45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

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uclablue77
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45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby uclablue77 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:59 pm

$45,000 (still not THAT great) @ Cal Western or Chapman at sticker. Unfortunately because of personal reasons I applied late in the cycle so these are my options. As a 29 year old, applying 2012 is not an option at this point. I like Chapman because of it's Orange County/Los Angeles location, it's reputation in Orange Country, and it's drive to become a better law school and to help their students. But Cal West is right there because of it's scholly offer, alumni base, and it's reputation in San Diego (surprisingly not bad), and I would probably finish higher in my class. A main concern is debt and job opportunities post graduation, especially with Chapman at sticker... At this point it's almost a coin flip. What are your thoughts???!!

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bk1
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:02 pm

Retake and reapply. These schools at this much debt are just a bad idea.

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swilson215
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby swilson215 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:06 pm

uclablue77 wrote:$45,000 (still not THAT great) @ Cal Western or Chapman at sticker. Unfortunately because of personal reasons I applied late in the cycle so these are my options. As a 29 year old, applying 2012 is not an option at this point. I like Chapman because of it's Orange County/Los Angeles location, it's reputation in Orange Country, and it's drive to become a better law school and to help their students. But Cal West is right there because of it's scholly offer, alumni base, and it's reputation in San Diego (surprisingly not bad), and I would probably finish higher in my class. A main concern is debt and job opportunities post graduation, especially with Chapman at sticker... At this point it's almost a coin flip. What are your thoughts???!!


Never ever think this. Ever. It's completely unpredictable. As far as where to choose goes, I think you're right, it is a coin flip. It really depends on where you want to practice in the end. You're not going to get much mobility out of a Chapman degree, and you'll get even less from a Cal Western degree. Personally I'd go with Chapman. But I have a few friends at Cal Western that like it.

Fundamentally, though, I kind of agree with bk1. But I know that the OP said that wasn't an option. At some point, you've just gotta let people do what they're going to do.

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ndirish2010
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:07 pm

uclablue77 wrote:$45,000 (still not THAT great) @ Cal Western or Chapman at sticker. Unfortunately because of personal reasons I applied late in the cycle so these are my options. As a 29 year old, applying 2012 is not an option at this point. I like Chapman because of it's Orange County/Los Angeles location, it's reputation in Orange Country, and it's drive to become a better law school and to help their students. But Cal West is right there because of it's scholly offer, alumni base, and it's reputation in San Diego (surprisingly not bad), and I would probably finish higher in my class. A main concern is debt and job opportunities post graduation, especially with Chapman at sticker... At this point it's almost a coin flip. What are your thoughts???!!


Apply when you're 30. Or 35. Both of these schools are TERRIBLE ideas.

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rinkrat19
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:09 pm

uclablue77 wrote:As a 29 year old, applying 2012 is not an option at this point.

As a 31-year-old who is actually deferring her acceptance a year, I call BS. I see this all the time and it's retarded. The world will not end if you wait a year and actually get into a school worth attending. In fact, your world will be a better place.

Retake or don't go, unless you like trying to service 6 figures of debt on $40k/year.

(edited for the spellingz)
Last edited by rinkrat19 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

scammedhard
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:11 pm

Every year (and for the foreseeable future) there are about 25K attorney positions for about 50K job seekers. What do you think your chances of getting a job will be if you graduate from either of these schools? I don't care if you are 65 years old; this advice applies to everyone with your options or similar ones, irrespective of age: Retake/Reapply (early), or quite simply don't go to law school.

uclablue77
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby uclablue77 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:16 pm

Thanks for the feedback, I agree with most of you, it is a tough situation. At this point I am making NO money practically. I feel as though another year lost is another year where i could be cashing a paycheck, and paying off student loans. But as it was said, it is really unpredictable to foresee my next lsat score or how competitive it will be next cycle

scammedhard
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:23 pm

uclablue77 wrote:Thanks for the feedback, I agree with most of you, it is a tough situation. At this point I am making NO money practically. I feel as though another year lost is another year where i could be cashing a paycheck, and paying off student loans. But as it was said, it is really unpredictable to foresee my next lsat score or how competitive it will be next cycle

By attending these schools, you are only going to kick the unemployment/underemployment can down the road for about 3 years. It's not a feasible solution. To make matters worse, if you attend these schools, you are also going to create a second "can:" a massive, non-dischargeable law school debt can.

