HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

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School?

Ucla would cost me 90k
49
72%
UVA sticker
19
28%
 
Total votes: 68

confusednddazed
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HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby confusednddazed » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:03 pm

I want to work in Socal
want to clerk or go into academia
uva---sticker (already put a deposit, have a lease etc.)
UCLA---90k

advice please???? have to choose tomorrow.

edit: poll
Last edited by confusednddazed on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Wade LeBosh » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:10 pm

confusednddazed wrote:I want to work in Socal
want to clerk or go into academia
uva---sticker (already put a deposit, have a lease etc.)
UCLA---90k

advice please???? have to choose tomorrow.


If you're sure you wanna stay in SoCal take the money and go to UCLA. Good luck getting into academia though. You should make this a poll btw.

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bk1
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:11 pm

Neither will give you a good shot at clerking or academia.

Take UCLA since it is by far cheaper and places better in the area that you want to be.

ajr
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby ajr » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:12 pm

UCLA. Rules SoCal.

confusednddazed
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby confusednddazed » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:18 pm

but wouldnt I have a better schot at UVA for clerking and academia since they place well (4 scotus...when was the last time ucla had a scotus?)

plus I could be a visiting 3L later right?

I just really like the first amendment bent of uva and people tell me it's better......but you all are saying it's the same relativly if I want socal?

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Helmholtz
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:23 pm

confusednddazed wrote:but wouldnt I have a better schot at UVA for clerking and academia since they place well (4 scotus...when was the last time ucla had a scotus?)

plus I could be a visiting 3L later right?

I just really like the first amendment bent of uva and people tell me it's better......but you all are saying it's the same relativly if I want socal?


You probably shouldn't be choosing based upon the fact that School X sent four people to SCOTUS to clerk, while School Y sent none. The same probably goes for big-time clerkships and academia—the chances are incredibly good that you'll never even get the opportunity to be in running for this type of stuff, whether you go to UVA or UCLA. You're essentially making a choice based upon a 3% chance as opposed to a 1% chance. You need to be looking at the 97% and 99%, not the other way around.

(also, it's kind of insulting to your future classmates)

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:25 pm

wait, UCLA would "cost you" 90k? Or that's how big your scholarship is? (or both I guess?)

confusednddazed
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby confusednddazed » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:27 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
confusednddazed wrote:but wouldnt I have a better schot at UVA for clerking and academia since they place well (4 scotus...when was the last time ucla had a scotus?)

plus I could be a visiting 3L later right?

I just really like the first amendment bent of uva and people tell me it's better......but you all are saying it's the same relativly if I want socal?


You probably shouldn't be choosing based upon the fact that School X sent four people to SCOTUS to clerk, while School Y sent none. The same probably goes for big-time clerkships and academia—the chances are incredibly good that you'll never even get the opportunity to be in running for this type of stuff, whether you go to UVA or UCLA. You're essentially making a choice based upon a 3% chance as opposed to a 1% chance. You need to be looking at the 97% and 99%, not the other way around.

(also, it's kind of insulting to your future classmates)

true--and I don't mean too.

I just have a better connection with UVA--even though everything is going against it (re my family is here, my opportunities are here) I just like it more, but is that worth 100 grand?

scholly: ucla would cost me 90k. I live in socal so I wouldnt have to take any loans for living expenses. so just tuition minus a 20k scholly.

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Wade LeBosh
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Wade LeBosh » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:28 pm

confusednddazed wrote:but wouldnt I have a better schot at UVA for clerking and academia since they place well (4 scotus...when was the last time ucla had a scotus?)

plus I could be a visiting 3L later right?

I just really like the first amendment bent of uva and people tell me it's better......but you all are saying it's the same relativly if I want socal?


It's not the same because you'll save a lot of money at UCLA and I believe they place better in SoCal than UVA. SCOTUS clerkships aren't a valid reason to go to UVA, you have no idea if you'll even have the grades after 1L to clerk. It's really really really hard to get into academia if you aren't from T6 (only really really hard if you are). What do you mean by the "first amendment bent"?

confusednddazed
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby confusednddazed » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Wade LeBosh wrote:
confusednddazed wrote:but wouldnt I have a better schot at UVA for clerking and academia since they place well (4 scotus...when was the last time ucla had a scotus?)

plus I could be a visiting 3L later right?

I just really like the first amendment bent of uva and people tell me it's better......but you all are saying it's the same relativly if I want socal?


