Syracuse $$ vs. California Western $$ Forum

[yerlaw1]

Hi everyone, long time lurker.

I need to make a decision in a few days. I have received 1/3 tuition from both schools. I know that going to Cal W would limit me to the San Diego area which I would be fine with, but knowing the attrition rate, the low job outlook and the school's T4 ranking makes me think a little more about attending. I have heard that Syracuse has more national mobility, but to what extent is the question. Though it is a T2 school and has strong joint degrees such as the MBA which I want to attain, so going to Syracuse may be better for the JD/MBA, as Cal W offers a joint degree MBA with a non-ranked school, SDSU.

I am still not sure which is the right decision, is the transition to Syracuse in order to obtain a higher ranked JD and MBA degree but without certainty that I would end up working in CA worth more than going to Cal W, a school in the state I would like to end up living and working but has a lower rank and higher attrition rate? I would like to get my JD/MBA regardless, so base a decision on that also.

Thanks

[snapdragon]

I don't mean to sound terribly harsh, but here are my opinions on this subject:

It is going to be difficult to get a job out of either of these schools in this market. You will almost certainly not get a job in CA coming from Syracuse (unless you have a connection that's promising to hire you, in which case it doesn't really matter much where you go to school).

I am unfamiliar with the California market, so let me just say that attending a fourth tier school without a full scholarship and free cost of living in a state with several competitive/solid T1s (Stanford, Boalt, UCLA, USC, UC Davis, UC Hastings are all T1, and Pepperdine, UC Irvine, Loyola, Santa Clara, USD, USF and probably others are higher ranked than Cal Western) is an extremely risky proposition that I would not recommend to anyone without a guaranteed job.

With regards to Syracuse, it is certainly a stronger school, but still very expensive. 1/3 tuition scholarship is great, but that will still leave you with well into 6 figures of debt, which will be difficult to manage with a JD from Syracuse. Also, Syracuse grads chiefly find employment in the NY or Mid Atlantic area (49.5% of the class of 09 found employment in NJ, NY or PA. An additional 16.2% were in South Atlantic. Only 3.2% were in the Pacific, which encompasses CA, AK, WA, OR and HI.) A Syracuse JD probably has a better shot at getting you a job than a Cal Western JD, but there is a 96.8% chance that job will not be in CA.

These schools with these price ranges are both risky choices. They will both leave you with a level of debt that you will most likely struggle to pay. Neither is great for finding a legal job in California. If working in CA is your goal, I would consider trying again next application cycle, perhaps retaking the LSAT to strengthen your app, and focusing on some of the other Cali schools. I am surprised you got 1/3 tuition at Syracuse and are not seeing similar packages at USD or Loyola. If you absolutely must attend this year, I would choose Syracuse over Cal Western, but understand that you're not going to get a CA job without a huge amount of legwork, connections and luck.

I can't really speak to the JD/MBA question, but I'd advise you to do a forum search and read some of the threads about it.

Best of luck.

[TheFactor]

I am still not sure which is the right decision, is the transition to Syracuse in order to obtain a higher ranked JD and MBA degree but without certainty that I would end up working in CA worth more than going to Cal W, a school in the state I would like to end up living and working but has a lower rank and higher attrition rate?

Was convinced this was NOT a flame until I came across this sentence.

[ndirish2010]

If a flame, pretty pathetic. If not, neither.

[yerlaw1]

Not a flame, I know this is not as exciting as T 14 or T1 material, but if you could comment between these two choices without saying flame or neither, that would be great. Thank you

[ndirish2010]

Not a flame, I know this is not as exciting as T 14 or T1 material, but if you could comment between these two choices without saying flame or neither, that would be great. Thank you

Pretty difficult. Both of these schools are awful and nobody should go. Cuse I can see MAYBE on a full ride.

[vb007]

I know there are some big firms in SD with associates/partners from Cal Western. Cannot say the same for Syracuse.

[CanadianWolf]

What are your stats ? I ask because your LSAT is most likely 158 or 159--which should be enough for Loyola Marymount & many other law schools. Are these your only options ? Or your only options with scholarships ? Do you currently live in the San Diego area ? I ask because Syracuse, New York is a very different environment.

Based on your current choices, Syracuse is the better option overall, but may not be for California.

[yerlaw1]

What are your stats ? I ask because your LSAT is most likely 158 or 159--which should be enough for Loyola Marymount & many other law schools. Are these your only options ? Or your only options with scholarships ? Do you currently live in the San Diego area ? I ask because Syracuse, New York is a very different environment.

Based on your current choices, Syracuse is the better option overall, but may not be for California.

I understand Syracuse is a total change from So Cal, that is why I am wondering if it is worth it.

