US News rankings as only basis for decision?

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madisonsmith5599
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby madisonsmith5599 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:15 pm

omninode wrote:I find it annoying when they have ties. It makes no sense. Is there really no difference between Michigan and Penn, Berkeley and UVA?

I wouldn't be surprised if, ten years from now, they have 17 schools tied for first place.


Here's one thing that I struggle to understand about the US News rankings -- they allow a graduate to count as "employed after graduation" regardless of the type of employment. Unless I am mistaken, US News allows JDs to count as "employed" even if the graduates work as waiters or bartenders.

Without some sensible restriction in this category, most schools can claim a 95% employment rate after graduation, because 60% (or whatever percentage) of the grads can work in low-skilled jobs that have nothing to do with their law degrees, and yet this still counts toward the school's ranking. Even if the employment categories don't count for too much in the overall ranking, it's still confusing why they would leave it like that. I'm guessing they have no way to filter the data on their end, but I have to say that I find it extremely flawed.

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Bronte
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby Bronte » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:51 pm

omninode wrote:
lawgod wrote:
uzpakalis wrote:(Unlike T10 which seems to have 12 or 13)



I find it annoying when they have ties. It makes no sense. Is there really no difference between Michigan and Penn, Berkeley and UVA?


You must be new here. No, there is no meaningful difference between Michigan, Penn, Berkeley, and UVA except for their regional biases.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:18 pm

The rankings are good insofar that they are a good indicator of overall prestige and employment outlook of a given law school. However, there are strata within the rankings were just because a school is one or two ranking slot below or above another school does not necessarily mean that the specific school is better for you nor better in general.

Choosing within the tiers of HYS, CCN, MVPDNC, etc., should be done largely on school fit (location, class size, etc.). Of course, scholarships can sometimes make choosing a slightly lower-tiered school the better option.

In your instance, choosing BC over WUSTL makes a ton of sense. You didn't turn down a huge scholly at WUSTL, you didn't turn down a T13, you want to work on the East Coast, and, as far as I can tell, BC has better employment prospects even though it is ranked nine spots lower. What your family probably fails to understand that after you get beyond the top 13 schools or maybe up to Vanderbilt, the rankings aren't as necessarily meaningful and in-touch with real world prospects.

duckmoney
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby duckmoney » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:36 pm

hangtransferloose wrote:Vandy is t14 caliber.


Vandy is as good as Georgetown for sure. This is something to be proud of!

--LinkRemoved--

Or is it?

lawyerwannabe
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby lawyerwannabe » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:45 pm

hangtransferloose wrote:Vandy is t14 caliber.


T14 material. But T13 material? Nawwwww.

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Lawquacious
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:02 pm

Bronte wrote:
omninode wrote:
lawgod wrote:
uzpakalis wrote:(Unlike T10 which seems to have 12 or 13)



I find it annoying when they have ties. It makes no sense. Is there really no difference between Michigan and Penn, Berkeley and UVA?


You must be new here. No, there is no meaningful difference between Michigan, Penn, Berkeley, and UVA except for their regional biases.



Except that right now Berkeley is getting killed at their OCI, so actually maybe there are some differences (which probably fluctuate, and hence the schools overall are fairly comparable).

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Lawquacious
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:04 pm

duckmoney wrote:
hangtransferloose wrote:Vandy is t14 caliber.


Vandy is as good as Georgetown for sure. This is something to be proud of!

--LinkRemoved--

Or is it?



Actually, look at the dollar amounts in the blue section for each of these schools...

duckmoney
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby duckmoney » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:28 pm

Lawquacious wrote:
duckmoney wrote:
hangtransferloose wrote:Vandy is t14 caliber.


Vandy is as good as Georgetown for sure. This is something to be proud of!

--LinkRemoved--

Or is it?



Actually, look at the dollar amounts in the blue section for each of these schools...


I'm much more concerned with the red and gray than the blue.

Slevin Kelevra 2011
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby Slevin Kelevra 2011 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:45 am

"Show them the NLJ 250 numbers for Biglaw placement."

This. WUSTL and BC aren't even comparable.

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Verity
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby Verity » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:09 pm

The cooleys is best school of laws in U.S A. I will go.

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ahduth
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby ahduth » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:00 pm

madisonsmith5599 wrote:Even if the employment categories don't count for too much in the overall ranking, it's still confusing why they would leave it like that. I'm guessing they have no way to filter the data on their end, but I have to say that I find it extremely flawed.


They have absolutely no interest in telling people their graduates are working at McDonald's.

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ahduth
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby ahduth » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:27 pm

ahduth wrote:
madisonsmith5599 wrote:Even if the employment categories don't count for too much in the overall ranking, it's still confusing why they would leave it like that. I'm guessing they have no way to filter the data on their end, but I have to say that I find it extremely flawed.


They have absolutely no interest in telling people their graduates are working at McDonald's.


I spoke too quickly I suppose.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... ethodology

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monarchylover
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby monarchylover » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:22 pm

I really think if you are one of the big law or bust people you should only look at these rankings and the Article III graph where ever it is
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

BC 33.58%
WUSTL 18.96%

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jcdc
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby jcdc » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:12 am

monarchylover wrote:I really think if you are one of the big law or bust people you should only look at these rankings and the Article III graph where ever it is
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

BC 33.58%
WUSTL 18.96%


I'm about to choose BC over a larger scholarship at WUSTL for those exact numbers.

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madisonsmith5599
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby madisonsmith5599 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:30 pm

ahduth wrote:
ahduth wrote:
madisonsmith5599 wrote:Even if the employment categories don't count for too much in the overall ranking, it's still confusing why they would leave it like that. I'm guessing they have no way to filter the data on their end, but I have to say that I find it extremely flawed.


They have absolutely no interest in telling people their graduates are working at McDonald's.


I spoke too quickly I suppose.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... ethodology


That link is interesting news, and long overdue. But I wouldn't be surprised if after getting the detailed employment data, US News doesn't use it directly to improve the rankings but instead sends surveys to people asking "How do you feel about this data?"

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madisonsmith5599
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Re: US News rankings as only basis for decision?

Postby madisonsmith5599 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:40 pm

jcdc wrote:
monarchylover wrote:I really think if you are one of the big law or bust people you should only look at these rankings and the Article III graph where ever it is
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202483173162&LAW_SCHOOLS_REPORT

BC 33.58%
WUSTL 18.96%


I'm about to choose BC over a larger scholarship at WUSTL for those exact numbers.


BC's higher NLJ ranking was definitely a factor for me in picking it over WUSTL.

My philosophy is that all school rankings are limited and flawed in their own way, but the NLJ rankings at least attempt to measure quality of employment as opposed to US News, which measures only rate of employment. Rate and quality are totally different, so at least NLJ gets that right to a degree. NLJ doesn't account for self-selection of graduates, so that's something to remember.

But yeah, in my case I struggled to justify paying more at WUSTL when BC's placement in large law firms was significantly superior in 2010, according to those numbers.




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