USC or UVA for LA biglaw?

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bk1
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:15 am

crossingforHYS wrote:for the 9th circuit 09-10 year UCLA placed 8, UVa placed 2 and usc placed one

last year usc and ucla were comparable

--LinkRemoved--

that is what I meant by the usc and ucla difference, I wasnt accounting for all clerkships.

but for all usc is 4 percent and ucla is 8 percent

http://lawweb.usc.edu/why/facts/
http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Okay I'll cede that there is a difference here for placement between USC/UCLA. But I still go back to my point that it doesn't make sense to pick between UVa/USC based on clerkship placement since there are other things that are much more likely to happen that are more relevant to the decision.

This is the same reason that people shouldn't recommend random T2 school over other random T2 school because one placed 5% into biglaw and the other placed 10% into biglaw. Because it is so rare, it becomes immaterial compared to the other differences between the schools.

Puttanesca
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby Puttanesca » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:17 am

Thanks for all of your responses. Regarding the clerkships, we really won't know how difficult it is to get a clerkship without knowing the percentage of students who actually apply for one. I doubt that the chances of getting a clerkship out of USC are as low as 5% or as low as 10% out of UVA. Not everyone tries for a clerkship. IIRC, according to USC, about 20-25% of USC students who applied for a clerkship got one. Based upon the info floating around these forums, I would guess that UVA's prospects of getting a clerkship are better than USC's, but we won't really know how much better without knowing the percentage of UVA students who actually tried for one.

crossingforHYS
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby crossingforHYS » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:18 am

bk1 wrote:
crossingforHYS wrote:for the 9th circuit 09-10 year UCLA placed 8, UVa placed 2 and usc placed one

last year usc and ucla were comparable

--LinkRemoved--

that is what I meant by the usc and ucla difference, I wasnt accounting for all clerkships.

but for all usc is 4 percent and ucla is 8 percent

http://lawweb.usc.edu/why/facts/
http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

Okay I'll cede that there is a difference here for placement between USC/UCLA. But I still go back to my point that it doesn't make sense to pick between UVa/USC based on clerkship placement since there are other things that are much more likely to happen that are more relevant to the decision.

This is the same reason that people shouldn't recommend random T2 school over other random T2 school because one placed 5% into biglaw and the other placed 10% into biglaw. Because it is so rare, it becomes immaterial compared to the other differences between the schools.

I agree----but if LA biglaw is so important to the OP, I think being able to stand out from UVa will give her/him a better chance.

she/he already has ties to cali, and can do a visiting third year to get more ties....plus being away from family might get him/her to focus more...

who knows, the point is that I have gone through making this decision, and I truly believe it comes down to where the OP thinks they can do better and what mobility they want to have later.

UVa is a well respected well known school everywhere in the country--- that isnt true for usc.

treysongz45
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby treysongz45 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:26 am

bk1 wrote:
crossingforHYS wrote:better than over 96%


Yes, the fact that only about 5-6% of USC's class gets clerkships is lower than the 10-12% that get it at UVa, that is not in dispute.

The point is that about 9 times out of 10, OP isn't going to get a clerkship even from UVa so that is a poor metric upon which to make a decision when there are other more prevalent stats upon which to make this decision (like general placement in LA).



haha good luck bro you're waging a losing battle. good luck with law school!!!!!!!

Puttanesca
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby Puttanesca » Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:27 am

crossingforHYS wrote:I agree----but if LA biglaw is so important to the OP, I think being able to stand out from UVa will give her/him a better chance.

she/he already has ties to cali, and can do a visiting third year to get more ties....plus being away from family might get him/her to focus more...

who knows, the point is that I have gone through making this decision, and I truly believe it comes down to where the OP thinks they can do better and what mobility they want to have later.

UVa is a well respected well known school everywhere in the country--- that isnt true for usc.


Other than being a USC alum, I have no ties to Cali. I am not from CA, quite far from it actually, and either way, I won't be anywhere near family. Do you think my USC alum status would be a strong enough tie to get me back to CA if I attend UVA?

V811
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby V811 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:15 am

I'll be a USC incoming 1L

The right decision on simply an academic basis is easily UVA, and yes you will definitely be able to come back to LA with USC ties.

BUT -- the gap between USC and UVA employment in LA is close enough that if you prefer to stay in LA for the next 3 years you won't be missing out on some "amaaaazing" opportunities. We aren't comparing USC with CCN.

I made the lifestyle choice of wanting to stay in LA, so my decision was easy.

The choice is yours, you are in a good position either way. Let us know what you choose.

