Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

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BU ($) or NU

Poll ended at Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:08 pm

BU ($)
27
57%
NU (Sticker)
20
43%
 
Total votes: 47

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Horsefeathers
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:55 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Horsefeathers wrote:
Alright, that's good to know. I believe that BU is placing about 30% in big law at this point. Not sure about other employment info though (I really need to know more about this!)


Are you getting that from people there, or from NLJ data. Because NLJ data is severally outdated because it lags the market by almost three years.


BU people. But if any BU people know better, please correct me.

09042014
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:57 pm

That's pretty good. If you are set on Boston, BU is probably a decent choice.

kaiser
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby kaiser » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:04 pm

Given that you want to be in Boston, are debt-averse, and BU will cost you 80K less, I'd say the scales tip in BU's favor. Even in rough years, BU is still placing nearly 1/3 of its students into NLJ250 firms and had one of the lowest drops in that department of any school in the past few years. Thats what I would choose.

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Verity
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Verity » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:07 pm

Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby kaiser » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:08 pm

Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


Its what I call the 0L factor. Its something you have to account for whenever you make a poll like this. There are a large contingent of people who just blindly pick the higher ranked school with little to no consideration for debt, preferences, etc.

09042014
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:08 pm

kaiser wrote:Given that you want to be in Boston, are debt-averse, and BU will cost you 80K less, I'd say the scales tip in BU's favor. Even in rough years, BU is still placing nearly 1/3 of its students into NLJ250 firms and had one of the lowest drops in that department of any school in the past few years. Thats what I would choose.


The rough years haven't showed up in NLJ data yet.

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bk1
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:09 pm

Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


I doubt they're fucking with the OP. This happens in a lot of polls due to lurkers casting votes without reading very carefully. Or people who are T14 or bust throwing their vote in as well. Or just people who aren't very well versed (aka uninformed 0Ls). I also think that because the vast majority of response have been for BU that people who think NU is the right call are less likely to stand up for it (especially if they primarily lurk).

09042014
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:09 pm

Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


The choice isn't that lopsided, so I doubt people are trolling.

BU has about half the chance of getting OP a good job compared to NU. Is that worth 80K? Probably not. But it's a tough choice.

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Verity
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Verity » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:12 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


The choice isn't that lopsided, so I doubt people are trolling.

BU has about half the chance of getting OP a good job compared to NU. Is that worth 80K? Probably not. But it's a tough choice.


Yeah, if OP didn't mention debt-averse, I might have voted NU for long-term prospects, alumni & mobility.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby kaiser » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


The choice isn't that lopsided, so I doubt people are trolling.

BU has about half the chance of getting OP a good job compared to NU. Is that worth 80K? Probably not. But it's a tough choice.


There are a number of very solid Boston firms that aren't NLJ250. Plus, NLJ250 isn't the exclusive list of "good jobs".

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:17 pm

kaiser wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


The choice isn't that lopsided, so I doubt people are trolling.

BU has about half the chance of getting OP a good job compared to NU. Is that worth 80K? Probably not. But it's a tough choice.


There are a number of very solid Boston firms that aren't NLJ250. Plus, NLJ250 isn't the exclusive list of "good jobs".


I'm not sure if you're at BU or not, but do you have a sense of how above median non biglaw bu students are faring?

09042014
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:20 pm

kaiser wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Verity wrote:Most of the people who voted NU aren't posting. I'm thinking they're just f-ing with OP.


The choice isn't that lopsided, so I doubt people are trolling.

BU has about half the chance of getting OP a good job compared to NU. Is that worth 80K? Probably not. But it's a tough choice.


There are a number of very solid Boston firms that aren't NLJ250. Plus, NLJ250 isn't the exclusive list of "good jobs".


And 30% was for people who OCI'd before the crash happened. So it is inflated.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby duckmoney » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:23 pm

I say NU. If you want Boston, your ties will get you back there since NU has a national name, and could actually benefit you since firms almost always prefer T14 with ties over local T1.

