mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

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doubleL
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mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby doubleL » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:28 am

Okay, so I was recently admitted to mercer of the wait-list. When I started applying to schools, it was my 1/2 choice because of their legally writing program. I was also already admitted to duquesne with a scholarship, who also demonstrates a top 10 legal writing program. I submitted both deposits there and have everything squared away. I live in pittsburgh, have for 4 years for school. I have absolutely no idea what I should do. Any advice?? I need to make a decision in about a week. I would like to do litigation and writing, so mercer seems to be the pick there. Still. Need help. Any advice would be appreciated, I am making a decision that will have major consequesnces for the rest of my entire life.

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ndirish2010
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:38 am

Neither.

doubleL
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby doubleL » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:42 am

Thanks, but not productive. Productive advice only please.

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glewz
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby glewz » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:45 am

doubleL wrote:Okay, so I was recently admitted to mercer of the wait-list. When I started applying to schools, it was my 1/2 choice because of their legally legal writing program. I was also already admitted to duquesne with a scholarship, who also demonstrates a top 10 legal writing program. I submitted both deposits there and have everything squared away. I live in pittsburgh, have for 4 years for school. I have absolutely no idea what I should do. Any advice?? I need to make a decision in about a week. I would like to do litigation and writing, so mercer seems to be the pick there. Still. Need help. Any advice would be appreciated, I am making a decision that will have major consequesnces for the rest of my entire life.


TBH, neither school gives you a good shot at firms, so you should probably take the school that is cheaper to attend. You've accounted for the scholarship money, but also make sure you factor in potential in-state tuition, housing (commute from home?), etc.

If you've only taken the LSAT 1 time or with little preparation, you should consider retaking and aiming for more substantial scholarships and/or higher ranked schools.

doubleL
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby doubleL » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:03 am

Just not gonna do that. I am really asking which school is better, of the two, and not that I should retake or aim higher.

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pinkcamellia
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby pinkcamellia » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:11 am

I can't say which one is better. They're both TTT/TTTT. You should consider where you want to live and work. I personally know 2 unemployed Mercer grads with really no hope of making it in the legal field. They're now saddled with a huge amount of student debt. I've also heard from many of their friends that Mercer was not a wise investment, given the fact that they compete with UGA, Emory, Georgia State, and other grads for positions in Georgia.

We're not suggesting you retake the test to hurt your feelings or suggest that you didn't try hard the first/second/whatever times. We're trying to help you avoid paying for three years of your life for the rest of your life.

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ndirish2010
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:22 am

doubleL wrote:Just not gonna do that. I am really asking which school is better, of the two, and not that I should retake or aim higher.


Neither of them are worth attending, short of MAYBE a full ride. Also, specialty program rankings are completely meaningless. /thread.

scammedhard
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:24 am

ndirish2010 wrote:Neither.

doubleL wrote:Thanks, but not productive. Productive advice only please.

ndirish2010's NEITHER is the most productive advice anyone could have given you. You know the labor market for lawyers is really bad. There are plenty of people from T14s struggling to find employment, and, on top of that, there is the debt issue. How are you going to service a very large debt (150K or so) without gainful employment, or any sort of employment for that matter?

You said it yourself:
I am making a decision that will have major consequesnces [sic] for the rest of my entire life.


And pinkcamellia sums up our intentions nicely (Emphasis mine):
We're not suggesting you retake the test to hurt your feelings or suggest that you didn't try hard the first/second/whatever times. We're trying to help you avoid paying for three years of your life for the rest of your life.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:41 am

I've never even heard of either one of these schools but since they both have "top 10 legal writing programs" I'll go ahead and assume that they are shitholes. I would rank your options as follows

1. retake and reapply
2. don't go at all
3. whichever school is cheaper and/or in the area you want to practice. Especially if that area doesn't have any other law schools around it.

