby buckilaw » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:07 pm

Does W&M have a LRAP?

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bk1
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:08 pm

Maxmillion wrote:Yes, but is biglaw possible out of W&M?


Possible but unlikely.

Basically the rational financial decision is W&M. Of course GULC gives you a much better shot at biglaw but it gives you an even far greater chance of being skullfucked by massive amounts of soulcrushing debt. Also consider that GULC probably doesn't even give you a coinflip's chance at biglaw.

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bk1
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:08 pm

buckilaw wrote:Does W&M have a LRAP?


Why does this matter to someone who will be 74k in debt?
Last edited by bk1 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:10 pm

uvahooo wrote:Study your ass off hard. B/c if your median at GULC your scrkewed with 195k of debt.

I would take 35k anytime. Plus a lower COL.



Where is the 35k? It sounds like tuition alone at W&M would be 39k (13k x 3) v. 135k (45k x 3) tuition at GULC. The 195k includes COL so it is not an accurate comparison.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 pm

bk1 wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Does W&M have a LRAP?


Why does this matter to someone who will be 35k in debt?



I was kind of wondering about that post too..

But really, with COL even W&M debt will be WAY higher than 35k after 3 years (not to mention that is a round-down estimate of the 13k per year, and you compared the tuition of W&M to the tuition+COL of GULC.. but I already mentioned that).

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bk1
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:13 pm

Lawquacious wrote:Where is the 35k? It sounds like tuition alone at W&M would be 39k (13k x 3) v. 135k (45k x 3) tuition at GULC. The 195k includes COL so it is not an accurate comparison.


http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php

My bad. Ah fuck I did the math wrong. I had assumed OP was a VA resident. So it's 74k not 35k. Even still, I think at 74k that W&M is the rational financial decision.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:17 pm

bk1 wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:Where is the 35k? It sounds like tuition alone at W&M would be 39k (13k x 3) v. 135k (45k x 3) tuition at GULC. The 195k includes COL so it is not an accurate comparison.


http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php

My bad. Ah fuck I did the math wrong. I had assumed OP was a VA resident. So it's 74k not 35k. Even still, I think at 74k that W&M is the rational financial decision.


Yeah, it is still a ton more at GULC. I still think if OP wants a shot at biglaw GULC is probably the better choice, but it definitely would be taking a financial risk though.

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bk1
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:17 pm

Okay so let me be clearer. The difference here is W&M at 75k and GULC at 195k (this is after burning the savings).

W&M is clearly the rational financial decision. It'll basically mean you have no shot at biglaw but you will pretty much be debt free in less than 10 years no matter what. On the other hand W&M is a regional school that will restrict you to VA and possibly the surrounding area. If you're okay with working in VA then I say take W&M. That being said, if you have no interest in living in VA then W&M makes no sense even if it is reasonably priced. That being said, GULC is really risky. You will need biglaw to pay off your debt and biglaw is something that less than half of the class gets at GULC. So you're looking at a >50% chance of being screwed by debt coming out of GULC. I mean that scares the shit out of me but if you want to work outside of VA then GULC will give you that (and at least a decent shot at biglaw) whereas W&M won't.

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buckilaw
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby buckilaw » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:21 pm

Lawquacious wrote:
bk1 wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Does W&M have a LRAP?


Why does this matter to someone who will be 35k in debt?



I was kind of wondering about that post too..

But really, with COL even W&M debt will be WAY higher than 35k after 3 years (not to mention that is a round-down estimate of the 13k per year, and you compared the tuition of W&M to the tuition+COL of GULC.. but I already mentioned that).


It wouldn't be a factor that makes or breaks the OP's decision; but, if they do eventually decide to do PI and W&M doesn't have a LRAP the difference, in terms of actual quality of life, between repaying GULC's soul crushing debt and W&M's debt would be narrowed somewhat.

Maxmillion
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Maxmillion » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:26 pm

I know biglaw out of W&M is far from given but no chance, really? I thought that ~25% of the class got offered a shot if they wanted it?