It's not the same because you'll save a lot of money at UCLA and I believe they place better in SoCal than UVA. SCOTUS clerkships aren't a valid reason to go to UVA, you have no idea if you'll even have the grades after 1L to clerk. It's really really really hard to get into academia if you aren't from T6 (only really really hard if you are). What do you mean by the "first amendment bent"?


They have a first amendment clinic and they allow you to do moot court first year. plus their lrw is pass no pass which is huge for me and finally you get to do electives your second semester which is huge for me so I can get rid of evidence.

Will my chances to get back to socal be good as well? will it open up the same exact opportunities for me? or will uva open more? there has to be some difference right....?

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Helmholtz
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:33 pm

confusednddazed wrote:true--and I don't mean too.

I just have a better connection with UVA--even though everything is going against it (re my family is here, my opportunities are here) I just like it more, but is that worth 100 grand?

scholly: ucla would cost me 90k. I live in socal so I wouldnt have to take any loans for living expenses. so just tuition minus a 20k scholly.


I'm not that familiar with how well UVA carries to SoCal provided the person has pre–law-school ties to the area. My guess is that UCLA would be the best choice—$100,000 is a hell of a lot of money. Plug that into a loan calculator and see how much more you would be paying every month for a decade . It might make UVA a little less appealing when you realize that an extra $1200-ish will be leaving your pocket every month for ten years.

confusednddazed
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby confusednddazed » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:49 pm

any replies for those loving uva on the poll?

I have ties to california so I think I can menagle myself back. I do have my SO here, so it will be hard leaving him (6 years) and I have my family.....but that may be a distraction staying at UCLA. The flights to uva from socal are hell, but I can handle them .....I am so confused.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby paulinaporizkova » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
confusednddazed wrote:true--and I don't mean too.

I just have a better connection with UVA--even though everything is going against it (re my family is here, my opportunities are here) I just like it more, but is that worth 100 grand?

scholly: ucla would cost me 90k. I live in socal so I wouldnt have to take any loans for living expenses. so just tuition minus a 20k scholly.


I'm not that familiar with how well UVA carries to SoCal provided the person has pre–law-school ties to the area. My guess is that UCLA would be the best choice—$100,000 is a hell of a lot of money. Plug that into a loan calculator and see how much more you would be paying every month for a decade . It might make UVA a little less appealing when you realize that an extra $1200-ish will be leaving your pocket every month for ten years.


That's credited Helm. But I would add this aspect in since I have been grappling with it myself after turning down a huge scholly at UMN, my home market - SoCal firms might see someone who went to UVa (with ties to SoCal) as more desirable than just another run of the mill UCLA student since firms/employers are often looking to diversify and I'd guess the lion's share of associates/other legal employees in SoCal are from UCLA/USC/SLS/Cal. They probably don't get AS MANY people who went to school on the east coast looking at their firms so they'd look more fondly upon the OP because of that. On the other hand, this could be different from my UMN case, since lots of people want to be in SoCal no matter where they're from or went to school, and probably less people are dying to get to Minnesota :)

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Helmholtz
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:56 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
confusednddazed wrote:true--and I don't mean too.

I just have a better connection with UVA--even though everything is going against it (re my family is here, my opportunities are here) I just like it more, but is that worth 100 grand?

scholly: ucla would cost me 90k. I live in socal so I wouldnt have to take any loans for living expenses. so just tuition minus a 20k scholly.


I'm not that familiar with how well UVA carries to SoCal provided the person has pre–law-school ties to the area. My guess is that UCLA would be the best choice—$100,000 is a hell of a lot of money. Plug that into a loan calculator and see how much more you would be paying every month for a decade . It might make UVA a little less appealing when you realize that an extra $1200-ish will be leaving your pocket every month for ten years.


SoCal firms might see someone who went to UVa (with ties to SoCal) as more desirable than just another run of the mill UCLA student since firms/employers are often looking to diversify and I'd guess the lion's share of associates/other legal employees in SoCal are from UCLA/USC/SLS/Cal.


This is true and I think, in the end, sort of unanswerable since there really is no hard data to support either side (so many problems with self-selection, etc., etc.). On one hand, you add diversity to the incoming class of associates, on the other hand, you don't have the much stronger home alumni network. However, SoCal seems to be more insular than other markets, and I'm wondering whether alumni network > diversity, in this instance. But I really can't say for certain.

CanadianWolf
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:57 pm

OP: You have received good advice, but it is still your decision. Either way, expect to experience some buyer's remorse--which shows how good your options are. Congratulations !

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itsirtou
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby itsirtou » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:59 pm

I had the exact same choice to make (UVa at sticker v. UCLA with about half tuition), but the reasonI chose UVa is because I want to do either public interest or government work in DC. If I'd wanted to do entertainment law or work in SoCal, I would have chosen UCLA hands-down.

