BC vs. Notre Dame

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droges
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BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby droges » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:30 pm

I was wondering if anyone has any input on which school to choose. I do not have a preference in where I practice, and with comparable money from these schools I am having a difficult time making a decision (which needs to be made soon, obvioulsy). My main concern is employment prospects after graduation. I know ND is ranked slightly higher but BC has had better numbers in terms of placement into the NJL top 250 (33% v. 23% for 2011). Does anyone have any knowledge of how they fare outside of NJL 250? Thanks

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bk1
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:32 pm

Ignore the rankings, ignore the NLJ, these schools are peers. Realize you have an actual preference between either the midwest or the east coast and make a decision based on that.

droges
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby droges » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:44 pm

I'm not sure I agree with the advice to disregard the placement statistics because they are, IMO, an indication of post graduation employment prospects and to me 10% is a big difference.

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bk1
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:49 pm

droges wrote:I'm not sure I agree with the advice to disregard the placement statistics because they are, IMO, an indication of post graduation employment prospects and to me 10% is a big difference.

And yet the majority of the time you aren't going to get 6 figure employment out of either of these schools. The employment between these schools are close enough that what should matter to you is regionality. However since you seem to want the highest possible chance at a large firm then go with BC because you care about a small difference (a few percentage points) rather than a large difference (east coast vs midwest).

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bk1
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:52 pm

To actually answer your question because I'm feeling nice, it makes sense that BC would be a better choice. It only has a single competitor (BU) for its main market (Boston) and that market is doing decently. On top of that, the secondary market for BC is the strongest in the nation (NYC). On the other you have ND which has tons of competition (Illinois, WUSTL, UChi, NU) for its primary market (Chicago) and that market isn't doing so well.

droges
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby droges » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:01 pm

I definitely understand the odds are against you at each of these schools for Big Law (33% and 23%) but I want to maximize my employment prospects upon graduation. The second part of my question was about the employment prospects outside of biglaw.

flexityflex86
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby flexityflex86 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:04 pm

What made me a little timid about Notre Dame is that while it had much better national placement than every school ranked around it, and pretty much all of its peers, it did not seem to have a home base as Northern Indiana is not a thriving economic market. I do actually think BK is wrong about the midwest as this is a superficial assumption on placement based off of the location of the school. However, BC is definitely better for the northeast. Another thing to keep in mind is salaries can be misleading - you need to look at salary vs. COL.

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bk1
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:06 pm

droges wrote:I definitely understand the odds are against you at each of these schools for Big Law (33% and 23%) but I want to maximize my employment prospects upon graduation. The second part of my question was about the employment prospects outside of biglaw.


I think the LST stats speak for themselves. Though they are old, a larger percentage of BC students obtained higher paying employment (to be fair I would still classify these sorts of salaries as biglaw even though they aren't all NLJ250).

flexityflex86
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby flexityflex86 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:08 pm

wherever you go you should be investing in heavy jackets.

CanadianWolf
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:11 pm

Congratulations as both are outstanding law schools. Are you familiar with Boston ? Chicago ? Indianapolis ? If so, do you have a preference among these cities ?

Consider contacting both law schools & ask if either holds off campus OCI-type recruitment/interview events. The Univ. of Minnesota, for example, has developed a San Francisco "OCI" for its law students seeking West Coast opportunities.

Ask each school for merit money, or, if you have already received a scholarship offer, than ask for it to be increased or for any stipulations to be removed or lessened.

flexityflex86
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby flexityflex86 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:13 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Congratulations as both are outstanding law schools. Are you familiar with Boston ? Chicago ? Indianapolis ? If so, do you have a preference among these cities ?

Consider contacting both law schools & ask if either holds off campus OCI-type recruitment/interview events. The Univ. of Minnesota, for example, has developed a San Francisco "OCI" for its law students seeking West Coast opportunities.

Ask each school for merit money, or, if you have already received a scholarship offer, than ask for it to be increased or for any stipulations to be removed or lessened.

i know ND does. i doubt either one has stipulations. stipulations are so TTTT.

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bk1
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:15 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:What made me a little timid about Notre Dame is that while it had much better national placement than every school ranked around it, and pretty much all of its peers, it did not seem to have a home base as Northern Indiana is not a thriving economic market. I do actually think BK is wrong about the midwest as this is a superficial assumption on placement based off of the location of the school. However, BC is definitely better for the northeast. Another thing to keep in mind is salaries can be misleading - you need to look at salary vs. COL.


While it is true that ND is more national than its peers, it still doesn't have more respect than the regional schools in those areas or T14s so you are fighting a losing battle. Not to mention that 40% of ND still goes to the midwest (yes yes I know this doesn't factor in self selection). It makes no sense to pick ND over the top regional school in another area for employment in that area so it doesn't make any sense to go to ND for national prospects.

flexityflex86
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby flexityflex86 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:24 pm

bk1 wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:What made me a little timid about Notre Dame is that while it had much better national placement than every school ranked around it, and pretty much all of its peers, it did not seem to have a home base as Northern Indiana is not a thriving economic market. I do actually think BK is wrong about the midwest as this is a superficial assumption on placement based off of the location of the school. However, BC is definitely better for the northeast. Another thing to keep in mind is salaries can be misleading - you need to look at salary vs. COL.