Regarding the debt: Both 130k and 210k are completely outrageous amounts of debt. You have 3 options for repayment:

1) Biglaw. You'll be able to foot the debt either way, and the difference in monthly payment will be insurance for going to a school that gives a much higher chance of biglaw (NU).
2) LRAP. NU has a better LRAP and arguably more placing power in PI organizations.
3) Shitlaw. Enroll in IBR and you're fucked either way. Chance of this option is much higher at BU than NU.

If the difference were between say, 50k and 130k, this might be a different story. But as it is go with NU.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:29 pm

duckmoney wrote:I say NU. If you want Boston, your ties will get you back there since NU has a national name, and could actually benefit you since firms almost always prefer T14 with ties over local T1.

Regarding the debt: Both 130k and 210k are completely outrageous amounts of debt. You have 3 options for repayment:

1) Biglaw. You'll be able to foot the debt either way, and the difference in monthly payment will be insurance for going to a school that gives a much higher chance of biglaw (NU).
2) LRAP. NU has a better LRAP and arguably more placing power in PI organizations.
3) Shitlaw. Enroll in IBR and you're fucked either way. Chance of this option is much higher at BU than NU.

If the difference were between say, 50k and 130k, this might be a different story. But as it is go with NU.


Generally agree with your reasoning - but what makes you so sure that Shitlaw probability is so much higher than BU. It's not exactly TTT city?

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bk1
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:30 pm

Horsefeathers wrote:Generally agree with your reasoning - but what makes you so sure that Shitlaw probability is so much higher than BU. It's not exactly TTT city?


By shitlaw he means the lower mode of legal salaries and that is a very real possibility coming out of both BU and NU (though it is more likely at BU).

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby duckmoney » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:33 pm

Horsefeathers wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I say NU. If you want Boston, your ties will get you back there since NU has a national name, and could actually benefit you since firms almost always prefer T14 with ties over local T1.

Regarding the debt: Both 130k and 210k are completely outrageous amounts of debt. You have 3 options for repayment:

1) Biglaw. You'll be able to foot the debt either way, and the difference in monthly payment will be insurance for going to a school that gives a much higher chance of biglaw (NU).
2) LRAP. NU has a better LRAP and arguably more placing power in PI organizations.
3) Shitlaw. Enroll in IBR and you're fucked either way. Chance of this option is much higher at BU than NU.

If the difference were between say, 50k and 130k, this might be a different story. But as it is go with NU.


Generally agree with your reasoning - but what makes you so sure that Shitlaw probability is so much higher than BU. It's not exactly TTT city?


True, it's a hell of a lot better than Thomas Jefferson, but ITE it's no guarantee of a solid job. Note the relative size of the big gray boxes:

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

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Horsefeathers
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:34 pm

bk1 wrote:
Horsefeathers wrote:Generally agree with your reasoning - but what makes you so sure that Shitlaw probability is so much higher than BU. It's not exactly TTT city?


By shitlaw he means the lower mode of legal salaries and that is a very real possibility coming out of both BU and NU (though it is more likely at BU).


I understand that, but my question is whether anybody has seen data to support this, or whether it's just a safe conclusion, when specifically looking at BU (and not just comparing generic T1 with generic T14).

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Horsefeathers
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:35 pm

duckmoney wrote:
Horsefeathers wrote:
duckmoney wrote:I say NU. If you want Boston, your ties will get you back there since NU has a national name, and could actually benefit you since firms almost always prefer T14 with ties over local T1.

Regarding the debt: Both 130k and 210k are completely outrageous amounts of debt. You have 3 options for repayment:

1) Biglaw. You'll be able to foot the debt either way, and the difference in monthly payment will be insurance for going to a school that gives a much higher chance of biglaw (NU).
2) LRAP. NU has a better LRAP and arguably more placing power in PI organizations.
3) Shitlaw. Enroll in IBR and you're fucked either way. Chance of this option is much higher at BU than NU.

If the difference were between say, 50k and 130k, this might be a different story. But as it is go with NU.


Generally agree with your reasoning - but what makes you so sure that Shitlaw probability is so much higher than BU. It's not exactly TTT city?


