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rungo21
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Postby rungo21 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:20 am

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Last edited by rungo21 on Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Revolver066
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby Revolver066 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:33 am

I'm just a clueless 0L but I'm going to say what many people on this board usually say. Many people wouldn't even take UCLA or USC at sticker let alone SW ,so being $150,000 in debt to go a TTT or TTTT is an extremely extremely risky proposition.

Can you re-take and reapply next year to try to get into a school with better job prospects?

scammedhard
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby scammedhard » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:18 am

The answer is none of the above.

The chances that you will be able to practice law graduating from these schools is very low. On top that, it is going to be very hard, if not impossible, to pay back the debt acquired, and, therefore, it is very likely that you will end up with a miserable life in poverty and always worried about the debt. Please don't dig your own grave.

Retake/Reapply, or don't go to law school.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:19 am

If Southwestern at sticker is your best option, then law school is probably not something to consider.

jarofsoup
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby jarofsoup » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:36 am

scammedhard wrote:The answer is none of the above.

The chances that you will be able to practice law graduating from these schools is very low. On top that, it is going to be very hard, if not impossible, to pay back the debt acquired, and, therefore, it is very likely that you will end up with a miserable life in poverty and always worried about the debt. Please don't dig your own grave.

Retake/Reapply, or don't go to law school.



"The chances that you will be able to practice law graduating from these schools is very low."

This is not 100% true-there is doc review, basic trust and estate practices, shit law, and personal injury law.


If you do not get the top of your class at chapman you will not get a job. If you get top of your clas at Whittier or Southwestern no one will care.

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dpk711
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby dpk711 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:39 am

No, just no.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:41 am

There are only 2 schools in California worth sticker (and that's debatable, there may be only one given Berkeley's ridiculous sticker price).

jarofsoup
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby jarofsoup » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:55 am

ndirish2010 wrote:There are only 2 schools in California worth sticker (and that's debatable, there may be only one given Berkeley's ridiculous sticker price).



Hah. What happened to UCLA and USC?

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dpk711
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby dpk711 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:57 am

jarofsoup wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:There are only 2 schools in California worth sticker (and that's debatable, there may be only one given Berkeley's ridiculous sticker price).



Hah. What happened to UCLA and USC?

Not worth sticker. I don't think Cornell is worth sticker for that matter.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:00 pm

Cornell is close to being worth sticker, but I would lean against it. At least median at Cornell seems to be in decent shape in NYC. Median at Boalt OTOH?

jarofsoup
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby jarofsoup » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:16 pm

Your funny. For in state the UCs save a lot of money

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romothesavior
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:30 pm

Arguably none of these three schools is worth it with less than a full ride (some would say never, not even with a full ride). At sticker??? Financial suicide. These schools just don't place enough people into legitimate, full-time lawyer jobs. I'm guessing you want to go to law school so you can become a lawyer, right? How would you like to spend 3 years and tens of thousands of dollars to become a temp attorney or a waiter? You may think I'm exaggerating, but check out some of the recent NYT and WSJ articles. Schools like these three are the very bottom of the barrel for legal employment in California. Southwestern would maybe be worth it with a full ride, but not at sticker. The other two are just... no.

You might as well be asking "Hey guys, what's the best way for me to blow $150,000? Should I flush it, burn it, or shred it?"

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:39 pm

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Last edited by Kilpatrick on Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

rungo21
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby rungo21 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:21 pm

Thank you guys for taking the time out of your day doing whatever it is you do to reply to this thread. does anyone else have an opinion?

here's the '09 stats for southwestern http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/careerservice ... port09.pdf
I would assume these figures are at least somewhat accurate as it is public and would otherwise not stand up to constant scrutiny from people such as you guys

it has a rather large range of starting salaries, though it does appear that the top of the class got into biglaw (which, as classified as 100+ attorneys by them; I understand some people also have different definitions of biglaw) which pay the 160k; of course, no one is banking on that going to a TTT. Immediately after that is the plurality of the class making around 75k, which is consistent with the figure TLS has on its ranking page. do you guys honestly think that those employment prospects are "not worth going to law school"?

of course i realize that this isn't as impressive as say, a neighbor like UCLA, with apparently over 50% of its class getting 160k jobs. for me, of course biglaw sounds nice, prestigious and rewarding, however i would still be content with the median job prospects that those schools yield.

