--

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What do I do?

Go attend Vanderbilt
5
15%
Only attend this year if get off T14 WL
5
15%
Reapply
23
70%
 
Total votes: 33

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:15 pm

sharklasers wrote:
bk1 wrote:
sharklasers wrote:Often, but semi-serious here. How much extra money does he need to get to make burning a year of his life wise?


From Vandy? If they gave him an extra 15k+/year I'd say it is worth it. Assuming he stays afloat this year and isn't going negative in $ by taking a year off.

Otherwise, because of the bimodal salary distribution it's hard to talk in terms of pure $ when rating waiting a year versus getting into a school that places a chunk better.


So, first, you're saying he should wait a year for $45k over three years, not taking tuition hikes into account. That doesn't make sense, given what he'll make if he doesn't flame out and totally just fail overall, which he very well could, but we're assuming he won't for the sake of argument, and if he's going to fail (make < median) at Vandy he'll probably fail wherever he goes anyhow.

And then, second, you're talking about the bimodal salary distribution and trying to speculate about how a higher LSAT might get him up in the rankings enough to land a biglaw job versus a shitty or median job. There's a slightly higher % chance of making the money from a higher school, but the number of contingencies make this seem like an unsound reason to me. Basically, he'd have to do so much better at the hypothetical new school than he would've at Vandy to make it worth delaying a year. And let's face it, it's not like he's getting into Yale next year.


I'd wait a year for potential $$ at MVP. 10-15% increase in career prospects is not tiny.

sharklasers
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sharklasers » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:16 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
sharklasers wrote:
bk1 wrote:
sharklasers wrote:Often, but semi-serious here. How much extra money does he need to get to make burning a year of his life wise?


From Vandy? If they gave him an extra 15k+/year I'd say it is worth it. Assuming he stays afloat this year and isn't going negative in $ by taking a year off.

Otherwise, because of the bimodal salary distribution it's hard to talk in terms of pure $ when rating waiting a year versus getting into a school that places a chunk better.


So, first, you're saying he should wait a year for $45k over three years, not taking tuition hikes into account. That doesn't make sense, given what he'll make if he doesn't flame out and totally just fail overall, which he very well could, but we're assuming he won't for the sake of argument, and if he's going to fail (make < median) at Vandy he'll probably fail wherever he goes anyhow.

And then, second, you're talking about the bimodal salary distribution and trying to speculate about how a higher LSAT might get him up in the rankings enough to land a biglaw job versus a shitty or median job. There's a slightly higher % chance of making the money from a higher school, but the number of contingencies make this seem like an unsound reason to me. Basically, he'd have to do so much better at the hypothetical new school than he would've at Vandy to make it worth delaying a year. And let's face it, it's not like he's getting into Yale next year.


I'd wait a year for potential $$ at MVP. 10-15% increase in career prospects is not tiny.


What the hell does "10-15% increase in career prospects" mean?

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:18 pm

sharklasers wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
sharklasers wrote:
bk1 wrote:From Vandy? If they gave him an extra 15k+/year I'd say it is worth it. Assuming he stays afloat this year and isn't going negative in $ by taking a year off.

Otherwise, because of the bimodal salary distribution it's hard to talk in terms of pure $ when rating waiting a year versus getting into a school that places a chunk better.


So, first, you're saying he should wait a year for $45k over three years, not taking tuition hikes into account. That doesn't make sense, given what he'll make if he doesn't flame out and totally just fail overall, which he very well could, but we're assuming he won't for the sake of argument, and if he's going to fail (make < median) at Vandy he'll probably fail wherever he goes anyhow.

And then, second, you're talking about the bimodal salary distribution and trying to speculate about how a higher LSAT might get him up in the rankings enough to land a biglaw job versus a shitty or median job. There's a slightly higher % chance of making the money from a higher school, but the number of contingencies make this seem like an unsound reason to me. Basically, he'd have to do so much better at the hypothetical new school than he would've at Vandy to make it worth delaying a year. And let's face it, it's not like he's getting into Yale next year.