Anyone else have any advice, I am looking to go to school this fall no matter what.

[bk1]

Anyone else have any advice

My advice is not to do this:

I am looking to go to school this fall no matter what.

[OnceUponAMemo]

OP, where are you from and have you been to Syracuse?

Just asking because I went there for undergrad and while I had a ball, going to law school in that cold/gray environment would be a complete 180 from California Western. Also, Syracuse does not have a very strong MBA program, they do have one, but their MBA program is not going to open many/any doors on its own. They have a terrific MPA program which could open some doors and a lot of people go there for the dual MPA/JD program which still allows you to graduate in 3.5 yrs.

From purely anecdotal evidence, a lot of SU law grads ended up staying in the greater Onondaga region (area around Syracuse) or working in Albany/Buffalo. Just make sure whatever you decide it is an informed decision as it does not seem you have done all that much research into these 2 schools thus far.

Good luck.

[yerlaw1]

OP, where are you from and have you been to Syracuse?

Just asking because I went there for undergrad and while I had a ball, going to law school in that cold/gray environment would be a complete 180 from California Western. Also, Syracuse does not have a very strong MBA program, they do have one, but their MBA program is not going to open many/any doors on its own. They have a terrific MPA program which could open some doors and a lot of people go there for the dual MPA/JD program which still allows you to graduate in 3.5 yrs.

From purely anecdotal evidence, a lot of SU law grads ended up staying in the greater Onondaga region (area around Syracuse) or working in Albany/Buffalo. Just make sure whatever you decide it is an informed decision as it does not seem you have done all that much research into these 2 schools thus far.

Good luck.

I am from So Cal.

Yes I have been to Syracuse, but visited during the time when the weather was not harsh as everyone says. Since you have lived in Syracuse for your undergrad, how is the weather like in the fall and winter other than the obvious it is cold and it snows. For instance, as you mentioned, are there a lot of overcast days, or is it sunny half the time, etc.

If being ranked 69 out of 500 or more business schools is not strong, then yes, it is not a very strong one, but when compared to SDSU's MBA, which is not ranked, it looks more worthwhile.

I am really trying to come back to CA after I graduate, I am wondering if it is difficult to get an intern job in LA for the summer after 1L coming from Syracuse. If not, then would Cal W be a right choice between these two schools?

[bk1]

I am really trying to come back to CA after I graduate

Then you should retake/reapply.

[bogart]

If you want Cal then you should stay in the area and attempt to meet as many employers as possible (attend cle's, intern, etc..) that will be your best chance at getting someone to take you on. Basically, from a school like cal west you need to make personal connections. Are there any other schools in the area? you could probably do better than cal west.

MBA program rank is really only worth while for the first 15 or so schools. After that the are all pretty much the same. Cuse has a pretty impressive alumni list, but the thing with an mba is that it is not necesarily needed to get into corporate whereas a law degree is required to get a law job. I realize this is pointing out the obvious, but it is something to consider. Perhaps you could work with your ug degree and then apply for stronger mba programs with your work experience.

As for syracuse weather it snows a lot more than any other place, but other than that it is typical northeastern weather. The good is that the fall is amazing with trees that look like their burining, and a white christmas beats santa on the beach. The spring sucks in ny as it rains all the time and the summer can get muggy; but these are problems everywhere in ny,nj,ne.

Good luck to you.

[NYCbound35]

just get an MBA

[OnceUponAMemo]

If you want Cal then you should stay in the area and attempt to meet as many employers as possible (attend cle's, intern, etc..) that will be your best chance at getting someone to take you on. Basically, from a school like cal west you need to make personal connections. Are there any other schools in the area? you could probably do better than cal west.

MBA program rank is really only worth while for the first 15 or so schools. After that the are all pretty much the same. Cuse has a pretty impressive alumni list, but the thing with an mba is that it is not necesarily needed to get into corporate whereas a law degree is required to get a law job. I realize this is pointing out the obvious, but it is something to consider. Perhaps you could work with your ug degree and then apply for stronger mba programs with your work experience.

As for syracuse weather it snows a lot more than any other place, but other than that it is typical northeastern weather. The good is that the fall is amazing with trees that look like their burining, and a white christmas beats santa on the beach. The spring sucks in ny as it rains all the time and the summer can get muggy; but these are problems everywhere in ny,nj,ne.

Good luck to you.

This is all exactly what I would have said except for the weather part. Fall actually is very nice and similar to most northeastern region fall seasons. Winter however lasts from late November/December to around April and it is grey all.the.time. It is not at all uncommon for there to be 2-3 week spans where the sun doesn't come out because of all the lake effect condensation and snow.

If you prefer to be in CA, then Syracuse is not a great choice without very strong ties to CA.