Best schools for St. Louis jobs

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punkyg0608
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Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby punkyg0608 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:14 pm

Hey everyone,

I just recently received my LSAT score so now it's time to figure out what schools I should consider. I live in St. Louis and the one thing I know is that I want to return to St. Louis after law school. I don't know what type of law to go into, but I'm interested in possibly working for a mid to large STL firm or possibly a clerkship. Ideally, I want a good salary without ridiculous work hours. I got a 170 with a 3.7 GPA, so I have lots of options.

With this in mind, I'm really stuck. Should I look at expensive, far-away T15 schools like Penn, Georgetown, and Cornell? Is it better to focus on solid Midwest schools like Iowa, Notre Dame, and Indiana, hoping to get some money? Or since I want to stay in St. Louis, would it be better to stay in Missouri, and consider WUSTL and U of Missouri, hoping for lots of money and solid STL connections?

I really want to go to the best school possible, but I don't need connections to BigLaw in NYC, Chicago, or DC, so is it even worth paying the big bucks to go to a highly ranked school? Thanks!

09042014
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:16 pm

Why would you consider far away T14 and not midwestern T14 like Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern?

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emciosn
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:18 pm

With your scores WUSTL will give you a big scholarship (they are very generous with $, especially with high LSAT). If you want to stay in St. Louis anyway WUSTL does just as good placing in MO or STL as any T14 school (well, at least almost as good, Yale looks good no matter where you are). Get a big scholarship from WUSTL and graduate with very little debt so you can take a job that doesn't have killer hours.

Do not go to Mizzou with those numbers. Nowhere outside the top 20. WUSTL should be your lowest option and they will give you a good scholarship so there is not need to go lower.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:19 pm

Other than the obvious (HYS with ties), I'd probably say:

Chicago
Northwestern/Michigan
Rest of T14
WUSTL
ND/UIUC/Iowa/Minnesota/IU
SLU
Mizzou

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emciosn
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:23 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Other than the obvious (HYS with ties), I'd probably say:

Chicago
Northwestern/Michigan
Rest of T14
WUSTL
ND/UIUC/Iowa/Minnesota/IU
SLU
Mizzou


I don't really think you need to waste your time on Mizzou and SLU. I think you should pick one or two from the ND/UIUC/Iowa/Minn/IU group for safety then apply to WUSTL and the the T14 schools mentioned above. You will get fee waivers to a lot of these places so money probably won't be an issue if you want to apply to the lower ranked schools. I just hated filling out LS apps and wouldn't want to do any more than absolutely necessary.

09042014
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:29 pm

emciosn wrote:With your scores WUSTL will give you a big scholarship (they are very generous with $, especially with high LSAT). If you want to stay in St. Louis anyway WUSTL does just as good placing in MO or STL as any T14 school (well, at least almost as good, Yale looks good no matter where you are). Get a big scholarship from WUSTL and graduate with very little debt so you can take a job that doesn't have killer hours.

Do not go to Mizzou with those numbers. Nowhere outside the top 20. WUSTL should be your lowest option and they will give you a good scholarship so there is not need to go lower.


I doubt this is true.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
emciosn wrote:With your scores WUSTL will give you a big scholarship (they are very generous with $, especially with high LSAT). If you want to stay in St. Louis anyway WUSTL does just as good placing in MO or STL as any T14 school (well, at least almost as good, Yale looks good no matter where you are). Get a big scholarship from WUSTL and graduate with very little debt so you can take a job that doesn't have killer hours.

Do not go to Mizzou with those numbers. Nowhere outside the top 20. WUSTL should be your lowest option and they will give you a good scholarship so there is not need to go lower.


I doubt this is true.


It may be if you have no previous ties to St Louis. However, many St Louis firms may not consider simply attending WUSTL enough.

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emciosn
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:42 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
emciosn wrote:With your scores WUSTL will give you a big scholarship (they are very generous with $, especially with high LSAT). If you want to stay in St. Louis anyway WUSTL does just as good placing in MO or STL as any T14 school (well, at least almost as good, Yale looks good no matter where you are). Get a big scholarship from WUSTL and graduate with very little debt so you can take a job that doesn't have killer hours.

Do not go to Mizzou with those numbers. Nowhere outside the top 20. WUSTL should be your lowest option and they will give you a good scholarship so there is not need to go lower.


I doubt this is true.


It may be if you have no previous ties to St Louis. However, many St Louis firms may not consider simply attending WUSTL enough.


Obviously a T14 would look good in STL or wherever but T14 grads aren't really rushing to STL to work so you probably won't run into them for competition. I'm just saying if OP wants to stay in STL and gets the most scholarship money from WUSTL that would be the obvious choice. I don't think it would be that much harder to get an STL job from WUSTL than from say Northwestern (assuming decent grades). EDIT: and having less debt would be a big advantage if OP wants to not work 90 hours per week.

