How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

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drewski2011
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How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby drewski2011 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:47 pm

Since I couldn't get into most of the top canadian schools, getting into MSU and then being able to go to Ottawa was the main reason I decided to accept MSU. Ottawa is a top 5 law school in Canada, but I wanted to hear what people have to say about MSU in relation to other schools in the US. With a ranking of 95th, I was a bit concerned. They did crack the top 100 for the first time so are they on the rise? Are they respected nationally? Is it an advantage to not be directly linked with MSU? Any info on them would be appreciated. I know this place is nowhere near some of the other schools but I just want to hear what people have to say. Thanks again!

Here is some background on Ottawa... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University ... lty_of_Law

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:57 pm

MSU is an "on the rise" law school. Prior to 1997 it was known as the Detroit School of Law. In the US, it is regarded as a tier two law school. The opportunity to get both US & Canadian law degrees in four years is quite valuable. The opportunity for one with numbers typically too low for Ottawa, it is an outstanding opportunity.

P.S. What other joint degree programs are offered by US & Canadian law schools ? I know that Detoit-Mercy offers one----are there others ? Thanks !
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby JamMasterJ » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 pm

I guess you could say they are rising somewhat, but the appeal of an MSU degree is still very localized to Michigan.

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bk1
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:59 pm

MSU is in general a bad school in the U.S. compared to other schools, though it is good for one thing specifically (working in Michigan). It is definitely not national and the fact they are rising in the USNWR rankings means absolutely nothing.

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:00 pm

OP intends on working in Canada.

MSU applications have been rising rapidly due to their ranking increase & to their generous scholarships.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drewski2011
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby drewski2011 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:02 pm

bk1 wrote:MSU is in general a bad school in the U.S. compared to other schools, though it is good for one thing specifically (working in Michigan). It is definitely not national and the fact they are rising in the USNWR rankings means absolutely nothing.


Thanks for being honest. I went to visit and while I liked the campus, after talking to some people it seems nationally it doesn't have a great reputation for it's undergraduate education. Its MBA program I've heard is top tier and some other graduate programs. Let's hope the Law school keeps going up in the rankings while im there :)

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bk1
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:03 pm

Were you accepted to the MSU/Ottawa program or were you accepted to just MSU and are trying to backdoor into the MSU/Ottawa program?

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:04 pm

How else are you going to get admitted to Ottawa ?

drewski2011
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby drewski2011 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:06 pm

According to the website "Currently, MSU Law students may apply to the Dual J.D. Program in the spring of their first or second year" so it is not something I think you can be accepted to coming into school first year. They want to see how you do at first in a law school setting.

Even if it is through the "backdoor" it is still a good opportunity to try and get into a good school in Canada.

I think these are the only schools that offer the dual law degree's

Windsor – Detroit LL.B./J.D.

Ottawa – Michigan State LL.B./J.D.

Ottawa – American University LL.B/J.D.

Osgoode – NYU LL.B./J.D

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:09 pm

With your stats, it is an outstanding opportunity to get into a great Canadian law school with the added benefit of being able to take any US and Canadian bar exam.

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bk1
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:12 pm

drewski2011 wrote:According to the website "Currently, MSU Law students may apply to the Dual J.D. Program in the spring of their first or second year" so it is not something I think you can be accepted to coming into school first year. They want to see how you do at first in a law school setting.

Even if it is through the "backdoor" it is still a good opportunity to try and get into a good school in Canada.


I would be worried about not getting accepted via the backdoor. Do they have any stats on how easy/hard it is to be accepted? How many apply each year? How many get in? Does it have to do with previous numbers, law school grades, or something else?

Without knowing how likely you are to get in via the backdoor it seems quite risky.

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Not risky if you are in the top 50% after the first year. Cost is a factor.

drewski2011
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby drewski2011 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:21 pm

Ya michigan state says aslong as you are top 50%, your usually good to get in. Not many people apply for it because you have to pay Michigan State tuition for an extra year, so an extra $32,000 just to get a LL.B. so unless you want to practice in canada, it isn't appealing to many US students.

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:24 pm

Ottawa changed the common law designation to a JD, although the civil law degree remains as an LLB.

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ndirish2010
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:35 pm

I live in Lansing right now. MSU has a great reputation here. :D

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GNW
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby GNW » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:37 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:I live in Lansing right now. MSU has a great reputation here. :D


So does Cooley haha

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AreJay711
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:41 pm

That actually seems like a useful thing OP. Not for MSU but for Ottawa. If you intend to practice in Canada I imagine that is what matters.

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ndirish2010
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:56 pm

GNW wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:I live in Lansing right now. MSU has a great reputation here. :D


So does Cooley haha


Haha, point taken, but still I think the majority of people realize that Cooley is a joke. State is considered miles better (obviously).

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jne381
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby jne381 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:52 am

drewski2011 wrote:
bk1 wrote:MSU is in general a bad school in the U.S. compared to other schools, though it is good for one thing specifically (working in Michigan). It is definitely not national and the fact they are rising in the USNWR rankings means absolutely nothing.


Thanks for being honest. I went to visit and while I liked the campus, after talking to some people it seems nationally it doesn't have a great reputation for it's undergraduate education. Its MBA program I've heard is top tier and some other graduate programs. Let's hope the Law school keeps going up in the rankings while im there :)


Wow, the pretension is so thick I can cut it with a knife.

MSU/DCL has always had a good reputation in Michigan. That being said, it was always more a "practice ready" sort of law school. You can still see this with some of the older professors at the school. They are guys that worked as lawyers in Detroit when Detroit was still one of the most important cities in the country. As such, they are practice hardened, and not as much of academics. This is one of the things that killed DCL in US News rankings; having professors that are published and influential in the field in that way is important. Combine that with the fact that DCL was truly a regional school (mostly Detroit), and you see where the struggles came from...especially as the Detroit market decreased by half.

The move to MSU gave the law school new life and it will be on the rise for a while. MSU as a university is recognized nationally and it will benefit the law school. The school has also started to make the changes in the professors to get more folks that do publish on the faculty (although it is odd when you have some professors who have never practiced).

Further, the rise in US News does have an effect. US News is self-fulfilling, in that as it rises the applicant scores increase, thus raising the ranking even more.

Finally, I don't know where you get the impression that MSU is not well respected as an UG institution. Perhaps it is not an elite institution, but it is a Big Ten school and is still fairly well ranked at something like 79th in US News (usually right around with Iowa and Indiana).

CanadianWolf
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Re: How Good/Bad is Michigan State's reputation

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:34 pm

MSU & Marquette are much better law schools than their rankings suggest. MSU's dual-degree (US-Canada) is an incredible opportunity. Marquette enjoys the same Wisconsin State Bar membership-sans-bar-exam privileges as does Wisconsin-Madison. MSU's facilities are very good, Marquette's are brand new.




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