I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

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aero88
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I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby aero88 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:13 pm

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Last edited by aero88 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:16 pm

I would definitely apply EARLY next year. You have a very good shot at Columbia, and can definitely get more scholarship money from the other schools as well. I'd say you even have a shot at Harvard.

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kwais
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby kwais » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:18 pm

I think you'll snag one of CN if you apply early. But ask yourself this. Is the thought of maybe attending CN for sticker next year more attractive to you than attending Penn for sticker this year?

dabbadon8
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby dabbadon8 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:19 pm

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Stringer Bell
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:21 pm

I would w/o a doubt take the money at Duke over Penn sticker.

CanadianWolf
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:24 pm

Penn is a great law school with a student friendly grading system. An LSAT of 172 & a 4.0 GPA is a great combination. Based on your prior LSAT experiences, the only reasonable advice that I offer is --don't retake. Attend Penn, Duke or Cornell or reapply, but waitlist openings can & do occur in August.

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Dany
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby Dany » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:27 pm

With a 172/4.0 I would certainly reapply. You'll get at least one of NYU/Columbia, and probably money at NYU - http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,8&type=jd (The only one without a listed scholarship there didn't put amounts for any school, and I'm willing to bet they got a scholarship as well.) And I think either of those options are better than Penn at sticker.

If you must go this year, I would take the money at Duke. But seriously, reapply. Best of luck to you!

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ndirish2010
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:12 pm

Reapply. You'll get at least one of CN and possibly H. No way Penn at sticker is worth it compared to those options. If you must go this year, Duke or Cornell.

fingersxd
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby fingersxd » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:03 am

If you must go this year both Duke and Cornell > Penn.

Otherwise, take the year off and reapply. You have a great shot at Columbia/NYU (would be surprised if your #'s weren't enough), and if you can get a decent job in the meantime, it will only help your resume/application and let you save some $ for school. If your PS is only avg. take this opportunity to bring it up a notch or two and then apply early.

Good luck.

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robotclubmember
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:19 pm

kwais wrote:I think you'll snag one of CN if you apply early. But ask yourself this. Is the thought of maybe attending CN for sticker next year more attractive to you than attending Penn for sticker this year?


This is a great question.

People on this forum are very right to note that if you apply early next year, you will get better results. But if you want Columbia, expect to pay sticker, in which case the question above is very valid. If your goal is big law, then by waiting a year, you get to go to a slightly better school, but by waiting a year to begin your career you lose $160K in salary. That is a huge opportunity cost that, to be honest, isn't worth waiting another year for. Penn will give you great opportunities, and I don't think that Columbia over Penn will make up for that lost $160K of income.

What is your goal, and what are you doing now? Putting your life on hold just to go to a slightly better school may not be the best decision when you dig a little deeper into it.

duckmoney
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:30 pm

If you have something useful to do with your life next year, reapply.

If not, go to Duke and remain on the Columbia waitlist.

fingersxd
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby fingersxd » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:33 pm

OP, you had no luck negotiating with Penn? I would think they would at least throw you some token $ to get close to Duke/Cornell.

Btw, why the fixation with Penn? Seems like Duke/Cornell with scholly $ are better options.

That said, attending Penn at sticker now does NOT mean giving up 160k. Reapplying gives you a shot at better scholly's and the opportunity to make some $ while working for a year. Not like BigLaw is garunteed anyway.

dabbadon8
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby dabbadon8 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:42 pm

OP hasn't posted again but I would guess he deposited at Penn and Duke/Cornell aren't options anymore.

duckmoney
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:45 pm

fingersxd wrote:OP, you had no luck negotiating with Penn? I would think they would at least throw you some token $ to get close to Duke/Cornell.

Btw, why the fixation with Penn? Seems like Duke/Cornell with scholly $ are better options.

That said, attending Penn at sticker now does NOT mean giving up 160k. Reapplying gives you a shot at better scholly's and the opportunity to make some $ while working for a year. Not like BigLaw is garunteed anyway.


It's not guaranteed that you'll be giving up 160k by delaying for a year, but there's a real chance that you will, or at least close to it.

At Penn, for example, in 2009 88% of grads were employed in either the private sector or federal clerkships. That 25th percentile private salary was $160,000. So, if you opt for private sector work, there's a very a realistic chance that you will get a market paying job out of Penn next year. When you graduate in 2014, you will with $150k of debt (in tuition) but make $160k in salary.

If you reapply next year, will the salary you make next year + the scholarship you receive be greater than the $160k you would have been making in 2014? If so, reapply. If not, go now.

But you should still go to Duke and not Penn, because that scholarship is way better.

fingersxd
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby fingersxd » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:46 pm

Silly rabbit.

duckmoney
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:49 pm

duckmoney wrote:
fingersxd wrote:OP, you had no luck negotiating with Penn? I would think they would at least throw you some token $ to get close to Duke/Cornell.

Btw, why the fixation with Penn? Seems like Duke/Cornell with scholly $ are better options.

That said, attending Penn at sticker now does NOT mean giving up 160k. Reapplying gives you a shot at better scholly's and the opportunity to make some $ while working for a year. Not like BigLaw is garunteed anyway.


It's not guaranteed that you'll be giving up 160k by delaying for a year, but there's a real chance that you will, or at least close to it.

At Penn, for example, in 2009 88% of grads were employed in either the private sector or federal clerkships. That 25th percentile private salary was $160,000. So, if you opt for private sector work, there's a very a realistic chance that you will get a market paying job out of Penn next year. When you graduate in 2014, you will with $150k of debt (in tuition) but make $160k in salary.

If you reapply next year, will the salary you make next year + the scholarship you receive be greater than the $160k you would have been making in 2014? If so, reapply. If not, go now.

But you should still go to Duke and not Penn, because that scholarship is way better.


Also, you would need to account for interest payments on the debt in the analysis.

aero88
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby aero88 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:11 pm

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Last edited by aero88 on Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

duckmoney
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby duckmoney » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:17 pm

Your cycle this year was not standard. You should have gotten in to better schools and received more scholarships. That said, it is very likely that this is due to late applications, although there is no guarantee that you will fair better next year. If you did poorly do to poor resume / personal statement / letters of rec, and not as much from your late application, then you won't fare much better reapplying.
Last edited by duckmoney on Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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loomstate
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Re: I have a hard decision about T14 schools. Need your advice!

Postby loomstate » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:58 pm

If I were in your shoes, I would definitely hold out and reapply. If you get into CNH next cycle, you don't necessarily have to attend, but it will make your decision a more balanced one that will reflect your true potential as an applicant.

I would also actively research (on TLS or other sites) how to negotiate scholarships. Better scholarships at lesser T14s next cycle could yield some monies at schools you didn't even get into this cycle, which could effectively make your decision for you. Overall, just try to stay level headed and focussed on the big picture. BTW congrats on your numbers and admits - you're in a great position. Cheers.




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