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punkyg0608
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby punkyg0608 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:48 pm

That's definitely an option, but I'm not confident I would get into either Northwestern or Chicago. From what i've heard, even if I did get accepted I would get little to no scholarship money, and those are very expensive schools. Michigan is a more viable option, but even that would be costly compared to lower tuition and better shcolarship money from schools like Iowa and Indiana. Do you think the benefit of T11 is worth the extra cost if I know I'm going back to St. Louis?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:51 pm

punkyg0608 wrote:That's definitely an option, but I'm not confident I would get into either Northwestern or Chicago. From what i've heard, even if I did get accepted I would get little to no scholarship money, and those are very expensive schools. Michigan is a more viable option, but even that would be costly compared to lower tuition and better shcolarship money from schools like Iowa and Indiana. Do you think the benefit of T11 is worth the extra cost if I know I'm going back to St. Louis?


Might be the first time I've ever seen "T11" on these boards.

Michigan is A LOT better than WUSTL. But I'm not familiar with how these schools are viewed particularly in the St Louis market.

09042014
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:57 pm

Another consideration is would you rather live in NYC/Chi and make 160K or St. Louis making 40K?

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punkyg0608
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby punkyg0608 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Another consideration is would you rather live in NYC/Chi and make 160K or St. Louis making 40K?



Is that really a fair question? I'm pretty sure those aren't the only two options. How about 100K in St. Louis?

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emciosn
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:06 pm

It sounds to me like you want to graduate with low debt and live in STL. Some on these boards will say "no you really want to take on the debt of a higher ranked school and live in NYC and make more money." I think if you apply to the schools ndirish gave you above you will get some good scholarship $ from schools 15-30. Who knows, maybe you'll even get lucky and get a little money from a T14, not very likely though. Just go to the highest ranked school that gives you $$ (probably WUSTL given your numbers and interests).
Last edited by emciosn on Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:10 pm

punkyg0608 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Another consideration is would you rather live in NYC/Chi and make 160K or St. Louis making 40K?



Is that really a fair question? I'm pretty sure those aren't the only two options. How about 100K in St. Louis?


Because if you go to a school like Chicago, NW, or Michigan you have a 60% of getting a job paying 145K+, and at WUSTL it's 20% or less. So even if WUSTL places just as well as Michigan in St. louis, which it almost certainly doesn't, there are other opportunities in other cities.

OP needs to apply to Chicago, all the lower T14, and WUSTL. See what scholarship offers he gets. Mich or NW might throw money at him. Deciding to forgoe them now is bad choice.

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emciosn
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:12 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
punkyg0608 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Another consideration is would you rather live in NYC/Chi and make 160K or St. Louis making 40K?



Is that really a fair question? I'm pretty sure those aren't the only two options. How about 100K in St. Louis?


Because if you go to a school like Chicago, NW, or Michigan you have a 60% of getting a job paying 145K+, and at WUSTL it's 20% or less. So even if WUSTL places just as well as Michigan in St. louis, which it almost certainly doesn't, there are other opportunities in other cities.

OP needs to apply to Chicago, all the lower T14, and WUSTL. See what scholarship offers he gets. Mich or NW might throw money at him. Deciding to forgoe them now is bad choice.



Yes, OP should definitely apply to all those schools.

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beachbum
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby beachbum » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:15 pm

FWIW, I was in a similar situation* and decided to attend Duke. It sounds like you already have substantial ties to St. Louis, and the T14 degree will distinguish you from the standard SLU/Mizzou/WUSTL group. Of course, the cost/benefit calculus is going to be specific to your situation and preferences. A t14 school is going to cost substantially more than WUSTL (which will likely throw a lot of money your way), but will give you a much better shot at Biglaw. The value of increased job prospects is up to you. (For this reason, I'd probably avoid EDing anywhere so that you're able to compare offers and negotiate).


*Though my GPA wasn't as good (so I wasn't expecting any big scholarships) and I wasn't completely STL-or-bust.

oktransferok
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby oktransferok » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:29 pm

Have you lived anywhere else besides St. Louis? I get it that you grew up there/have family there, but, St. Louis is not exactly paradise. I guess if you have to live in St. Louis 100% just go to WUSTL with $$$.

Redfactor
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby Redfactor » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:36 pm

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Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thelawschoolproject
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby thelawschoolproject » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:43 pm

I'm glad that you created this thread, because I'm wondering the same things.

However, what I have been told by a few STL lawyers is that certain big name firms only higher from SLU (which is currently ranked much higher than Mizzou, oddly enough). In fact, quite a few firms in STL don't look favorably on WashU grads because many of them don't have ties to the city, however if you do, you may fair better.

Definitely don't go the Mizzou route. Their law degree continues to devalue, year after year. You don't want to go down with that ship, unless you plan to do Missouri politics, in which case, being a Tiger is a major vote getter.