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bk1
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:36 pm

uclablue77 wrote:Thanks for the feedback, I agree with most of you, it is a tough situation. At this point I am making NO money practically. I feel as though another year lost is another year where i could be cashing a paycheck, and paying off student loans. But as it was said, it is really unpredictable to foresee my next lsat score or how competitive it will be next cycle


1. You won't necessarily be cashing a paycheck coming out of these schools and the loans you would have to pay off are exorbitant.

2. You can foresee approximately what your next LSAT will be by studying and taking a bunch of PTs.

3. Next cycle's competitiveness will not be drastically different than this one.

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Mick Haller
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:42 pm

2/3 to 3/4 scholarships at Loyola and USD are fairly easily had. If you arent attending UCLA, Boalt, or a T14 school, it makes sense to go to a cheap school.

Chapman is not that much better than Cal Western. If current employment trends hold true, you are going to struggle (mightily) to find a legal job out of either school.

(<--- struggling Hastings student, top 25% of class)

uclablue77
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby uclablue77 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:06 pm

Right, but realistically, when one retakes/reapplies, what are the chances of actually receiving substantially better offers that would include half tuition or better? I would think not that great. THAT is a great gamble.

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bk1
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:07 pm

uclablue77 wrote:Right, but realistically, when one retakes/reapplies, what are the chances of actually receiving substantially better offers that would include half tuition or better? I would think not that great. THAT is a great gamble.


They are that great. As a separate example, the difference between getting accepted and rejected at some schools is a single LSAT point.

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Mick Haller
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:19 pm

3.5/165 would get 1/2 tuition or better at many CA T2s. GPA req.? Of course, but I am one who thinks dropping out in the event one loses a scholarship is a smart decision.

uclablue77
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby uclablue77 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:22 pm

LSAT 153 3.44 gpa URM, I would have a ways to go I would think

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mpj_3050
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby mpj_3050 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:27 pm

Holy Jesus don't do it kid. These schools are way too expensive in tuition alone. Factor in the high cost of living and you get the point. With these debt amounts it doesn't make sense unless you have massive familial resources to assist you.

atashakor
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby atashakor » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:28 pm

what makes u think ur going to be ranked better at calwestern?
Calwestern has a high attrition rate, and it is very competetive, and the students that go there tend to come from good undergrad schools....and i know few doctor's and PHDs who go to cwsl...
so best advise don't go with the idea that you will be the top student, I would choose Calwestern over Chapman...and if you do be ready to work your butt of cuz the curve and the competition is no Joke.

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bk1
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby bk1 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:29 pm

uclablue77 wrote:LSAT 153 3.44 gpa URM, I would have a ways to go I would think


Depends how hard and well you studied for the LSAT. There are many people on this forum who have 150 LSATs who end up with 170's. Realistically you would need a 160+ to have some amazing results because you are a URM. Seriously, take a look at URMs on http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com and see what people with similar GPAs and 160+ LSATs can achieve.

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EstboundNDwn
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby EstboundNDwn » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:03 pm

Retake is the best option, obviously.

However, if I had a gun to my head I'd choose Chapman, because SD's legal market is complete shit.

Unless you're planning on going into intellectual property or environmental law, San Diego doesn't offer much for lawyers if you're not a T-14, USD, UCLA, USC, or Pepperdine grad.

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Shammis
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Re: 45,000 @ Cal Western or Chapman??

Postby Shammis » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:05 pm

SD also has some good tech and Health sectors...that being said, Cal Western is not going to put you in a place where you have a shot at a job with these. The SD market is small and specialized, choose Chapman over Cal, and retake Over Chapman if it's viable. Good luck with your choice.




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