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ndirish2010
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:25 am

BK, I usually agree with you but you are interpreting the clerkship stats wrong. Not everyone in the top of the class wants to clerk. If OP is in the top 10-15% at UVA, he/she has pretty good chance to land a district court clerkship. Obviously, for COA we are talking a lot better, but still...and I don't think it's out of the question lower in the class for district court. You're acting like clerking takes up the top 12% of every class, which is false.

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ndirish2010
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:29 am

treysongz45 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
crossingforHYS wrote:better than over 96%


Yes, the fact that only about 5-6% of USC's class gets clerkships is lower than the 10-12% that get it at UVa, that is not in dispute.

The point is that about 9 times out of 10, OP isn't going to get a clerkship even from UVa so that is a poor metric upon which to make a decision when there are other more prevalent stats upon which to make this decision (like general placement in LA).



haha good luck bro you're waging a losing battle. good luck with law school!!!!!!!


LOL compare post counts. I agree with you somewhat, but that was one of the most immature posts I've seen in a while.

CanadianWolf
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:44 am

OP: Between USC & Virginia at equal cost, Virginia is the safer choice based on job prospects. What happened to your acceptance at UCLA ?

crossingforHYS
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby crossingforHYS » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:27 am

Puttanesca wrote:
crossingforHYS wrote:I agree----but if LA biglaw is so important to the OP, I think being able to stand out from UVa will give her/him a better chance.

she/he already has ties to cali, and can do a visiting third year to get more ties....plus being away from family might get him/her to focus more...

who knows, the point is that I have gone through making this decision, and I truly believe it comes down to where the OP thinks they can do better and what mobility they want to have later.

UVa is a well respected well known school everywhere in the country--- that isnt true for usc.


Other than being a USC alum, I have no ties to Cali. I am not from CA, quite far from it actually, and either way, I won't be anywhere near family. Do you think my USC alum status would be a strong enough tie to get me back to CA if I attend UVA?


Yes ---as long as you work their in the summers. The USC alums are sharks for their own and that network will never go away. Just make sure you work in cali over the summer.

More people go to California from UVa, then people come originally from California to UVA---sorry that was confusing

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joemoviebuff
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby joemoviebuff » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:29 am

Op, are the costs still comparable with cost of living factored in, or just tuition-wise?

Puttanesca
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby Puttanesca » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:43 am

joemoviebuff wrote:Op, are the costs still comparable with cost of living factored in, or just tuition-wise?


.
Last edited by Puttanesca on Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:22 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:BK, I usually agree with you but you are interpreting the clerkship stats wrong. Not everyone in the top of the class wants to clerk. If OP is in the top 10-15% at UVA, he/she has pretty good chance to land a district court clerkship. Obviously, for COA we are talking a lot better, but still...and I don't think it's out of the question lower in the class for district court. You're acting like clerking takes up the top 12% of every class, which is false.


It doesn't take top 12%, I'm not trying to put that fine a number on it. Just like if 50% of the class gets biglaw, you could be below median and still be competitive for biglaw. I realize that not everyone wants to clerk, but my point still stands that it is damn competitive and highly unlikely coming out of either UVa or USC.

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bk1
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:29 pm

crossingforHYS wrote:I agree----but if LA biglaw is so important to the OP, I think being able to stand out from UVa will give her/him a better chance.


I'm going to ignore the family comment because we don't know whether being close or further away from family is more important to OP.

This is what I brought up in the beginning, that if you go to UVa and gun for LA biglaw you will be one of the few rather than one of the majority. What I followed up to that is that this gets argued all the time in threads like these (heck look at the UW vs Boalt thread) and there doesn't ever seem to be a definitive answer as to whether a T14 will actually outperform the top regional school in the market for biglaw. The T14 could outperform, but I think you'd be hard pressed to actually say that the advantage is anything more than marginal. Which then leads to, you should make the decision based on other factors. Since OP doesn't want NYC biglaw (where UVa has a huge advantage), if OP really wants to work in LA no matter what I think USC is definitely the right call because it will be that much easier to get an LA job while being in LA and being able to network towards it.

I think the only thing that could factor for UVa here is OP being a USC undergrad alum. Assuming that OP will get favorable treatment from USC law school alums, this might be enough to warrant UVa because OP (at least I think) will have the prestige of UVa as well as the alum network of USC.

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bk1
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:30 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:Op, are the costs still comparable with cost of living factored in, or just tuition-wise?


Cost of living is not a major factor for me because my family will be helping out with that. So while there is a cost of living difference, the portion of my law school expenses that I will need to cover myself will be roughly equal at both schools.


Just wondering: could you ask them for the same amount? I mean if they are willing to pay more for you to live in LA, maybe they could give you that same amount in C'ville and you could chop your cost further (if you were to go to UVa).

crossingforHYS
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby crossingforHYS » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:32 pm

bk1 wrote:
crossingforHYS wrote:I agree----but if LA biglaw is so important to the OP, I think being able to stand out from UVa will give her/him a better chance.