I mean, it's obvious that any T-14 is going to have major name recognition and is going to have a wealth of OCI's and placement opportunities, but if you know that you want STL, I think it's probably best to already be in STL that way you can become involved in the community.

For that reason, I'd probably do WashU or SLU, depending on what kind of scholarship offer you get. I from the STL area and what I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, is that people in this area higher their own. They want people committed to STL, not people looking for a nice paycheck waiting to move out east, which is their perception of many T-14 grads.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby Stringer Bell » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:46 pm

Redfactor wrote:NALP shows that the top firms in St. Louis are paying between 100k and 125k for their entry-level associates. And none of these firms that reported to NALP are doing OCI at Michigan... yet *all* are recruiting from WUSTL.




Since NALP shows 7 St. Louis offices at WUSTL's OCI and 4 at NU's, does that make NU TCR here?
Last edited by Stringer Bell on Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mcr2011
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby mcr2011 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:46 pm

I'm looking at a number of different schools, and I'm trying to figure out what region or city I want to work in when I graduate, because that's obviously a big factor. My numbers aren't good enough to get into a school with enough prestige to be able to comfortably find a job throughout the country. There are different regions that I could see myself living in, but unfortunately there are several, and regions are pretty big, so I'm having a hard time narrowing it down.

Anyways, I go to school in Missouri now, so I'm familiar with the St. Louis area, and it's one place in particular that I could see myself working/living in for the rest of my life. I'm looking at a handful of schools in the Midwest (I'm interested in Midwest cities other than STL as well), but I'm having a hard time figuring out the job prospects in the surrounding areas of each school, specifically for the St. Louis area. Obviously for schools like Missouri, and probably Iowa, I'd be able to get a job in St. Louis. But I can't find any concrete information on the St. Louis job prospects for schools such as Indiana and Wisconsin.

Does anyone know if law degrees from Indiana or Wisconsin carry any weight in St. Louis?

09042014
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:50 pm

Redfactor wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
punkyg0608 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Another consideration is would you rather live in NYC/Chi and make 160K or St. Louis making 40K?



Is that really a fair question? I'm pretty sure those aren't the only two options. How about 100K in St. Louis?


Because if you go to a school like Chicago, NW, or Michigan you have a 60% of getting a job paying 145K+, and at WUSTL it's 20% or less. So even if WUSTL places just as well as Michigan in St. louis, which it almost certainly doesn't, there are other opportunities in other cities.

OP needs to apply to Chicago, all the lower T14, and WUSTL. See what scholarship offers he gets. Mich or NW might throw money at him. Deciding to forgoe them now is bad choice.



I might be mistaken (I'm an 0L), but I don't think that's the way it works.

Those employment statistics are great, but they don't tell an accurate story. The firms in St. Louis are going to pay x amount of money for an entry-level associate. It doesn't matter if you came from Yale or Cooley. If you're coming in as an associate, you're going to get X.

So, while Michigan has a *much* greater ability to place their graduates in higher paying jobs, those 145k+ a year starting jobs just aren't in St. Louis (at least many of them).

NALP shows that the top firms in St. Louis are paying between 100k and 125k for their entry-level associates. And none of these firms that reported to NALP are doing OCI at Michigan... yet *all* are recruiting from WUSTL.


If you can get a strong scholarship from a T14, by all means, go for it. But if it's sticker, a marginal scholarship, or a strict stipulation to keep a scholarship, then I would strongly consider the close-to-full ride I anticipate WUSTL to send your way.


Either I am unclear as fuck, or you can't comprehend what I'm saying.

I mean Michigan students have opportunities in other cities.

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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby Redfactor » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:48 pm

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Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:53 pm

Redfactor wrote:
You're right. I didn't read correctly.

Yes, Michigan (or any T14) is going to have significantly better mobility than a degree from WUSTL. But since OP wants to work only in St Louis, this point is moot.


I was trying to find out if he'd rather work in Stl for shit money or nyc for a lot.

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punkyg0608
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Re: Best schools for St. Louis jobs

Postby punkyg0608 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:05 pm

oktransferok wrote:Have you lived anywhere else besides St. Louis? I get it that you grew up there/have family there, but, St. Louis is not exactly paradise. I guess if you have to live in St. Louis 100% just go to WUSTL with $$$.


Nope, I've never lived outside of Missouri, and I know that I want to work in St. Louis after law school. I know it's not exactly paradise, but with all my family and friends here I've become very attached. I realize some of you may think I'm crazy but I'd rather have a lower salary and stay in St. Louis than give up everything and move to a bigger city.

I would like to leave Missouri for law school though. If WUSTL is the best option for me I'll suck it up, but it'd be really nice to get out of the state for just a few years. Maybe Notre Dame or Iowa would be just as respected in St. Louis as Wash U???




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