can anyone else perhaps give me some insight on which of those three (southwestern, chapman, whittier) would be best? I understand that "dont go" may be right in some cases for you people. In my case, I won't be taking loans, and fortunately I've established a stable and increasingly lucrative healthcare products business in the years I've been out of undergrad and I am able to pay for law school and live while not really working for three years. I do want to perhaps sell this business one day, and I wanted to pursue a legal education within this opportunity I can currently afford, or use a legal education to further develop my current business or practice law in a related field such as with healthcare, regulatory or insurance issues... blah blah blah. yes, I even dream of being a big shot lawyer doing something completely unrelated than that. In reality though, basically, I'm okay with going to a TTT and taking what kind of jobs they offer. yes, unfortunately, my undergrad gpa was shit and even though my lsat would have been decent with say, a 3.5 gpa, it just did not cut it for my 2.9. so those are the choices i have.

I guess I am looking for people with some personal experience with any of them to offer any insight on those schools I mentioned, because I don't really want to wait another year and I am pretty much set on starting this year. I've paid all the deposits at each one, I just wanted to know what you guys think would be best to end up going to, since I will be starting in 1.5 months. Anyone?

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zanda
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby zanda » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:38 pm

Here's the link for SW worth looking at. --LinkRemoved--

Just over 5% reports making over $90k. Just over 10% reports making over $75k, and just over 15% reports making over $62.5k. Then factor in loans.

scammedhard
Posts: 642
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:17 pm

Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby scammedhard » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:53 pm

rungo21 wrote:Thank you guys for taking the time out of your day doing whatever it is you do to reply to this thread. does anyone else have an opinion?

here's the '09 stats for southwestern http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/careerservice ... port09.pdf
I would assume these figures are at least somewhat accurate as it is public and would otherwise not stand up to constant scrutiny from people such as you guys

it has a rather large range of starting salaries, though it does appear that the top of the class got into biglaw (which, as classified as 100+ attorneys by them; I understand some people also have different definitions of biglaw) which pay the 160k; of course, no one is banking on that going to a TTT. Immediately after that is the plurality of the class making around 75k, which is consistent with the figure TLS has on its ranking page. do you guys honestly think that those employment prospects are "not worth going to law school"?

of course i realize that this isn't as impressive as say, a neighbor like UCLA, with apparently over 50% of its class getting 160k jobs. for me, of course biglaw sounds nice, prestigious and rewarding, however i would still be content with the median job prospects that those schools yield.

can anyone else perhaps give me some insight on which of those three (southwestern, chapman, whittier) would be best? I understand that "dont go" may be right in some cases for you people. In my case, I won't be taking loans, and fortunately I've established a stable and increasingly lucrative healthcare products business in the years I've been out of undergrad and I am able to pay for law school and live while not really working for three years. I do want to perhaps sell this business one day, and I wanted to pursue a legal education within this opportunity I can currently afford, or use a legal education to further develop my current business or practice law in a related field such as with healthcare, regulatory or insurance issues... blah blah blah. yes, I even dream of being a big shot lawyer doing something completely unrelated than that. In reality though, basically, I'm okay with going to a TTT and taking what kind of jobs they offer. yes, unfortunately, my undergrad gpa was shit and even though my lsat would have been decent with say, a 3.5 gpa, it just did not cut it for my 2.9. so those are the choices i have.

I guess I am looking for people with some personal experience with any of them to offer any insight on those schools I mentioned, because I don't really want to wait another year and I am pretty much set on starting this year. I've paid all the deposits at each one, I just wanted to know what you guys think would be best to end up going to, since I will be starting in 1.5 months. Anyone?

First, don't believe what law schools say. They massage their data to the point that a lot of people would consider it fraudulent.

Second, it sounds that you are a successful businessperson already. I don't think you need further credentials, but have you considered and MBA? The problem as you pointed out is you GPA. A 2.9 you are not going to get anywhere worthwhile.

Third, even if you leave law school with no debt, the money is still gone. One can do much more productive endeavors with 150-200K.

rungo21
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:51 pm

Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby rungo21 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:15 pm

scammedhard wrote:
rungo21 wrote:Thank you guys for taking the time out of your day doing whatever it is you do to reply to this thread. does anyone else have an opinion?

here's the '09 stats for southwestern http://www.swlaw.edu/pdfs/careerservice ... port09.pdf
I would assume these figures are at least somewhat accurate as it is public and would otherwise not stand up to constant scrutiny from people such as you guys

it has a rather large range of starting salaries, though it does appear that the top of the class got into biglaw (which, as classified as 100+ attorneys by them; I understand some people also have different definitions of biglaw) which pay the 160k; of course, no one is banking on that going to a TTT. Immediately after that is the plurality of the class making around 75k, which is consistent with the figure TLS has on its ranking page. do you guys honestly think that those employment prospects are "not worth going to law school"?