True, it's a hell of a lot better than Thomas Jefferson, but ITE it's no guarantee of a solid job. Note the relative size of the big gray boxes:

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--


Good answer.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:37 pm

Horsefeathers wrote:I understand that, but my question is whether anybody has seen data to support this, or whether it's just a safe conclusion, when specifically looking at BU (and not just comparing generic T1 with generic T14).


It's a safe conclusion when looking at pretty much any law school. There are smalllaw firms everywhere.

ETA: I realize this isn't BU, but if you look at NU's 2010 data (http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/statistics/) you can see that if you add up those making 60k or less, those who didn't report their salary (they probably aren't making much), and those without jobs that accounts for roughly 35% or so of the class.
Last edited by bk1 on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:43 pm

I'd go with NU. Significantly better overall prospects (biglaw, clerkships, etc.) trumps 80k in debt, especially for someone who doesn't seem to inclined to go into biglaw in the first place. it isn't like 130k is that manageable on a pi salary, although it is likely more manageable than 210k. if OP is serious about pi/government, then i think debt shouldn't be a factor given LRAP/IBR.

Again, while Boston is insular, I don't think they are insular for top candidates. all things being equal, i would imagine most employers would hire the NU candidate over the BU candidate, especially if OP has legitimate ties to Boston.

Main issue I see with BU is that it over performs in biglaw relative to its other placement, i.e. while it sends a good portion of its grads into biglaw, the non-biglaw grads have significantly worse prospects. i don't think this is the case at NU. Again, last year BU had 17% of its students working in "academia," which obviously is 17% working at a law school created fellowship simply to pump up its USNews statistics. That is practically 1 in 6 students...which is just awful for a T20 school. Given that OP has other options, I think it makes sense to go a different route.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:46 pm

alumniguy wrote:I'd go with NU. Significantly better overall prospects (biglaw, clerkships, etc.) trumps 80k in debt, especially for someone who doesn't seem to inclined to go into biglaw in the first place. it isn't like 130k is that manageable on a pi salary, although it is likely more manageable than 210k. if OP is serious about pi/government, then i think debt shouldn't be a factor given LRAP/IBR.

Again, while Boston is insular, I don't think they are insular for top candidates. all things being equal, i would imagine most employers would hire the NU candidate over the BU candidate, especially if OP has legitimate ties to Boston.

Main issue I see with BU is that it over performs in biglaw relative to its other placement, i.e. while it sends a good portion of its grads into biglaw, the non-biglaw grads have significantly worse prospects. i don't think this is the case at NU. Again, last year BU had 17% of its students working in "academia," which obviously is 17% working at a law school created fellowship simply to pump up its USNews statistics. That is practically 1 in 6 students...which is just awful for a T20 school. Given that OP has other options, I think it makes sense to go a different route.


Interesting...can anybody vouch for the faux-academia?
Solid points. Being swung by the consistent point that neither 130 nor 210 is a reasonable amount of debt.

alumniguy
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:47 pm

BU's webpage provides the information itself...notice the footprint.

http://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/careers/jd/work.html

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Horsefeathers
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby Horsefeathers » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:48 pm

alumniguy wrote:BU's webpage provides the information itself...notice the footprint.

http://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/careers/jd/work.html


Good scoop. :D

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bk1
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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby bk1 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:49 pm

alumniguy wrote:That is practically 1 in 6 students...which is just awful for a T20 school.


The bolded is hyperbolic in the extreme. For a strong regional school, BU places about as well other strong regional schools. Yes, it did a bit worse than BC but not so much so that it is somehow awful in comparison.

I'm not justifying BU doing this to fudge its numbers, but it is something that schools do and since their employment stats once this is accounted for are pretty run of the mill for a school of its caliber I don't see this as a reason to slam the school.

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Re: Help me decide! BU ($) or NU ---- MUST DECIDE TODAY!

Postby alumniguy » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:51 pm

OP - can't you just plop down the deposit and think about it for a few more days...I understand that $500 or whatever it must be is a decent chunk of money, but in the long run it really isn't that much. You definitely want piece of mind thinking about this. Moreover, I find it hard to believe that BU won't give you a few more days...they obviously want you to matriculate and are even offering money.




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