I'm going to ignore the family comment because we don't know whether being close or further away from family is more important to OP.

This is what I brought up in the beginning, that if you go to UVa and gun for LA biglaw you will be one of the few rather than one of the majority. What I followed up to that is that this gets argued all the time in threads like these (heck look at the UW vs Boalt thread) and there doesn't ever seem to be a definitive answer as to whether a T14 will actually outperform the top regional school in the market for biglaw. The T14 could outperform, but I think you'd be hard pressed to actually say that the advantage is anything more than marginal. Which then leads to, you should make the decision based on other factors. Since OP doesn't want NYC biglaw (where UVa has a huge advantage), if OP really wants to work in LA no matter what I think USC is definitely the right call because it will be that much easier to get an LA job while being in LA and being able to network towards it.

I think the only thing that could factor for UVa here is OP being a USC undergrad alum. Assuming that OP will get favorable treatment from USC law school alums, this might be enough to warrant UVa because OP (at least I think) will have the prestige of UVa as well as the alum network of USC.


Yes :).

Curry

Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby Curry » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:36 pm

I actually think OP should go to UVA just because I've heard, anecdotally albeit, that USC is thinking about following in UCLA's footsteps in getting rid of LRAP and moving completely to IBR. I can't find any evidence of this online but I've heard people in the area talking about it. Also, I think getting biglaw in the south is easier out of UVA than is LA biglaw. I heard from a poster here that only the top 25% at CLS is getting LA biglaw right now (not sure how true that is but I trust her here) and I think biglaw in the south from UVA might be better than the probably 15% of students who have a shot at LA from UVA.

Puttanesca
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby Puttanesca » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:20 am

CanadianWolf wrote:OP: Between USC & Virginia at equal cost, Virginia is the safer choice based on job prospects. What happened to your acceptance at UCLA ?


Sorry, missed this post earlier. I turned down UCLA for USC because USC increased my scholarship offer after I negotiated with them using my UCLA award as leverage.

bk1 wrote:Just wondering: could you ask them for the same amount? I mean if they are willing to pay more for you to live in LA, maybe they could give you that same amount in C'ville and you could chop your cost further (if you were to go to UVa).


Probably, maybe I could even get more out of my family. Since UVA is ranked in the top ten, my family seems to be willing to fork out more cash for it than for USC.

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bgdddymtty
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby bgdddymtty » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:40 am

bk1 wrote:
crossingforHYS wrote:better than over 96%


Yes, the fact that only about 5-6% of USC's class gets clerkships is lower than the 10-12% that get it at UVa, that is not in dispute.

The point is that about 9 times out of 10, OP isn't going to get a clerkship even from UVa so that is a poor metric upon which to make a decision when there are other more prevalent stats upon which to make this decision (like general placement in LA).
Not doing a clerkship =/= not being able to get a clerkship. You act as if everyone at both schools is trying to get a clerkship. They're not.

EDIT: Somehow missed that there was a second page to this thread and that the point had been made numerous times before. Carry on.

Puttanesca
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby Puttanesca » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:56 pm

UVA it is! Got an increased scholarship offer from UVA, and there was no way I would pay more for USC than for UVA. So excited!!!

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BruceWayne
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:07 pm

V811 wrote:I'll be a USC incoming 1L

The right decision on simply an academic basis is easily UVA, and yes you will definitely be able to come back to LA with USC ties.

BUT -- the gap between USC and UVA employment in LA is close enough that if you prefer to stay in LA for the next 3 years you won't be missing out on some "amaaaazing" opportunities. We aren't comparing USC with CCN.

I made the lifestyle choice of wanting to stay in LA, so my decision was easy.

The choice is yours, you are in a good position either way. Let us know what you choose.


You're not going to get some big boost for going to "CCN" to work in LA over UVA. The firms will want great grades and ties from both. The only schools that are going to give you a great chance at working LA biglaw are Y and S, or H with good grades.


To the people pushing UVA because of clerkships, that's ridiculous. That's only going to matter if the OP ends up in the top 20 percent of the class--extremely unlikely. And if he does place that high in his class, going to USC probably wouldn't hurt his clerkship chances that much (at least in California).

Puttanesca wrote:UVA it is! Got an increased scholarship offer from UVA, and there was no way I would pay more for USC than for UVA. So excited!!!


Congrats!

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dailygrind
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Re: USC or UVA at equal cost for LA biglaw?

Postby dailygrind » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:56 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:UVA it is! Got an increased scholarship offer from UVA, and there was no way I would pay more for USC than for UVA. So excited!!!


Congrats!




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