MrAnon
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:20 am

Definitely Mercer. If you read the Emory/UGA threads you will see that the Georgia legal market is super firm right now. Plus Mercer has the very best legal writing program in the Southeast according to the rankings. I would run, not walk to Mercer.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby Bill Cosby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:22 am

Going to either of these schools at sticker is suicidal.

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Bill Cosby
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby Bill Cosby » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:23 am

MrAnon wrote:Definitely Mercer. If you read the Emory/UGA threads you will see that the Georgia legal market is super firm right now. Plus Mercer has the very best legal writing program in the Southeast according to the rankings. I would run, not walk to Mercer.


And please don't listen to this guy. The Atlanta legal market was one of the hardest hit (I think Atlanta lost more legal jobs than any other city, as a percentage).

OldManHunger
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby OldManHunger » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:00 pm

The numbers say...... you're fucked at either one. And don't say that's not productive, because you're right, this will change your life. And if you make either of these poor decisions, your life is fucked.

Mercer (LinkRemoved): 77% self-reported nine-month employment, and that's with only 48% of students responding. So just assume most of the non-respondents are functionally unemployed.

Duquesne (LinkRemoved): 77% self-reported nine-month, and 38% responding. And they're bragging (LinkRemoved) about an 84% bar passage rate, which shows that they're basically just mugging retards, taking 3 years of life and money and doing damn little to filter or prepare.
Last edited by OldManHunger on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

OldManHunger
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby OldManHunger » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:00 pm

Bill Cosby wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Definitely Mercer. If you read the Emory/UGA threads you will see that the Georgia legal market is super firm right now. Plus Mercer has the very best legal writing program in the Southeast according to the rankings. I would run, not walk to Mercer.


And please don't listen to this guy. The Atlanta legal market was one of the hardest hit (I think Atlanta lost more legal jobs than any other city, as a percentage).


I have also heard that Atlanta is currently really fucked.

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ndirish2010
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:08 pm

Yeah, if you put a gun to my head and told me I had to choose between one of these or I would be kept there for the rest of my life (aka, allowing the gun to go off was not an option), I would probably pick Duquesne because you are only competing with Pitt in the market, whereas Mercer has tons of competition in Georgia.

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mrtoren
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby mrtoren » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:23 pm

Listen, a lot of kids are going to bash TTT and TTTT schools as a complete waste of time, energy and money. I'm not going to do that to you. However, just like any other tier, there are good TTT/TTTT schools and bad TTT/TTTT schools.

TTT
University of South Carolina is a good TTT.
University of Missouri is a good TTT.
University of Mississippi is a good TTT.
University of Wyoming, Montana and Idaho are good TTT's.
Even Howard is a good TTT.

TTTT
University of South Dakota is an okay TTTT
University of North Dakota is an okay TTTT

There's a trend here. These schools tend to dominate, or at least are near the top, of their state legal markets. They are also fairly low cost for in-state students. Howard, the odd ball, is a diversity choice that draws many potential employers.

Mercer, on the other hand, is positioned as the 4th best law school out of 5 in the state. Tuition is almost $37k a year, plus another $18k in living. Duquesne is ranked 6th out of 6 law schools in its state. It costs about $32k and since they don't provide a living expense estimate, we'll use U Pitt's $16k.

Thats $55k/year at Mercer for a total of $165k in debt if you watch every penny. Lets bump up to $170k to include room for misc fees, supplies, books, etc. Duquesne is $48k/year for a total of $144k. Lets bump to $149k for the sake of wiggle room again. With your Mercer loans at 6.8% interest for 10 years, you're looking at $235k. Thats about $1900 a month. With your Duquesne loans at 6.8% interest for 10 years, you're looking at $205k and a monthly payment of about $1700. Those are numbers on a page, but thats going to be real cash out of your pocket. Thats a mortgage payment every month for ten years. With shaky employment prospects out of both schools, why would you do that to yourself? Only about 59% of the Duquesne class found a full-time job that required a J.D. and bar passage. Around 58% of Mercer's class found a full-time, J.D. and bar required job. A whopping 17% were unemployed.