of course i realize that this isn't as impressive as say, a neighbor like UCLA, with apparently over 50% of its class getting 160k jobs. for me, of course biglaw sounds nice, prestigious and rewarding, however i would still be content with the median job prospects that those schools yield.

can anyone else perhaps give me some insight on which of those three (southwestern, chapman, whittier) would be best? I understand that "dont go" may be right in some cases for you people. In my case, I won't be taking loans, and fortunately I've established a stable and increasingly lucrative healthcare products business in the years I've been out of undergrad and I am able to pay for law school and live while not really working for three years. I do want to perhaps sell this business one day, and I wanted to pursue a legal education within this opportunity I can currently afford, or use a legal education to further develop my current business or practice law in a related field such as with healthcare, regulatory or insurance issues... blah blah blah. yes, I even dream of being a big shot lawyer doing something completely unrelated than that. In reality though, basically, I'm okay with going to a TTT and taking what kind of jobs they offer. yes, unfortunately, my undergrad gpa was shit and even though my lsat would have been decent with say, a 3.5 gpa, it just did not cut it for my 2.9. so those are the choices i have.

I guess I am looking for people with some personal experience with any of them to offer any insight on those schools I mentioned, because I don't really want to wait another year and I am pretty much set on starting this year. I've paid all the deposits at each one, I just wanted to know what you guys think would be best to end up going to, since I will be starting in 1.5 months. Anyone?

First, don't believe what law schools say. They massage their data to the point that a lot of people would consider it fraudulent.

Second, it sounds that you are a successful businessperson already. I don't think you need further credentials, but have you considered and MBA? The problem as you pointed out is you GPA. A 2.9 you are not going to get anywhere worthwhile.

Third, even if you leave law school with no debt, the money is still gone. One can do much more productive endeavors with 150-200K.


yeah, honestly i did consider a MBA, though knowing I would not get the top MBA programs either, I still think a JD from TTT is worth more than a MBA from whatever they call their TTT's, as law school can teach things, such as well, law, that people could not otherwise learn. I do want a legal education and there are many things I want to do with it, both in the legal and business field. I do have strong political views regarding contemporary healthcare and have strong opinions about Obama's take on medicare reform and hopefully I can have some impact on policy in the future, either through law or business. Also, that whole industry leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I am considering leaving it, and I want to open other opportunities while I can.

In terms of quality of actual education at different law schools, I suspect it does not vary greatly, and the factor that contributes most to this is individuals' motivation and the work they put in. I just want to know what you guys think, out of those three, which would be the "best" to get a legal education, just to "learn the law."

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:29 pm

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Last edited by Kilpatrick on Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mpj_3050
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Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby mpj_3050 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:40 pm

Southwestern seems like quite a deal @ 70k COA per year.

Seriously, you have got to retake or wait and apply to schools that don't cost these absurd amounts that absolutely require biglaw to pay off the debt.

I know a person who goes to Whittier...don't go to Whittier.

justhockey31
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:35 pm

Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby justhockey31 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:54 pm

If you really have to go I would say Chapman, do well and get the scholarship increase or drop out after your 1L. 40k debt will be a lot more manageable than 150k.

NVResident
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Re: Southwestern vs. Chapman vs. Whittier

Postby NVResident » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:21 pm

First thing, cross Whittier off the list. There is no conceivable reason to go there given the other two choices.

Between Southwestern and Chapman, it will really depend on what you are looking for. Chapman is located adjacent to a beautiful undergrad campus in a largely suburban setting. Southwestern is a stand-alone law school right in the heart of LA.

Chapman prides itself on having a conservative/libertarian ideological bent and the current dean is a former Republican congressman well-known as a conservative activist. It is the only campus I have ever visited that prominently displays busts of Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman and Margaret Thatcher.

Southwestern, by contrast, has a more liberal reputation with a strong bent towards diversity and public service. My Aunt is a Southwestern Alumni who practices in the family law field with a small (4 attorney) firm in Pasadena. It was her desire to be a family law attorney that drew her to Southwestern in the first place.

If you want a suburban setting with an emphasis on free-market and business approaches to the law, Chapman is the better choice. If you want an urban setting with more of an emphasis on public law then Southwestern is the way to go. Either way best of luck with your choice.




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