I'd wait a year for potential $$ at MVP. 10-15% increase in career prospects is not tiny.


What the hell does "10-15% increase in career prospects" mean?


Shot at biglaw/clerkships/prestigious PI

sharklasers
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sharklasers » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:22 pm

What the hell does "10-15% increase in career prospects" mean?


Shot at biglaw/clerkships/prestigious PI


This is just not quite right. Just because the school has better employment statistics, say, places 10-15% more people into biglaw, doesn't mean any student has 10-15% more of a chance to get biglaw at that school. If OP does badly, then he's fucked whether he's at Vandy or MVP. If OP does well, then he's going to do well from either Vandy or MVP--and reap the benefits of starting early if he just goes now. What you're saying is that if OP gets average grades, he has more cushion room at MVP--he can afford being at median rather than 70th percentile or something. But then you need to account for whatever % chance there is that OP is going to place into that magical gray area where MVP will actually pay off. I think there's no good way to know whether OP is going to land in that area, and the potential risk reduction isn't worth waiting a year.

It's not a straight-up +10-15% boost, like a video game or something. It's all very contingent on how OP is going to do, and he might as well go find out now. Unlike a random new applicant who can freely choose between V and MVP, OP is giving up a lot by waiting.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:24 pm

sharklasers wrote:
What the hell does "10-15% increase in career prospects" mean?


Shot at biglaw/clerkships/prestigious PI


This is just not quite right. Just because the school has better employment statistics, say, places 10-15% more people into biglaw, doesn't mean any student has 10-15% more of a chance to get biglaw at that school. If OP does badly, then he's fucked whether he's at Vandy or MVP. If OP does well, then he's going to do well from either Vandy or MVP--and reap the benefits of starting early if he just goes now. What you're saying is that if OP does "meh," he has more cushion room at MVP--he can afford being at median rather than 70th percentile or something. But then you need to account for whatever % chance there is that OP is going to place into that magical gray area where MVP will actually pay off. I think there's no good way to know that, and the potential risk reduction isn't worth waiting a year.


Why is waiting a year the end of the world? You have a terminal illness or something?

Total Litigator
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:17 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:25 pm

A great man once said, "A year out of law school is not a year wasted."

Or I might have just made that up. In any event, Benjamin Franklin would be like, WORD.

HeavenWood
Posts: 2915
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:26 pm

Total Litigator wrote:A great man once said, "A year out of law school is not a year wasted."

Or I might have just made that up. In any event, Benjamin Franklin would be like, WORD.


It's my fault for engaging a troll. I'm out.

Total Litigator
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:17 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:26 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
sharklasers wrote:
What the hell does "10-15% increase in career prospects" mean?


Shot at biglaw/clerkships/prestigious PI


This is just not quite right. Just because the school has better employment statistics, say, places 10-15% more people into biglaw, doesn't mean any student has 10-15% more of a chance to get biglaw at that school. If OP does badly, then he's fucked whether he's at Vandy or MVP. If OP does well, then he's going to do well from either Vandy or MVP--and reap the benefits of starting early if he just goes now. What you're saying is that if OP does "meh," he has more cushion room at MVP--he can afford being at median rather than 70th percentile or something. But then you need to account for whatever % chance there is that OP is going to place into that magical gray area where MVP will actually pay off. I think there's no good way to know that, and the potential risk reduction isn't worth waiting a year.


Why is waiting a year the end of the world? You have a terminal illness or something?


Yes. Its called LIFE.

Woaa, woaa, woaaaaaa

sharklasers
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sharklasers » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:27 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:A great man once said, "A year out of law school is not a year wasted."

Or I might have just made that up. In any event, Benjamin Franklin would be like, WORD.


It's my fault for engaging a troll. I'm out.