I didn't see how much of a scholarship you got to Duquesne, but as others have said, you really need to aim higher. If I absolutely had to choose, it would Duquesne. However, you're putting yourself in a position to fail. Specialty rankings mean nothing, they're the trophy for the fat kid who participated. You need to evaluate where you are today, where you'll be in the near future, and where you'll probably end up down the road. This is a life altering decision that shouldn't be made by plugging your ears and shouting "NO! NO! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! NO!" Its time to demonstrate maturity and recognize that these schools are both questionable avenues to take on the road to becoming a lawyer.

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ndirish2010
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:53 pm

It's questionable to label Howard as a TTT based on their employment figures.

scammedhard
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:04 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:It's questionable to label Howard as a TTT based on their employment figures.

Maybe it is, maybe it is not. What really matters is that "mrtoren" made an excellent argument, and we should really focus on his main point: "Its [sic] time to demonstrate maturity and recognize that these schools are both questionable avenues to take on the road to becoming a lawyer."

scammedhard
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:07 pm

Bill Cosby wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Definitely Mercer. If you read the Emory/UGA threads you will see that the Georgia legal market is super firm right now. Plus Mercer has the very best legal writing program in the Southeast according to the rankings. I would run, not walk to Mercer.


And please don't listen to this guy. The Atlanta legal market was one of the hardest hit (I think Atlanta lost more legal jobs than any other city, as a percentage).

MrAnon was just trying to be sarcastic. He (?) routinely provides sound advice.

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Verity
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby Verity » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:08 pm

I've never posted a /killself, but seriously this is dumb. Telling you to go to either would be like delivering a stack of pizzas to Brookhaven Obesity Clinic.

scammedhard
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:14 pm

Verity wrote:I've never posted a /killself, but seriously this is dumb. Telling you to go to either would be like delivering a stack of pizzas to Brookhaven Obesity Clinic.

And guess what? There are thousand and thousands of kids going to TTTs year after year; and I am sure there are also lots of pizza deliveries to the Brookhaven Obesity Clinic.

MrAnon
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:15 pm

OldManHunger wrote:
Bill Cosby wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Definitely Mercer. If you read the Emory/UGA threads you will see that the Georgia legal market is super firm right now. Plus Mercer has the very best legal writing program in the Southeast according to the rankings. I would run, not walk to Mercer.


And please don't listen to this guy. The Atlanta legal market was one of the hardest hit (I think Atlanta lost more legal jobs than any other city, as a percentage).


I have also heard that Atlanta is currently really fucked.


This is outrageous. Please just go look at the experiences of the Emory students! Atlanta is a hotbed of legal industry hiring! Other Georgia cities offer tremendous opportunity as well. Have you ever been to Savannah?

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Verity
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby Verity » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:15 pm

scammedhard wrote:
Verity wrote:I've never posted a /killself, but seriously this is dumb. Telling you to go to either would be like delivering a stack of pizzas to Brookhaven Obesity Clinic.

And guess what? There are thousand and thousands of kids going to TTTs year after year; and I am sure there are also lots of pizza deliveries to the Brookhaven Obesity Clinic.


Outstanding.

MrAnon
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:16 pm

do NOT listen to these haters. Your success at either of these schools depends on one thing: YOU. And your attitude. People from these schools can and do get biglaw. The alumni networks are also tremendous.

scammedhard
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Re: mercer vs. duquesne HELPPP me

Postby scammedhard » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:18 pm

MrAnon wrote:This is outrageous. Please just go look at the experiences of the Emory students! Atlanta is a hotbed of legal industry hiring! Other Georgia cities offer tremendous opportunity as well. Have you ever been to Savannah?

I just tried to defend your previous comments. You should stop. Someone might actually misinterpret you and make a terrible decision because of it.




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