Minnesota VS GW

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

GW VS Minnesota

Minnesota
44
54%
GW
37
46%
 
Total votes: 81

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NYCbound35
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby NYCbound35 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:59 pm

A) OP said they would be fine living in Minnesota
B) GW will cost roughly a $250k
C) Minnesota will cost half of that

Minnesota by a landslide


OP, there's a thread with a Minneapolis BigLaw recruiter taking questions somewhere here. Might be helpful for learning more about UMN placement.

justhockey31
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby justhockey31 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:00 pm

I mean I am definitely content with either of these options...I am just trying to work through all the numbers (cost, employment, etc) to make an educated decision

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bk1
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:03 pm

justhockey31 wrote:I mean I am definitely content with either of these options...I am just trying to work through all the numbers (cost, employment, etc) to make an educated decision


There isn't really anything to work out, imo. You're comparing a 75% chance of paying off your loans in 10-15 years versus a 25% chance of paying off your loans in 10-15 years. I don't see how this is even close.

justhockey31
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby justhockey31 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:07 pm

This was a quote from the Minnesota Biglaw recruiter who is answering questions:

"From the University of Minnesota (the U is Miami, if you ask me. ), top 10% will definitely make you competitive for Faegre/Dorsey, and very competitive for the other smaller firms. Keep up the great work.

You'll always have T14 and BC/GW/ND, etc. grads also competing for big firm jobs. However, Minnesota firms like to hire the home grown students. You should be fine, so long as your stats stay high. It is when you drop below the top 20% that you find law firms unwilling to interview because of the competition from the coastal schools."

Should this be worrisome because it definitely doesn't sound ideal...

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bk1
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:19 pm

justhockey31 wrote:This was a quote from the Minnesota Biglaw recruiter who is answering questions:

"From the University of Minnesota (the U is Miami, if you ask me. ), top 10% will definitely make you competitive for Faegre/Dorsey, and very competitive for the other smaller firms. Keep up the great work.

You'll always have T14 and BC/GW/ND, etc. grads also competing for big firm jobs. However, Minnesota firms like to hire the home grown students. You should be fine, so long as your stats stay high. It is when you drop below the top 20% that you find law firms unwilling to interview because of the competition from the coastal schools."

Should this be worrisome because it definitely doesn't sound ideal...


He's talking about T14 people (or strong regional with good grades) that have ties to the state which is really not that many people. I mean yes it makes it harder for Minnesota grads to get those jobs but it isn't so many people that it is absurd. Compare that to GW where you are the second best school in the city not to mention the fact that you are in the most competitive legal market in the country that is being flooded by T14 + law review types.

If you're afraid of competition from schools outside the area, you have far more to be afraid of at GW than you would at Minnesota.

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NYCbound35
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby NYCbound35 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:22 pm

justhockey31 wrote:This was a quote from the Minnesota Biglaw recruiter who is answering questions:

"From the University of Minnesota (the U is Miami, if you ask me. ), top 10% will definitely make you competitive for Faegre/Dorsey, and very competitive for the other smaller firms. Keep up the great work.

You'll always have T14 and BC/GW/ND, etc. grads also competing for big firm jobs. However, Minnesota firms like to hire the home grown students. You should be fine, so long as your stats stay high. It is when you drop below the top 20% that you find law firms unwilling to interview because of the competition from the coastal schools."

Should this be worrisome because it definitely doesn't sound ideal...



Did you expect to get BigLaw falling below 20% at UMN? Outside of the top 20% at GW means that you are not a lock for big law either. The reason why UMN is a smarter choice, IMO, is even if you find yourself out of the BigLaw bubble, you are not completely screwed. Finishing below median at GW with 250k in debt is scary. Finishing below median at UMN with 125k in debt means that you'll still be stuggling, but at least you won't be living off government cheese for the next 25 years.

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drays917
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby drays917 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:54 pm

NYCbound35 wrote:
justhockey31 wrote:This was a quote from the Minnesota Biglaw recruiter who is answering questions:

"From the University of Minnesota (the U is Miami, if you ask me. ), top 10% will definitely make you competitive for Faegre/Dorsey, and very competitive for the other smaller firms. Keep up the great work.

You'll always have T14 and BC/GW/ND, etc. grads also competing for big firm jobs. However, Minnesota firms like to hire the home grown students. You should be fine, so long as your stats stay high. It is when you drop below the top 20% that you find law firms unwilling to interview because of the competition from the coastal schools."

Should this be worrisome because it definitely doesn't sound ideal...



Did you expect to get BigLaw falling below 20% at UMN? Outside of the top 20% at GW means that you are not a lock for big law either. The reason why UMN is a smarter choice, IMO, is even if you find yourself out of the BigLaw bubble, you are not completely screwed. Finishing below median at GW with 250k in debt is scary. Finishing below median at UMN with 125k in debt means that you'll still be stuggling, but at least you won't be living off government cheese for the next 25 years.


Agreed.

I'd say that either school you go to, it's pretty important that you do well if you're looking to get a good job. The only difference is, UMN is about half as scary if something does go wrong. Assuming - and I think this is a very important assumption - that you're as OK with Minneapolis as you say, then I would take the ~ equivalent job prospects for half the price.

marcellus
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby marcellus » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:33 pm

The emerging consensus seems to be that UMN and GW offer the same job prospects: good if in the top 20%, bad if below that. This seems reasonable considering they are ranked at almost the same level by USNWR.

If that is the case, UMN seems smarter because its much cheaper. So I stand by my UMN vote. If I were in your shoes, and really was certain I wanted to go to law school, I'd attend UMN. I hope that whatever choice you make works out to your best advantage.