I'm just here to poke holes in your knee jerk nonsense.

duckmoney
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby duckmoney » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:30 pm

I'm with sharklasers. The benefit to 4 points on your LSAT, especially with that GPA, isn't worth delaying your career by a year. Your options with a 173 / 3.5 are: 45k total scholly at Vandy (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/forzaroma), sticker at MVP, or very small chance of sticker at CCN. Neither of those seem like they'd be worth delaying your career for a year.

User avatar
sanetruth
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:26 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sanetruth » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:42 pm

"Just wait a year" is so much easier said than done. Especially considering that OP said he doesn't have a 'plan' (read: job).

I don't know where in the country you are, but where I am the job market is not so good, and finding a job within and for the next 15 months is not going to be easy. Sure, you could get a job bussing tables or something but then the question becomes: "Is bussing tables for a year and having to explain that to potential employers in law school worth the marginal benefit I MIGHT get from MAYBE getting into a better school?" Perhaps it is.

I'm not arguing for or against either option, I'm just saying that this decision boils down to a lot more than just 'oh it's just a year i'll wait it out'. The gaps on our resumes, as well as the chioces we make in trying to close them/fill them, DO have an effect on future job searches.

User avatar
thelawyler
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:00 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby thelawyler » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:48 pm

So does the argument for going this year pretty much boil down to doing something interesting in my off year? Like I should have something interesting to do so I can tell employers later on? How will they know I even reapplied, though? Perhaps I just decided on law school too late and missed the deadline?

User avatar
sanetruth
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:26 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sanetruth » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:54 pm

thelawyler wrote:So does the argument for going this year pretty much boil down to doing something interesting in my off year? Like I should have something interesting to do so I can tell employers later on? How will they know I even reapplied, though? Perhaps I just decided on law school too late and missed the deadline?


I would say as long as 'interesting' means work or some sort of fellowship/americorps-type thing. A lot of older lawyers will tell you 'take time off! go skiing in europe! no big deal, thats what I did!' but I really don't think that is wise ITE. Meaningful work experience prior to law school seems to be making a lot of difference both for applicants as well as students.

How late can you wait to bail on Vandy? If you're comfortable making a last-minute adjustment, I would stay enrolled, look for full-time employment or something comparable, and if you find it, don't go and reapply for the next cycle. That is clearly win-win. However, if by mid-august you're realizing the search for meaningful work is not proving as easy as you hoped, I honestly think your best option is to continue straight to school.

sharklasers
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sharklasers » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:06 pm

thelawyler wrote:So does the argument for going this year pretty much boil down to doing something interesting in my off year? Like I should have something interesting to do so I can tell employers later on? How will they know I even reapplied, though? Perhaps I just decided on law school too late and missed the deadline?


No, you silly reading-impaired goose, skipping a year is economically the dumb thing to do no matter what you do for the year. But if there's something you'd really love to do, or enjoy doing, then go ahead. Just don't think you're doing your career any favors.

stylishlaw
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:28 am

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby stylishlaw » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:15 pm

duckmoney wrote:I'm with sharklasers. The benefit to 4 points on your LSAT, especially with that GPA, isn't worth delaying your career by a year. Your options with a 173 / 3.5 are: 45k total scholly at Vandy (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/forzaroma), sticker at MVP, or very small chance of sticker at CCN. Neither of those seem like they'd be worth delaying your career for a year.


Agree with this. Retake/reapply is not always credited with a sub-3.5. I was a 169/3.4, 178 retake. Decided that I'll be heading to Vandy in the fall regardless. The GPA is just not good enough to reliably open up HYSCCN. Delaying a year to upgrade from Vandy with $ to MVPDCNG (B is out) at sticker + small chance of getting money is not worth it. Especially when I would actually take Vandy sticker over both C & G at sticker. You're giving up one year of your life as well as that BigLaw salary you could have been making in that one extra year.

It's also not as straightforward as tacking on the extra placement % when evaluating schools. The schools have different 25%/median/75% stats.

fingersxd
Posts: 643
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:04 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby fingersxd » Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:28 pm

stylishlaw wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I'm with sharklasers. The benefit to 4 points on your LSAT, especially with that GPA, isn't worth delaying your career by a year. Your options with a 173 / 3.5 are: 45k total scholly at Vandy (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/forzaroma), sticker at MVP, or very small chance of sticker at CCN. Neither of those seem like they'd be worth delaying your career for a year.