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bk1
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:26 pm

Maxmillion wrote:I know biglaw out of W&M is far from given but no chance, really? I thought that ~25% of the class got offered a shot if they wanted it?


Realistically it's probably like 10-20%. But since it has an 80%+ chance of not happening, it isn't something you should be banking or even hoping on getting since the odds are so stacked against you.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:33 pm

Maxmillion wrote:I know biglaw out of W&M is far from given but no chance, really? I thought that ~25% of the class got offered a shot if they wanted it?



That is true that you probably would have some shot. I don't think that 25% of students gets biglaw from W&M, but if you ended up in the top 30% of students or so I think you would have a good shot at NYC biglaw (meaning that although not all of the top 30% will be able to get biglaw or want it, being in that grade range would at least give you a shot I think). I would research the stats for yourself though (online and TLS searches etc).

Either way honestly I don't feel you would be going too wrong. If you don't get a biglaw job from GULC then they do have an LRAP program that should help you stay afloat, and there is also IBR if needed. But, if you are not set on going to the school with better overall biglaw placement and don't want the heavy debt burden then I think W&M all the way.

Edit: It looks like W&M placed 15% into NLJ firms v. 37% GULC according to the 2011 NLJ report (there are some 'biglaw' jobs not included in NLJ, so the market-paying firm placement might be a little bit higher in actuality for both these schools. It may not be a big enough difference to make it worth it.. Also, it is true that although GULC places more into biglaw overall you would be in a more competitive student body, so in reality you might have just as good (or almost as good) a shot from W&M...

Sorry if I'm not helping lol

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drays917
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby drays917 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:03 am

If your heart is really set on BigLaw, then it should be GULC no question, terrifying debt and all. If you're open to other career paths, then it should be W&M and its lower price tag. Depends on how badly you want that shot at a big firm.

lalala21
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby lalala21 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:31 pm

Maxmillion wrote:1 year out of school with around 16K in savings after working for a year. I was planning on attending W&M with a 69K scholarship (I would be paying 13K p/y). However, I just got off the WL at Gtown but would be paying sticker price plus DC CoL. I absolutely want private practice and would love to get BigLaw. Which would you choose?


What did you decide Maxmillion?

schooner
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby schooner » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:45 pm

I'm surprised that he had a Saturday morning deadline for this decision; don't schools set deadlines for days during the work week? Anyway, in case the OP is still interested:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml - The Top 15 Schools From Which the Most "Prestigious" Law Firms Hire New Lawyers

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1 - Law schools with the highest percentages of graduates hired by NLJ 250 firms.

Maxmillion
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Maxmillion » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:15 am

Right now I have deposits at both and I am still unsure. I am hoping to have this decided by today so I can get housing etc., anyone else have any thoughts?

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scribelaw
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby scribelaw » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:36 am

Maxmillion wrote:Right now I have deposits at both and I am still unsure. I am hoping to have this decided by today so I can get housing etc., anyone else have any thoughts?


I'm a rising 2L at GULC. I think Georgetown is clearly the better choice here. I wouldn't consider W&M over us unless it were a full ride.

The posters above are right, though: median at GULC is rough right now. It's risky to borrow that much, but then again, thousands of people borrow as much to go to third-tier schools with no prospects. At least you'll have a 1/3 shot.

Chippy
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Re: Off a WL, need to decide by morning. W&M $$$$ or Gtown

Postby Chippy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:49 am

scribelaw wrote:
The posters above are right, though: median at GULC is rough right now. It's risky to borrow that much, but then again, thousands of people borrow as much to go to third-tier schools with no prospects. At least you'll have a 1/3 shot.


So the bad investments of third-tier law students somehow justifies a ridiculously bad investment of GULC students paying sticker? If the law student don't hit the 1/3 mark (which no 0L can know before entering law school, but as a waitlisted student, I bet his/her LSAT/GPA correlates with far below median), the 200k in debt is going to become out of control very quickly. Even if they get big law, the student would need to remain for several years (i.e. doesn't get sheath laid-off, fired, find they hate the work, offers rescinded or delayed, etc). What are the chances of all those factors working out?




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