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Flips88
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby Flips88 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:43 pm

marcellus wrote:This seems reasonable considering they are ranked at almost the same level by USNWR.

I enjoyed this statement

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bk1
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:46 pm

marcellus wrote:The emerging consensus seems to be that UMN and GW offer the same job prospects: good if in the top 20%, bad if below that. This seems reasonable considering they are ranked at almost the same level by USNWR.


They have similar job prospects (granted GW is a bit better) but USNWR rankings have nothing to do with it.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:00 pm

This thread is becoming a battle of semantics. Is GW a better school than Minnesota? Yes. Is it 120K better? No. Therefore, OP go to UMN.

justhockey31
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby justhockey31 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:17 pm

I also really enjoy the "they are ranked the same, therefore gw = umn" line of logic haha. I realize UMN is the smart and right choice but damn GW was always my dream school...I think its just going to take some time to get over that :cry:

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NYC Law
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:19 pm

If it helps, I almost completely regret not picking Minnesota because they have a Blitz arcade game in the lounge. That alone can help justify going to MN.

weejonbu
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby weejonbu » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:21 pm

Go to GW. It's sexier. /thread

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dood
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby dood » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:22 pm

OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.

justhockey31
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby justhockey31 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:24 pm

dood wrote:OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.



Haha Anything > Ithaca...my eye doctor used to have his office there and those trips would be the worst because afterwards we would just be like "should we do anything here? Nah, lets get the fuck home!"

I do agree that DC > Minneapolis...its certainly playing a factor

Autoaccept
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby Autoaccept » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:25 pm

GW probably isn't technically worth $120k more, but recruiters don't care about your financial situation going into law school, they're only going to see where you graduated from.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:27 pm

dood wrote:OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.


Quality of life in Ithaca or Minneapolis is vastly superior to DC. We must have very different opinions of quality of life.

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dood
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby dood » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:34 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
dood wrote:OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.


Quality of life in Ithaca or Minneapolis is vastly superior to DC. We must have very different opinions of quality of life.


correct. prolly why i labeled it as "subjective factor". dont get me wrong, i like nature, camping, hunting, etc - just cant live without a variety of places to eat and booze at 3am.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:38 pm

dood wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
dood wrote:OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.


Quality of life in Ithaca or Minneapolis is vastly superior to DC. We must have very different opinions of quality of life.


correct. prolly why i labeled it as "subjective factor". dont get me wrong, i like nature, camping, hunting, etc - just cant live without a variety of places to eat and booze at 3am.


Ithaca is a college town with 20K+ students. There are enough places to booze.

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Flips88
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby Flips88 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:40 pm

dood wrote:OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.

I'm curious as to how GW at sticker is working out.

justhockey31
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby justhockey31 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:42 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
dood wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
dood wrote:OP: consider quality of life in MN vs. DC during ur 3 years of law school. 3 years of the best years of ur life is a long time to waste. for example, i chose GW full sticker over cornell simply due to DC > ithaca.

visit the schools and ask yourself where u would be happier. and weigh that subjective factor in ur decision, not just statistics.


Quality of life in Ithaca or Minneapolis is vastly superior to DC. We must have very different opinions of quality of life.


correct. prolly why i labeled it as "subjective factor". dont get me wrong, i like nature, camping, hunting, etc - just cant live without a variety of places to eat and booze at 3am.


Ithaca is a college town with 20K+ students. There are enough places to booze.


This is surprisingly incorrect....

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queenlizzie13
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby queenlizzie13 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:47 pm

Minneapolis and DC are both pretty great metropolitan areas - they are ranked high in terms of fittest city, etc. The level of education and income is higher in general in both of these cities compared to most of the United States as well. Just depends on personal preference.

Really though OP if your dream school is GW and you would seriously regret not going then I would go. Otherwise you would be left wondering what if? However, if you could live without going then choose UMN for many of the reasons other posters said above.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby YourCaptain » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:18 pm

bk1 wrote:
justhockey31 wrote:This was a quote from the Minnesota Biglaw recruiter who is answering questions:

"From the University of Minnesota (the U is Miami, if you ask me. ), top 10% will definitely make you competitive for Faegre/Dorsey, and very competitive for the other smaller firms. Keep up the great work.

You'll always have T14 and BC/GW/ND, etc. grads also competing for big firm jobs. However, Minnesota firms like to hire the home grown students. You should be fine, so long as your stats stay high. It is when you drop below the top 20% that you find law firms unwilling to interview because of the competition from the coastal schools."

Should this be worrisome because it definitely doesn't sound ideal...


He's talking about T14 people (or strong regional with good grades) that have ties to the state which is really not that many people. I mean yes it makes it harder for Minnesota grads to get those jobs but it isn't so many people that it is absurd. Compare that to GW where you are the second best school in the city not to mention the fact that you are in the most competitive legal market in the country that is being flooded by T14 + law review types.

If you're afraid of competition from schools outside the area, you have far more to be afraid of at GW than you would at Minnesota.


Look, OP should not take either of these choices. Getting a job in Minn will be tough and the degree is not marketable outside of Minnesota. Furthermore, those people (of which there are "really not many" - this is patently false...) at T14s/strong non-T14 nationals will be able to reach back. I'm currently working in a smaller market where I have those ties - most here are hometowners and very few went to the local school.

GW is a poor choice too because it's so expensive, but urging UMN is not the right course. Someone suggested getting WE then EDing NU; I think that this is the correct choice.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Minnesota VS GW

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:45 pm

So when Minnesota is lumped in with WUSTL/UIUC/NDLS, that is completely wrong? Seems like people are making it out to be more like IU.




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