(UVa is awesome, so it's hard for me not to push it, but I'd take UCLA if I were you, I think.)

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itsirtou
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby itsirtou » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:00 pm

(I will note that UVa does have a few LA firms coming to interview for OGI, but -- from what I can tell with a quick skim -- nowhere near the numbers of firms it has coming from NY or DC.)

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dailygrind
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby dailygrind » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:05 pm

I want to pull for UVA since it's my own school and all that, but the price differential is staggering and if I wanted to stay in SoCal, I'd probably have to choose UCLA. That said, I'd say it's a good guess that more people at UCLA end up getting NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw (the SoCal market being kinda rough), so if you consider the fact that you may not end up in SoCal either way, it's worth noting that UVA probably has better backup options than UCLA.

ETA: even considering potentially superior NYC placement, though, 100 grand is a whole lotta money.

confusednddazed
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby confusednddazed » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:16 pm

itsirtou wrote:(I will note that UVa does have a few LA firms coming to interview for OGI, but -- from what I can tell with a quick skim -- nowhere near the numbers of firms it has coming from NY or DC.)

But I would only want to work for a large LA firm (gibson) or another firm with an appellate practice, otherwise I want to work for the government or do PI or clerk.

oh god this decision is painful...b/c I can always change what I want to do with my life once in law school and I don't want it to haunt me later.

money or the chance for more opportunities down the line?

UCLAtransfer
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby UCLAtransfer » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:31 pm

dailygrind wrote:That said, I'd say it's a good guess that more people at UCLA end up getting NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw (the SoCal market being kinda rough), so if you consider the fact that you may not end up in SoCal either way, it's worth noting that UVA probably has better backup options than UCLA.


More people at UCLA get NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw?

Really?

Sorry, but not even close. Your statement about UVA having better backup options is probably true, but if you are getting biglaw out of UCLA (e.g., if you are top 30-40%), it's overwhelmingly going to be in Southern California.

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dailygrind
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby dailygrind » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:43 pm

UCLAtransfer wrote:
dailygrind wrote:That said, I'd say it's a good guess that more people at UCLA end up getting NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw (the SoCal market being kinda rough), so if you consider the fact that you may not end up in SoCal either way, it's worth noting that UVA probably has better backup options than UCLA.


More people at UCLA get NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw?

Really?

Sorry, but not even close. Your statement about UVA having better backup options is probably true, but if you are getting biglaw out of UCLA (e.g., if you are top 30-40%), it's overwhelmingly going to be in Southern California.


My bad, I read somewhere else that it might be otherwise, but if someone from UCLA wants to come and tell me that I'm wrong, I'll defer to your judgment.

fingersxd
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby fingersxd » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:20 pm

I think UCLA is TCR here. That would be a ton of money to turn down, esp. if you plan to go back to socal anyway. UVA is an amazing school, but if all you want it for is clerkship or academia, there is an parenting overwhelming likelihood that you woll be disappointed.

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ahduth
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby ahduth » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:25 pm

UCLAtransfer wrote:
dailygrind wrote:That said, I'd say it's a good guess that more people at UCLA end up getting NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw (the SoCal market being kinda rough), so if you consider the fact that you may not end up in SoCal either way, it's worth noting that UVA probably has better backup options than UCLA.


More people at UCLA get NYC biglaw than SoCal biglaw?

Really?

Sorry, but not even close. Your statement about UVA having better backup options is probably true, but if you are getting biglaw out of UCLA (e.g., if you are top 30-40%), it's overwhelmingly going to be in Southern California.


The person wants a job right? I voted UCLA, but then I read your post. In the end doesn't UVA get him a job more easily than UCLA? Some of us have to leave paradise at some point.

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Sounder89
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Sounder89 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:47 pm

If you are pretty sure you want to work in SoCal, then UCLA hands down.

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: HELP!!!! UVA vs. UCLA

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:37 am

Don't factor clerking or academia chances into your decision. Your chances are tiny coming from either school, so that would be a bad deciding factor.

It's a tough situation. UVA does give you more backup options and access to legal markets that aren't as crappy as SoCal. Additionally, if your plan B is government work, keep in mind that, with California's budget problems, it might be difficult to find an agency that's hiring.

On the other hand, UCLA is a ton less debt, to the point that it would probably be manageable even if you didn't make biglaw. And being in SoCal during law school will give you more opportunities for networking and internships in the area you eventually hope to end up in.

I lean (slightly) toward UCLA in your situation, but you're not going to be screwed either way.




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