While it is true that ND is more national than its peers, it still doesn't have more respect than the regional schools in those areas or T14s so you are fighting a losing battle. Not to mention that 40% of ND still goes to the midwest (yes yes I know this doesn't factor in self selection). It makes no sense to pick ND over the top regional school in another area for employment in that area so it doesn't make any sense to go to ND for national prospects.

i concur. i think nd is the place to go if you want indianapolis, but want to keep chicago and other cities open as well such as LA.

droges
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby droges » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:31 pm

How do the legal markets compare in terms of economic recovery and potential growth? I know the Northeast has weathered the economic storm fairly well, and since Boston is an economy with lots of large research and biotech companies, I believe it will provide fairly stable job opportunities for other sectors (i.e. legal). Any thoughts on Boston, Chicago, or other possible secondary markets?

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ndirish2010
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:46 am

flexityflex86 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:What made me a little timid about Notre Dame is that while it had much better national placement than every school ranked around it, and pretty much all of its peers, it did not seem to have a home base as Northern Indiana is not a thriving economic market. I do actually think BK is wrong about the midwest as this is a superficial assumption on placement based off of the location of the school. However, BC is definitely better for the northeast. Another thing to keep in mind is salaries can be misleading - you need to look at salary vs. COL.


While it is true that ND is more national than its peers, it still doesn't have more respect than the regional schools in those areas or T14s so you are fighting a losing battle. Not to mention that 40% of ND still goes to the midwest (yes yes I know this doesn't factor in self selection). It makes no sense to pick ND over the top regional school in another area for employment in that area so it doesn't make any sense to go to ND for national prospects.

i concur. i think nd is the place to go if you want indianapolis, but want to keep chicago and other cities open as well such as LA.


Nobody from NDLS is really shooting for Indy (a few kids, but that's about it). If you want Indy, 120K from IU is TCR.
I'd probably choose BC at similar cost over ND if you think you'd like the Northeast. Boston market is doing decently, while Chicago is recovering but not all the way back yet. Both can get you NYC, but BC has TONS more NYC firms coming to OCI. If you really want Chicago or anywhere else outside the Northeast, then don't go to BC.

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ndirish2010
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:47 am

droges wrote:How do the legal markets compare in terms of economic recovery and potential growth? I know the Northeast has weathered the economic storm fairly well, and since Boston is an economy with lots of large research and biotech companies, I believe it will provide fairly stable job opportunities for other sectors (i.e. legal). Any thoughts on Boston, Chicago, or other possible secondary markets?


Indy is doing OK right now, but there are only two NLJ firms with decent class sizes...you need some ties to the state, not sure if going to law school in South Bend would be enough. Chicago improving, but still far from where it was in 2008. NYC/Boston do look stronger.

droges
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby droges » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:08 pm

Anyone know anything about smaller Northeast markets such as Hartford or Stamford/ New Haven and what schools place there?

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YourCaptain
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby YourCaptain » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:12 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:What made me a little timid about Notre Dame is that while it had much better national placement than every school ranked around it, and pretty much all of its peers, it did not seem to have a home base as Northern Indiana is not a thriving economic market. I do actually think BK is wrong about the midwest as this is a superficial assumption on placement based off of the location of the school. However, BC is definitely better for the northeast. Another thing to keep in mind is salaries can be misleading - you need to look at salary vs. COL.


While it is true that ND is more national than its peers, it still doesn't have more respect than the regional schools in those areas or T14s so you are fighting a losing battle. Not to mention that 40% of ND still goes to the midwest (yes yes I know this doesn't factor in self selection). It makes no sense to pick ND over the top regional school in another area for employment in that area so it doesn't make any sense to go to ND for national prospects.

i concur. i think nd is the place to go if you want indianapolis, but want to keep chicago and other cities open as well such as LA.


Very few ND grads go to Indianapolis please don't speak to something you are not knowledgeable about.

OP: I can answer your questions in a pm if you want.

shanon
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby shanon » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:49 am

I think Notre Dame is good choice

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:55 am

ND for the midwest, BC for the northeast. Try UCLA/USC for west coast and Vandy for the south.

Given the placement stats in biglaw, BC significantly outperforms ND at biglaw placement, largely due to the fact that it feeds into Boston and New York which have huge biglaw openings every summer, unlike the midwest generally and chicago lately.

I'd prefer ND for undergrad, BC for law school.

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Perch
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby Perch » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:14 am

Slevin Kelevra 2011 wrote:ND for the midwest, BC for the northeast. Try UCLA/USC for west coast and Vandy for the south.

Given the placement stats in biglaw, BC significantly outperforms ND at biglaw placement, largely due to the fact that it feeds into Boston and New York which have huge biglaw openings every summer, unlike the midwest generally and chicago lately.

I'd prefer ND for undergrad, BC for law school.

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schwar46
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Re: BC vs. Notre Dame

Postby schwar46 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:13 am

This all comes down to Flutie v. Montana. Personally, I'd go with Herzlich. Plus, Eagles Deli. BCFTW.




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