Agree with this. Retake/reapply is not always credited with a sub-3.5. I was a 169/3.4, 178 retake. Decided that I'll be heading to Vandy in the fall regardless. The GPA is just not good enough to reliably open up HYSCCN. Delaying a year to upgrade from Vandy with $ to MVPDCNG (B is out) at sticker + small chance of getting money is not worth it. Especially when I would actually take Vandy sticker over both C & G at sticker. You're giving up one year of your life as well as that BigLaw salary you could have been making in that one extra year.

It's also not as straightforward as tacking on the extra placement % when evaluating schools. The schools have different 25%/median/75% stats.


You have a 3.4/178 and don't think you could get some $ at MVPD? I would be pretty surprised if you didn't.

That aside, if OP doesn't have a job lined up for the year, then yes, it make senses to attend now. However, if OP could get a decent job, it seems to me that a year of w/e combined with the improved LSAT score AND and earlier app should net him a comparable scholarship at MPVD to what OP is getting at Vandy. And financially, I think the salary plus improved job placement odds will more than payoff in the long run.

P.S. Whoever said that 10-15 placement isn't that important is off their rocker.

sharklasers
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 pm

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby sharklasers » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:29 pm

fingersxd wrote:P.S. Whoever said that 10-15 placement isn't that important is off their rocker.


That's not what I said, you silly reading-impaired goose.

stylishlaw
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:28 am

Re: Vandy ($) or Reapply with new June score

Postby stylishlaw » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:07 pm

fingersxd wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I'm with sharklasers. The benefit to 4 points on your LSAT, especially with that GPA, isn't worth delaying your career by a year. Your options with a 173 / 3.5 are: 45k total scholly at Vandy (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/forzaroma), sticker at MVP, or very small chance of sticker at CCN. Neither of those seem like they'd be worth delaying your career for a year.


Agree with this. Retake/reapply is not always credited with a sub-3.5. I was a 169/3.4, 178 retake. Decided that I'll be heading to Vandy in the fall regardless. The GPA is just not good enough to reliably open up HYSCCN. Delaying a year to upgrade from Vandy with $ to MVPDCNG (B is out) at sticker + small chance of getting money is not worth it. Especially when I would actually take Vandy sticker over both C & G at sticker. You're giving up one year of your life as well as that BigLaw salary you could have been making in that one extra year.

It's also not as straightforward as tacking on the extra placement % when evaluating schools. The schools have different 25%/median/75% stats.


You have a 3.4/178 and don't think you could get some $ at MVPD? I would be pretty surprised if you didn't.

That aside, if OP doesn't have a job lined up for the year, then yes, it make senses to attend now. However, if OP could get a decent job, it seems to me that a year of w/e combined with the improved LSAT score AND and earlier app should net him a comparable scholarship at MPVD to what OP is getting at Vandy. And financially, I think the salary plus improved job placement odds will more than payoff in the long run.

P.S. Whoever said that 10-15 placement isn't that important is off their rocker.


I'm not working right now. I can't reasonably take off a year without having something solid already in place since I would just be wasting time. The job search would not only take significant time but I already expended a good amount of money for my applications. Besides, Boalt and Duke are unlikely with my GPA... and the jump to MPVN is not big in terms of prestige and I'm not likely to get a ridiculous amount of money (if any at all). 10-15% extra placement is certainly a useful thing but I'm also 'IP secure'. Spending an extra year for a bump to a non-T6 school just doesn't seem worth it to me. I think most people in this situation would take Georgetown or Cornell at sticker rather than wait another year... Vandy with $ is just as good. I want to reiterate the point that the LSAT/GPA distributions at the schools are different... do some research. While there's obviously a weak correlation between law school performance and LSAT scores, there is a definite difference even when you're talking about a few points over the entire student body.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests